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Access During COVID-19

  • 01-04-2020 8:48am
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    How are all the single fathers coping with access during this time.

    I am stuck between a rock and a hard place. The mother is isolating with the kids and i am helping with groceries for her and my own mother. Due to this i am out in shops and technically exposed. I have not had access over this so not sure how to approach it.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    The general guidance is to keep households isolated. Especially if you're doing stuff to help your mother.

    Any kind of video calls not an option as a compromise?


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    The general guidance is to keep households isolated. Especially if you're doing stuff to help your mother.

    Any kind of video calls not an option as a compromise?

    yeah i know its just difficult not knowing when this will end.

    I have been trying video calls but its not the same and they are too young to get it.


  • #4
    Rattlehead_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Rattlehead_ie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    yeah i know its just difficult not knowing when this will end.

    I have been trying video calls but its not the same and they are too young to get it.

    Hi keeffo2005
    I feel for you, I'm in the exact same situation. My little person is too young to get it as well and I have tried to keep her entertained and interested in the calls as long as I can. Today had a call, was tough, but of course she is more interested in their immediate surroundings and whats going on. I know there is a beautiful/bond relationship between the 2 of us and that will go back to it when this is all over. Try not to worry and take it to heart. Its impossible to see the light at the end of the tunnel of this pandemic, but know that there is one there somewhere.

    Best of luck


  • #5
    Lizardlegz
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭Lizardlegz


    Article on this today. Much be very hard for single parents. I can understand in this article why the mother wants to keep him at home especially if she has elderly relative staying with her. However, that’s just awful for the poor dad. If the dad is self isolating and won’t bring the child anywhere I can’t see why the child can’t go and stay with the dad. It must be awful for parents who can’t see their kids.

    Mother tells court she is denying ex-partner access to son over Covid-19 fears
    via The Irish Times
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/mother-tells-court-she-is-denying-ex-partner-access-to-son-over-covid-19-fears-1.4220233


  • #6
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I was reading about it earlier and feel the judge is being harsh. It's not right to expect people to clog up the courts with orders to vary the access during this pandemic.


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  • #7
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    I was reading about it earlier and feel the judge is being harsh. It's not right to expect people to clog up the courts with orders to vary the access during this pandemic.

    It looks like the father applied to have his access enforced, not varied.

    The judge named in the article has a reputation for being extremely harsh. If she threatened to jail the mother for breach of the court order, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if she follows through at the next hearing, if the mother hasn't complied.


  • #8
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    Court ordered access must be maintained as far as I understand


  • #9
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    AulWan wrote: »
    It looks like the father applied to have his access enforced, not varied.

    The judge named in the article has a reputation for being extremely harsh. If she threatened to jail the mother for breach of the court order, then I wouldn't be at all surprised if she follows through at the next hearing, if the mother hasn't complied.

    He was expecting the mother to vary.


  • #10
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Gael23 wrote: »
    Court ordered access must be maintained as far as I understand

    While households need to be isolated, not really all that practical.


  • #11
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭billie1b


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    He was expecting the mother to vary.

    No he wasn’t, he was expecting the mother to stick to the court order, the judge said the mother would need to vary by either ‘allowing the father his access’, ‘child live with the father’ or to apply for ‘varying access’. Just another clear example of the mother thinking she can control the ex-partners life and stick two fingers up to both him and the judge, happens much too often in this country.


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  • #12
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    billie1b wrote: »
    No he wasn’t, he was expecting the mother to stick to the court order, the judge said the mother would need to vary by either ‘allowing the father his access’, ‘child live with the father’ or to apply for ‘varying access’. Just another clear example of the mother thinking she can control the ex-partners life and stick two fingers up to both him and the judge, happens much too often in this country.

    They expected if the mother was to change, the mother should apply to vary. Why would everyone clog up to courts to apply to vary? The mother clearly stated they had an elderly relative residing with them. This was not a matter of the mother attempting to alienate the father.


  • #13
    Tandey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Tandey


    Seems like the son doesn’t want to talk to his dad as she says he has access to Facebook and that. Which most of, if not all 12 year old kids do this day and age.

