Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

micar · 01-07-2020 6:33pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I'm talking about stretches of road like this, where there is a cycle lane and also a bus lane.

I never said anything about coming to an immediate stop.

This is what we are talking about

https://twitter.com/HughManning/status/1230155661398487040?s=19

Hurrache · 01-07-2020 6:38pm

Based on what the poster has been saying, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that was him driving. It's a dick move that fits in exactly what this guy describes.

Casey78 · 01-07-2020 6:42pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150834-road-deaths-eu/

I guess Greece is the place to go if you want to cycle, surprised The Netherlands and Denmark are so high for cyclists deaths considering how they are famed for their cycling infrastructure, especially in the Netherlands. Yes there is a higher percentage of people cycling but I assumed it would also be a safer place to cycle because of all the brilliant cycling infrastructure.

Anyway it's good to see Ireland as one of the safest countries in Europe even if one death is too many of course.

Better Than Christ · 01-07-2020 6:44pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I did. Perhaps you reply to what I actually said

It's irrelevant because I don't do it. Here's what I do when I get stuck behind a bike on a road like the Stillorgan dual carriageway and it's possible to safely overtake - I indicate, fully change lanes when it's safe to do so, and when I've cleared the obstacle, I indicate again and pull back in. Having already completed the overtake (i.e. I am now in front of the bike), I indicate again and pull in at the bus stop further down the road. I accept that it must be very annoying for the cyclist, but it's perfectly legal, just like cycling in a bus lane.

Hurrache wrote:

It's bad when you refer to the N11 cycle 'lane' as a back up to your argument.

The bus lane is no better. Full of potholes and as you can see here, nowhere near wide enough for moving buses.

Based on what the poster has been saying, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if that was him driving. It's a dick move that fits in exactly what this guy describes.

Nope. That driver didn't give enough space while overtaking in the first place, and was already on the brakes before clearing the cyclist. I always make sure I'm well in front before stopping. I've never had any complaints either.

Hurrache · 01-07-2020 6:50pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

The bus lane is no better.

Ah it is when you're on a bike, the token cycle lane is like a rollercoaster with all the ups and downs.

There's always a tweet...
https://twitter.com/BicesterBug/status/1278022669754085377

LeinsterDub · 01-07-2020 6:50pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

It's irrelevant because I don't do it. Here's what I do when I get stuck behind a bike on a road like the Stillorgan dual carriageway and it's possible to safely overtake - I indicate, fully change lanes when it's safe to do so, and when I've cleared the obstacle, I indicate again and pull back in. Having already completed the overtake (i.e. I am now in front of the bike), I indicate again and pull in at the bus stop further down the road. I accept that it must be very annoying for the cyclist, but it's perfectly legal, just like cycling in a bus lane.

Why would that be annoying? I'm able to share the road.

Better Than Christ · 01-07-2020 7:00pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Why would that be annoying? I'm able to share the road.

I would've thought losing momentum and having to start all over again was annoying. That's why, on roads where there is no bus or cycle lane, I tend to stay behind the cyclist, regardless of whether or not there is an opportunity to safely overtake. This road (along with its state-of-the-art cycle lane) on the 145/155 route between Bray and Shankill is a good example of that.

LeinsterDub · 01-07-2020 7:04pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

I would've thought losing momentum and having to start all over again was annoying. That's why, on roads where there is no bus or cycle lane, I tend to stay behind the cyclist, regardless of whether or not there is an opportunity to safely overtake. This road (along with its state-of-the-art cycle lane) on the 145/155 route between Bray and Shankill is a good example of that.

There's always a car or a bus or a red light coming up. The vast majority of cyclist are aware they aren't in the tour de France.

TaurenDruid · 01-07-2020 7:10pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Ah it is when you're on a bike, the token cycle lane is like a rollercoaster with all the ups and downs.

There's always a tweet...
https://twitter.com/BicesterBug/status/1278022669754085377

What county is Bicester in?

Better Than Christ · 01-07-2020 7:11pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There's always a car or a bus or a red light coming up. The vast majority of cyclist are aware they aren't in the tour de France.

I think it's also fair to say that the vast majority don't use bus lanes when there's a cycle lane (albeit usually a very poor one) provided. Or at least they move aside as soon as they can when there's a bus behind them. The only ones I've ever had problems with are the male ones who dress like they're in the Tour de France.

Better Than Christ · 01-07-2020 7:15pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

What county is Bicester in?

They're arguably even worse in this country. This one on Leopardstown Rd in Dublin always strikes me as being particularly unusable.

LeinsterDub · 01-07-2020 7:15pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

What county is Bicester in?

Wow a great and in depth dismantling of their point

07Lapierre · 01-07-2020 7:40pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I must actually find out how this multiquote thing works at some point.

But:

Yes, I mean that cycle lane, Andy and magic.

I know you may find this hard to believe, Andy, but just because a vehicle is photographed somewhere, it doesn't get frozen in place! There were no lorries, trucks, vans, cars, helicopters, jeeps, roadworks, pathworks or anything else blocking the cycle lane.

There were no pedestrians.

There were a couple of other cyclists.

