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Wage Subsidy Scheme Issues

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Comments

  • #452
    RamonD3
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭RamonD3


    collsoft wrote: »
    Hi Will,

    Unfortunately this is something that we all just have to live with.

    The way the subsidy is calculated inevitably mixes up terms like "Gross", "Net" and "Salary" and it is easy to get confused.

    What is really confusing is that an individuals subsidy entitlement is a mix of previous net pay as well as the current gross pay, so it will always be confusing.

    Admittedly I do my best to stay away from payroll but the interchanging of gross and net is something that I am struggling to get my head around!

    Just to plug some figures into an example say you have an employee whose regular gross is 2000 per month. Their employer is keeping them on but wishes to avail of the subsidy scheme. Their max subsidy is 1213 and maximum employer top up calculated at 520.

    Am I completely missing something or is there no way for the employer to claim the subsidy if they are continuing to pay them a combined amount of 2000 between the top up and subsidy i.e. whatever figure you come up for a top up is going to have to reduce the subsidy to nil.

    I appreciate the subsidy is net pay for payroll purposes (unlike the UK scheme) but that point seems moot when you can't regross the top up.


  • #453
    collsoft
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭collsoft


    One Rule in Life I try to remember is that there are no stupid questions - only stupid answers.

    Never be afraid to ask a question just because you think it might be a silly question.

    I could kick myself many times not asking a question when I wanted to because I felt it was silly, only to find out later that in fact it would have helped.

    Anyway, thats what I try to tell myself every day!!!!
    Lazman wrote: »
    Many thanks Collsoft, thought that might be the case, but I couldn't see anywhere in the Guidance on this cateogory where it says that top up + subsidy are tapered after €960, only that the subsidy is payable where gross pay is reduced by > 20% of the ARNWP.

    Then it says on Page 5 that tiered arrangements and tapering are to ensure that net pay does not exceed €960. I am beginning to feel stupid !


  • #454
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,357 ✭✭✭Tow


    RamonD3 wrote: »
    Just to plug some figures into an example say you have an employee whose regular gross is 2000 per month. Their employer is keeping them on but wishes to avail of the subsidy scheme. Their max subsidy is 1213 and maximum employer top up calculated at 520.

    Phase 1: TWSS = 1213.33 and Topup = 520 for an ARNWP of 400.
    Phase 2: TWSS = 1473.33 and Topup = 260
    Am I completely missing something or is there no way for the employer to claim the subsidy if they are continuing to pay them a combined amount of 2000

    No. The scheme is not designed to pay employees normally. It is to take workload off DEASP and keep employees 'connected' with their employer. Fine if they employee is sitting at home doing nothing, or working couple of days a week. Your employee would get 1516.67 a month with PUP, so is it worth while working?

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • #455
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,492 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Your company is probably suffering badly too. I'd take the 350 and do the 2 days. It will get you out of the house too, but make sure it's safe I suppose.
    The economy is probably going to come back slowly, certainly slower than it stopped, that's for sure. Companies will remember who helped out at this time and who didn't.
    Don't take a short term view on this, but you know your job better than me so make your own call on it


    Companies will in their fat salaried pensioned asses remember who did a couple of days for free. Loyalty these days does not exist.

    I stood up, waved the company flag in the first couple of weeks and did so much for free. Then they cut my salary by 40%! I now do my job and do nothing for free!


  • #456
    wazzer1
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭wazzer1


    I'm sure this has been asked already but only received my payslip today. Anyone know why I would have got paye and usc refunded? Cant make head nor tail of my payslip. Gross column has a payment for covid19, lpt deducted as usual but paye and usc refunded.

    TIA


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  • #457
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,357 ✭✭✭Tow


    wazzer1 wrote: »
    I'm sure this has been asked already but only received my payslip today. Anyone know why I would have got paye and usc refunded? Cant make head nor tail of my payslip. Gross column has a payment for covid19, lpt deducted as usual but paye and usc refunded.

    TIA

    The Covid19/Wage Subsidy/TWSS payment is paid net, this results in a tax/usc refund. Revenue will collect the tax/usc next year.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • #458
    wazzer1
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭wazzer1


    Thanks Tow. Looks like I would have been better off on the €350 a week to avoid all this messing with tax. Any idea how it will be collected, and is the covid payment also subject to tax in the future?


  • #459
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,820 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    wazzer1 wrote: »
    Thanks Tow. Looks like I would have been better off on the €350 a week to avoid all this messing with tax. Any idea how it will be collected, and is the covid payment also subject to tax in the future?

    No you wouldn’t. The 350 is also taxable


  • #460
    collsoft
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭collsoft


    I think that is one of the most important messages that people do need to understand.

    The Pandemic Unemployment Payment from Social Welfare is taxable (currently) and you will suffer a reduction of your tax credits when you take up your next job.

    That is how the tax will be collected on PUP.

    If there are any changes made to the taxability of PUP in the future it is likely that these would also apply to the subsidy too.

    Seve OB wrote: »
    No you wouldn’t. The 350 is also taxable


  • #461
    collsoft
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭collsoft


    Revenue have just released a press release that might help some people who have been ruled ineligible for the Wage Subsidy because their February payroll was filed after the 15th March.

    They have announced a change that will allow the subsidy as long as the February payroll was filed before 1st April.