    Well done to the mother for being sensible and trying to keep her family healthy.


  • #14
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    He was expecting the mother to vary.

    She. Female judge.

    And it wasn't an application to vary. It was an application for enforcement of the current order, as the article specifically states the mother was in breach of it.


  • #15
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Tandey wrote: »
    Seems like the son doesn’t want to talk to his dad as she says he has access to Facebook and that. Which most of, if not all 12 year old kids do this day and age.
    .

    Completely irrelevant. 12 year olds do not get to decide the terms of the access order.


  • #16
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    They expected if the mother was to change, the mother should apply to vary. Why would everyone clog up to courts to apply to vary? The mother clearly stated they had an elderly relative residing with them. This was not a matter of the mother attempting to alienate the father.

    Just to add, I get your point about expecting the mother to vary and not clogging up the courts.

    But seeing as the denial of the father's access began on 4th March - 8 days before the schools were ordered to close - I think the judge may have found her excuse of "isolating" a convenient one.


  • #17
    billie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭billie1b


    Tandey wrote: »
    Seems like the son doesn’t want to talk to his dad as she says he has access to Facebook and that. Which most of, if not all 12 year old kids do this day and age.

    My son is on facebook messenger but never messages me, even on whatspp it’s like pulling teeth, he always comes up though. It’s the same when he’s with me, would very rarely message his mam.


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    billie1b wrote: »
    My son is on facebook messenger but never messages me, even on whatspp it’s like pulling teeth, he always comes up though. It’s the same when he’s with me, would very rarely message his mam.

    While my sons are 4 and 5, they have no interest in video calls and find it strange. But if i called to the door they would be running out the door to meet me. Technology only works with older teens and adults. Kids see having to talk on a phone as a pain.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rattlehead_ie wrote: »
    Hi keeffo2005
    I feel for you, I'm in the exact same situation. My little person is too young to get it as well and I have tried to keep her entertained and interested in the calls as long as I can. Today had a call, was tough, but of course she is more interested in their immediate surroundings and whats going on. I know there is a beautiful/bond relationship between the 2 of us and that will go back to it when this is all over. Try not to worry and take it to heart. Its impossible to see the light at the end of the tunnel of this pandemic, but know that there is one there somewhere.

    Best of luck

    Thanks Rattlehead.

    A part of me knows the Covid19 is a huge problem and hard to get past it. But if this goes on for months, then it could take a long time to rebuild what i have with them


  • #20
    Rattlehead_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Rattlehead_ie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Thanks Rattlehead.

    A part of me knows the Covid19 is a huge problem and hard to get past it. But if this goes on for months, then it could take a long time to rebuild what i have with them

    Agreed mate. I suppose, if its any comfort, there are others in v same situation.
    Take pride though as you also mentioned, when you come to that door in x weeks/months time, they will be delighted to see you, just keep the calls up or maybe just a video every few days to send down and say hi , missing them etc. Itll keep you in the back of their mind at least.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rattlehead_ie wrote: »
    Agreed mate. I suppose, if its any comfort, there are others in v same situation.
    Take pride though as you also mentioned, when you come to that door in x weeks/months time, they will be delighted to see you, just keep the calls up or maybe just a video every few days to send down and say hi , missing them etc. Itll keep you in the back of their mind at least.

    Hi Rattlehead, what is your situation at the moment?

    My solicitor was onto and said there is no way access should be stopped and there needs to be a valid reason such as immunocompromised child to stop it


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  • #22
    Rattlehead_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Rattlehead_ie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hi Rattlehead, what is your situation at the moment?
    My solicitor was onto and said there is no way access should be stopped and there needs to be a valid reason such as immunocompromised child to stop it
    Hi Keeffo,
    Child lives with mother & immunocompromised grandparents, way more than 2km from where I live. Grandparents are cocooning. On the face of that and if her mum is being genuine in her cocooning with her parents, in my head, my lil person needs her grandparents around and while it kills me being away from her at such a young age, she is young, I got to build an amazing relationship with her before all this and I know deep down it will stand to me when its all over. Each situation though is entirely different.