It did look a little like that guy, as it happens.

There are traffic lights at the top, and a cyclist can see them, and can tell when it's safe to enter the road. Which is just before the lights, so if he's going to get hit by left-turning traffic (inbound) that traffic is already taking out any pedestrians at the crossing, and the traffic light, and if it's right-turning traffic (outbound) then they have a filter light.

It's not a terrible design, in other words.

The one at Lombard Street is - I dunno wtf they were thinking with that.

I don't think anyone came back about to my question about how come the lobby/activist groups aren't actively invited to be involved in design decisions. It hopefully isn't that they never got invited back after being so incredibly negative about everything... "You're giving us a segregated cycle lane, separated from the traffic by a wall, but sometimes people might step on it or have to make deliveries? YOU MONSTERS!"

Your right... it’s not a terrible design. ITS JUST PAINT! On a pavement that was already there. There is no design at all. The fact that you think this lane is “perfectly fine” shows just how little you know about commuting by bike.

pleasant Co. · 01-07-2020 8:05pm

I just use the road / bus & cycle lane, I will not use any of those insanely planned cycle obstacle courses tacked onto pavements that suddenly become parking spots, because of reasons.

AndrewJRenko · 01-07-2020 8:41pm

TaurenDruid wrote: »

No, I've been told I'm very acute rather than obtuse.

Pretty sure I said all parks in Dublin run/managed by DCC, seeing as we were referring to their bye-laws. Pretty sure I also said this wouldn't apply to the Phoenix Park as it's run by the OPW.

The signage exists. There are big circles with the number 10 inside the circles, and they're painted wherever there's a picture of a bicycle painted on a cycle track. You can't miss them. Please don't accuse me of being a liar, ok?

I'm honestly not sure if the limit you mention applies to cyclists. The bye-law linked to by others refer to vehicles, so that's obviously nothing to do with cyclists. It sounds like the signage on the ground may well refer to that bye-law rather than to cyclists.

Having said that, it's clearly not a good idea to be speeding through a park on a bike. I recall one guy in Marlay Park on one of the evenings during March or April who was really pushing it - on his own, no kids, and going swiftly down busy pathways - no smart at all.

tnegun · 01-07-2020 8:49pm

Hurrache wrote: »

Ah it is when you're on a bike, the token cycle lane is like a rollercoaster with all the ups and downs.

There's always a tweet...
https://twitter.com/BicesterBug/status/1278022669754085377

The cycle lanes along the N4 from Leixlip to M50 are just like that unbelievably poor surface for whats a dedicated and reasonably new lane. I've changed my routes to avoid them almost completely now as they're so poor and I was fed up getting abuse in the shared(Sign posted as such) bus/cycle lane. On a positive note I passed today and I did see the council out with a proper sweeper and couple of guys cleaning the lane something I never saw in 2/3 years of using them.

ewc78 · 01-07-2020 8:59pm

Casey78 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150834-road-deaths-eu/

I guess Greece is the place to go if you want to cycle, surprised The Netherlands and Denmark are so high for cyclists deaths considering how they are famed for their cycling infrastructure, especially in the Netherlands. Yes there is a higher percentage of people cycling but I assumed it would also be a safer place to cycle because of all the brilliant cycling infrastructure.

Anyway it's good to see Ireland as one of the safest countries in Europe even if one death is too many of course.

Interesting statistics indeed.

dashcamdanny · 01-07-2020 9:08pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

It's irrelevant because I don't do it. Here's what I do when I get stuck behind a bike on a road like the Stillorgan dual carriageway and it's possible to safely overtake - I indicate, fully change lanes when it's safe to do so, and when I've cleared the obstacle, I indicate again and pull back in. Having already completed the overtake (i.e. I am now in front of the bike), I indicate again and pull in at the bus stop further down the road. I accept that it must be very annoying for the cyclist, but it's perfectly legal, just like cycling in a bus lane.

The bus lane is no better. Full of potholes and as you can see here, nowhere near wide enough for moving buses.

Nope. That driver didn't give enough space while overtaking in the first place, and was already on the brakes before clearing the cyclist. I always make sure I'm well in front before stopping. I've never had any complaints either.

Why are you even arguing with this lot.

If you can get in , in front of them without them hitting you, Stick her into the bus stop.. Let them deal with you instead of the other way around.

I like to keep a least 10 behind me at all times.

They are traffic. Treat them as such. They have brakes.

You are perfectly legally allowed to clearly indicate and pull in, as long as you are in front.

AndrewJRenko · 01-07-2020 9:09pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

You are perfectly legally allowed to clearly indicate and pull in, as long as you are in front.

Please take some driving lessons before you get behind the wheel again Danny.

inforfun · 01-07-2020 9:12pm

Casey78 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150834-road-deaths-eu/

I guess Greece is the place to go if you want to cycle, surprised The Netherlands and Denmark are so high for cyclists deaths considering how they are famed for their cycling infrastructure, especially in the Netherlands. Yes there is a higher percentage of people cycling but I assumed it would also be a safer place to cycle because of all the brilliant cycling infrastructure.

Anyway it's good to see Ireland as one of the safest countries in Europe even if one death is too many of course.