    So if you were a little late you will be able to get the subsidy going forward (but not backdated)

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/press-office/press-releases/2020/pr-240420-revenue-announces-access-to-twss-for-certain-employers-who-missed-15-march-payroll-deadline.aspx


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  • #462
    doc22
    Registered Users Posts: 852 ✭✭✭doc22


    Seve OB wrote: »
    No you wouldn’t. The 350 is also taxable

    Are you sure? I think it is classed as it's an emergency payment SWA and not taxable


  • #463
    collsoft
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭collsoft


    I know that DEASP and Revenue are discussing this at the moment
    doc22 wrote: »
    Are you sure? I think it is classed as it's an emergency payment SWA and not taxable


  • #464
    bambam26
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭bambam26


    Tow wrote: »
    The Covid19/Wage Subsidy/TWSS payment is paid net, this results in a tax/usc refund. Revenue will collect the tax/usc next year.

    So it the figure that is showing as a refund what you will be liable to pay back or is it just a % of the refund figure that will be taxes , and will next month if still on the covid payment have the same value refund or lower or none ?


  • #465
    wazzer1
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭wazzer1


    bambam26 wrote: »
    So it the figure that is showing as a refund what you will be liable to pay back or is it just a % of the refund figure that will be taxes , and will next month if still on the covid payment have the same value refund or lower or none ?

    Yeh wondering this myself, I got rebated over twice what I would pay in a normal month.


  • #466
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    wazzer1 wrote: »
    Yeh wondering this myself, I got rebated over twice what I would pay in a normal month.

    Set aside the increase in net pay for tax you will owe


  • #467
    The_Chap
    Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭The_Chap


    The payroll will be working out your cumulative position and adjusting accordingly

    The subsidy payment is not being taken into account as part of your gross earnings at this time hence the tax rebates


  • #468
    wazzer1
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭wazzer1


    Thanks for the replies folks. I havent a clue about it. Basically I'll end up paying half the tax back, seeing as I received twice the tax I usually pay to them?


  • #469
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    California Dreamer wrote: »
    Companies will in their fat salaried pensioned asses remember who did a couple of days for free. Loyalty these days does not exist.

    I stood up, waved the company flag in the first couple of weeks and did so much for free. Then they cut my salary by 40%! I now do my job and do nothing for free!

    I shouldn't have generalised I suppose but neither should you. Some companies will remember, others won't. We are keeping track anyway.


  • #470
    booooonzo
    Registered Users Posts: 474 ✭✭booooonzo


    Our cfo has confirmed the company would pay any taxes owed on the subsidy.


  • #471
    astraj
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭astraj


    Can you be working your normal hours in your normal office and be put on the twss?


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  • #472
    collsoft
    Registered Users Posts: 253 ✭✭collsoft


    Just a small note - I cant remember the exact regulations behind this.

    But when an Employer pays an Employee's tax liability for them, then that payment becomes a Benefit In Kind charge if it is not repaid by the employee to the employer.

    Sorry, my mind is frazzled at the moment so I cant remember the exact regulation, but it is something you need to be careful of.
    booooonzo wrote: »
    Our cfo has confirmed the company would pay any taxes owed on the subsidy.


  • #473
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,820 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    collsoft wrote: »
    Just a small note - I cant remember the exact regulations behind this.

    But when an Employer pays an Employee's tax liability for them, then that payment becomes a Benefit In Kind charge if it is not repaid by the employee to the employer.

    Sorry, my mind is frazzled at the moment so I cant remember the exact regulation, but it is something you need to be careful of.

    they just have to gross the amount up


  • #474
    IRtax
    Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭IRtax


    If the company pays the taxes on the subsidy for the employee this is also taxable. Eg if 500 is owed by the employee and your company pays you this 500 they will have to regross this and pay taxes on this for you also.
    collsoft wrote: »
    Just a small note - I cant remember the exact regulations behind this.

    But when an Employer pays an Employee's tax liability for them, then that payment becomes a Benefit In Kind charge if it is not repaid by the employee to the employer.

    Sorry, my mind is frazzled at the moment so I cant remember the exact regulation, but it is something you need to be careful of.


  • #475
    witchgirl26
    Registered Users Posts: 2,054 ✭✭✭witchgirl26


    astraj wrote: »
    Can you be working your normal hours in your normal office and be put on the twss?

    Yes you can. It’s not like the furlough scheme in the UK where the employees are not allowed work for the company. Employers can claim TWSS for any employee who was on the payroll on Feb 29th no matter their current working status.


  • #476
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    For people who lost jobs before the covid, but are now stuck at home and unable to seek employment due to the government movement restrictions - are they eligible now for the 350 euro emergency benefit?


  • #477
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    voluntary wrote: »
    For people who lost jobs before the covid, but are now stuck at home and unable to seek employment due to the government movement restrictions - are they eligible now for the 350 euro emergency benefit?
    If you're job seeking I'd say JSA/JSB. If you apply for the standard one you can ask them if you can go for the COVID one. The COVID payment is for those who can't continue their employment.


  • #478
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    is_that_so wrote: »
    If you're job seeking I'd say JSA/JSB. If you apply for the standard one you can ask them if you can go for the COVID one. The COVID payment is for those who can't continue their employment.

    I'm talking about someone who started job-seeking JSB before the pandemic but is now unable to seek employment due to the government imposed lockdown.


  • #479
    The_Chap
    Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭The_Chap


    voluntary wrote: »
    I'm talking about someone who started job-seeking JSB before the pandemic but is now unable to seek employment due to the government imposed lockdown.

    If they were already on JSB pre Covid19 that's what they'll stay on during it


  • #480
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    Quite unfair, isn't it?


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  • #481
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭Jizique


    voluntary wrote: »
    Quite unfair, isn't it?

    No, it’s sad but not unfair - they would not be picking up a job currently, and presumably the €350 will revert for all who do lose their jobs once the 3 months expires


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