  • #23
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,086 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    There was a piece on the news earlier saying court granted access and maintenance must proceed


  • #24
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Gael23 wrote: »
    There was a piece on the news earlier saying court granted access and maintenance must proceed

    It really needs to be commented on practically and not against the court order. Single parents, with the kid, living with grand parents or other elderly relatives, should not be mixing with other households.

    My son who lives with me and my parents, was with me initially for a few weeks, he's now with his mother, until whenever this social distancing / lockdown thing is to ease off.

    It's going to be difficulty for all of us, but we need to look at the reality of the situation and stop mixing it in with parental alienation. While its a topic that needs to be addressed, it should not be pushed into how we handle this pandemic.


  • #25
    Rattlehead_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Rattlehead_ie


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It really needs to be commented on practically and not against the court order. Single parents, with the kid, living with grand parents or other elderly relatives, should not be mixing with other households.

    It's going to be difficulty for all of us, but we need to look at the reality of the situation and stop mixing it in with parental alienation. While its a topic that needs to be addressed, it should not be pushed into how we handle this pandemic.
    Agreed its a bad situation for everyone in one way or the other, its horrible for the parent that misses out, but in situations as mentioned we need to take a practical and understanding/flexible approach. I think its a case of "it is what it is" and in the hope that once this situation dies down that the parent that misses out is afforded additional time to make up for the lost time, not for them but for the child.


  • #26
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    It really needs to be commented on practically and not against the court order. Single parents, with the kid, living with grand parents or other elderly relatives, should not be mixing with other households.

    My son who lives with me and my parents, was with me initially for a few weeks, he's now with his mother, until whenever this social distancing / lockdown thing is to ease off.

    It's going to be difficulty for all of us, but we need to look at the reality of the situation and stop mixing it in with parental alienation. While its a topic that needs to be addressed, it should not be pushed into how we handle this pandemic.

    Except where it obviously is, as in the case posted earlier in the thread, where the mother started denying access even before the schools were closed.

    There is no doubt that there are custodial parents who will take advantage of the pandemic and use it as an excuse to deny access.


  • #27
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    AulWan wrote: »
    Except where it obviously is, as in the case posted earlier in the thread, where the mother started denying access even before the schools were closed.

    There is no doubt that there are custodial parents who will take advantage of the pandemic and use it as an excuse to deny access.

    We had already seen other countries close up before the 4th March. There were no access issues referenced in the article before this date. So are you really going to say this is parental alienation, because the mother took this action, a mere week before the schools were closed?


  • #28
    Rattlehead_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭Rattlehead_ie


    AulWan wrote: »
    Except where it obviously is, as in the case posted earlier in the thread, where the mother started denying access even before the schools were closed.
    There is no doubt that there are custodial parents who will take advantage of the pandemic and use it as an excuse to deny access.
    100% and let it be on their head that that is the type of person they are, to deny their child something as important as time with the other parent. However each and every situation can only be dealt with on an individual case by case basis in these times(whether its for e.g my, Dravos, Keeffo or the womans in the article below for e.g). Other variable , that are unique to that situation, now have to be added / have to taken into account.

    Irish Examiner


  • #29
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    We had already seen other countries close up before the 4th March. There were no access issues referenced in the article before this date. So are you really going to say this is parental alienation, because the mother took this action, a mere week before the schools were closed?

    Yep.

    And obviously the Judge did too.


  • #30
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    AulWan wrote: »
    Yep.

    And obviously the Judge did too.

    They didn't. From my reading of the article, they just enforced the court order, and said they expect to see the custodial parent to submit an application for variance. They didn't take the circumstances into account at all.


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  • #31
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    They ordered the mother to comply with the current order, or face further consequences, including the possibility the child could live with his father.

    She also said " “I have no difficulty sending someone to jail for breach of access. This is a breach of a court order and you have to comply with court orders.”

    Judges simply don't make threats like that on a first offence - not even the Judge in question who has a well known reputation for being an absolute stickler when it comes to non-compliance any court order.

    See it for what it is.


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