In general, the cycling infrastructure is pretty good in The Netherlands.
Doesnt mean it is great everywhere.
Certainly in old city centres it isnt always great.
2018 is also a bit of an "unlucky" pick for The Netherlands. Biggest increase since 1989. 10% up from 2017
https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2019/16/traffic-death-toll-up-by-11-percent-in-2018

Also... 90 of those cyclist killed were over 75.
Really wonder how many other countries have over 75's still cycling at a rate the Dutch do.

dashcamdanny · 01-07-2020 9:19pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Please take some driving lessons before you get behind the wheel again Danny.

Hi Andrew, if you would take a moment to submit the details, we can look into this matter further for you, http://bit.ly/1UQnvcO

:rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko · 01-07-2020 9:22pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Hi Andrew, if you would take a moment to submit the details, we can look into this matter further for you, http://bit.ly/1UQnvcO

:rolleyes:

An indicator doesn't 'entitle' you to do anything on the road. It is a signal of intent. It doesn't give you right of way.

I'd have hoped that a so-called professional driver would know that.

Here's another 'exceedingly rare' late RLJ.

https://streamable.com/rxqc2p

I had green for a good 2 seconds, before he entered the junction - so he had red for about 5 seconds and amber for a few seconds before that.

Good job I spotted him in time.

dashcamdanny · 01-07-2020 9:26pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

An indicator doesn't 'entitle' you to do anything on the road. It is a signal of intent. It doesn't give you right of way.

I'd have hoped that a so-called professional driver would know that.

a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it
Is stationary for the purpose of allowing a passenger to alight or board the vehicle
Is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading

Get yourself a copy of the rules of the road pal;) And a few cycling lessons.

Most National schools provide them for kids I think. Join in. :pac:

AndrewJRenko · 01-07-2020 9:35pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

a cyclist you cannot overtake on the inside if the vehicle you intend to overtake:

Is signalling an intention to turn to the left and will move to the left before you overtake it
Is stationary for the purpose of allowing a passenger to alight or board the vehicle
Is stationary for the purposes of loading or unloading

Get yourself a copy of the rules of the road pal;) And a few cycling lessons.

Most National schools provide them for kids I think. Join in. :pac:

A cyclist isn't overtaking (or undertaking) in the situation you outline. You are overtaking them. Your overtake doesn't mystically end once you pass giving you the sudden right to cut them up. You are required to judge and time your overtake so you don't cause inconvenience to any other road user.

That's a matter of law, and it's in the Rules of the Road as well.

Wishbone Ash · 01-07-2020 9:37pm

Casey78 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2020/0701/1150834-road-deaths-eu/

I guess Greece is the place to go if you want to cycle...

I've cycled in Greece many times. You could cycle all day and not see another cyclist. That probably explains the low rate of fatalaties involving cyclists there.

magicbastarder · 01-07-2020 9:51pm

Better Than Christ wrote: »

They're arguably even worse in this country. This one on Leopardstown Rd in Dublin always strikes me as being particularly unusable.

that's not even the worst part of that cycle lane. there are several poles in it further back towards the industrial estates. and the opposite side is a rollercoaster, because the cycle lane is heavily dished so as not to disrupt the driveways along the road.

dashcamdanny · 01-07-2020 9:52pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

A cyclist isn't overtaking (or undertaking) in the situation you outline. You are overtaking them. Your overtake doesn't mystically end once you pass giving you the sudden right to cut them up. You are required to judge and time your overtake so you don't cause inconvenience to any other road user.

That's a matter of law, and it's in the Rules of the Road as well.

How terribly non PC of me.

I shall never regard myself as a professional again. :rolleyes:

Now. Im finished triggering the predicable posters, im off to the pub for a beer on my bike.

Hurrache · 01-07-2020 9:56pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Why are you even arguing with this lot.

If you can get in , in front of them without them hitting you, Stick her into the bus stop.. Let them deal with you instead of the other way around.

I like to keep a least 10 behind me at all times.

They are traffic. Treat them as such. They have brakes.

You are perfectly legally allowed to clearly indicate and pull in, as long as you are in front.

You fantasise more than my kids, but at least they know they're playing pretend.

magicbastarder · 01-07-2020 9:56pm

Casey78 wrote: »

Yes there is a higher percentage of people cycling but I assumed it would also be a safer place to cycle because of all the brilliant cycling infrastructure.

that's a trivial reading of the stats; cycling is about 20 times more popular in the netherlands as it is in greece, and one effect you clearly see is that where cycling is unpopular or perceived as dangerous, it's usually more dominated by fit and healthy people, who are more likely to survive a collision, or have the reactions to avoid one.

cycling recently overtook driving in terms of fatalities in NL, and a lot of that is due to the takeup of e-bikes, where elderly people are more likely to be able to get back on a bike.

LeinsterDub · 01-07-2020 9:58pm

Casey78 wrote: »

Anyway it's good to see Ireland as one of the safest countries in Europe even if one death is too many of course.

Depends on how you measure it. The swimming pool filled with great white sharks can claim 0 drownings a year. Deaths per km walked or cycled is a far better measure

Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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