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11-03-2020, 14:22   #1516
fliball123
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It could also cause investors to pull their money as they get spooked and be forced to sell their built-to-let apartment blocks to individual purchasers which of course would be great news.
Once again think logically where would investors invest..Irelands rental market if flying where would you put your money if you were an investor.
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11-03-2020, 14:30   #1517
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They are not debt financed. These are cash buyers. Pull money and invest where???? -1% interest bearing bonds??
For international investors who have a reference interest rate of 0% (unlike the 2.5% for Irish mortgage buyers) it takes a lot to make it unattractive. I’d go so far as they can leave half the block empty (like capital Dock) and won’t care one bit. Yields are too good.
Past performance is not a guide to future performance. "Yields are too good" you have said, meaning they will remain too good? you are viewing it in a vacuum, ignore any possibility for market corrections by making this statement. It is complacent and a bit reckless.

Also your claim that they are not "debt financed" is completely wrong. https://www.independent.ie/business/...-39035290.html
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11-03-2020, 14:33   #1518
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Once again think logically where would investors invest..Irelands rental market if flying where would you put your money if you were an investor.
This ignores any potential market risks.
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11-03-2020, 14:35   #1519
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This ignores any potential market risks.
What ignores what?? I am asking you if you were an investor and do what all investors do what would you invest in? If I had a buy to rent apartment bringing in a profit after tax and other expenses a month I wouldnt be selling it.

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11-03-2020, 14:41   #1520
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What ignores what?? I am asking you if you were an investor and do what all investors do what would you invest in? If I had a buy to rent apartment bringing in a profit after tax and other expenses a month I wouldnt be selling it.
Why would you sell it? Unless it was decreasing in value and/or rental income was drying up.
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11-03-2020, 14:50   #1521
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Why would you sell it? Unless it was decreasing in value and/or rental income was drying up.
No sign of rentals drying up anytime soon you have to remember 12 odd years of little or no building, 12 years of increased immigration inward to Ireland, 12 years of people living longer and 12 years of people having more kids. they all need a place to live.

If you bring the virus argument into play and think people will go home, then by that argument there are more Irish people living outside of Ireland than in the country. So by that rule we will need even more housing. People can not have this every way. If Ireland are facing difficulties it means the rest of the world are as the same dynamics and issues are there too.

As for investors where do you put your money stocks are unstable and it is costing an investor to keep money in savings or do you keep your 1 bed apartment in dublin making a profit for you. No need to pay out solicitor fees or EA fees or capital gains tax. For me its a no brainer you keep the property let the Corona virus storm blow out which it will once a proper treatment has been found and that will be sooner rather than later.
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11-03-2020, 15:34   #1522
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Past performance is not a guide to future performance. "Yields are too good" you have said, meaning they will remain too good? you are viewing it in a vacuum, ignore any possibility for market corrections by making this statement. It is complacent and a bit reckless.

Also your claim that they are not "debt financed" is completely wrong. https://www.independent.ie/business/...-39035290.html

https://investorrelations.iresreit.i...-strategy.aspx


Gearing

The Group will seek to use gearing to enhance shareholder returns over the long term. The Group’s gearing, represented by the Group’s aggregate borrowings as a percentage of the market value of the Group’s total assets, will not exceed the 50% maximum permitted under the Irish REIT Regime2.


50% is max gearing, normal likely 30-40%.
Less than Half the debt of an average 1st time buyer. This is basically very low risk debt levels. Forced selling is a long way out....
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11-03-2020, 15:55   #1523
Mic 1972
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No sign of rentals drying up anytime soon you have to remember 12 odd years of little or no building, 12 years of increased immigration inward to Ireland, 12 years of people living longer and 12 years of people having more kids. they all need a place to live.

If you bring the virus argument into play and think people will go home, then by that argument there are more Irish people living outside of Ireland than in the country. So by that rule we will need even more housing. People can not have this every way. If Ireland are facing difficulties it means the rest of the world are as the same dynamics and issues are there too.

As for investors where do you put your money stocks are unstable and it is costing an investor to keep money in savings or do you keep your 1 bed apartment in dublin making a profit for you. No need to pay out solicitor fees or EA fees or capital gains tax. For me its a no brainer you keep the property let the Corona virus storm blow out which it will once a proper treatment has been found and that will be sooner rather than later.

I see many weak arguments there
- As an investor where do you put your money? Definitely not in the property market at its peak right before global instability
- As a LL you might want to capitalize on peak prices before things get worse. People will scale down their expectations on buying a house if jobs are lost, thus prices will be affected
- During the last recession we saw more people leaving then entering the country. If Ireland enters a lock down stage some people may feel safer staying where they are
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11-03-2020, 15:58   #1524
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What ignores what?? I am asking you if you were an investor and do what all investors do what would you invest in? If I had a buy to rent apartment bringing in a profit after tax and other expenses a month I wouldnt be selling it.

You are not an investor
Investors sell at the peak of the market and buy when price is low. Property market is peaking and it's facing trouble, if you have an empty property to flip this is a good time
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11-03-2020, 16:01   #1525
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I see many weak arguments there
- As an investor where do you put your money? Definitely not in the property market at its peak right before global instability
- As a LL you might want to capitalize on peak prices before things get worse. People will scale down their expectations on buying a house if jobs are lost, thus prices will be affected
- During the last recession we saw more people leaving then entering the country. If Ireland enters a lock down stage some people may feel safer staying where they are

Where do you put your money then??

I am not a landlord lets be clear on that but if I had a property which I was renting and it was turning a profit I would not be selling up as there is no where that I would get the same return as the Irish rental sector.

During the last recession it could be argued that Ireland was the worst hit out of any country at least in the top 5 countries which was why people were leaving. If there is a recession it will be due to the virus and this is every where. During the last decade we have had more people coming into this country than leaving that is a fact you can look up yourself
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11-03-2020, 16:08   #1526
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You are not an investor
Investors sell at the peak of the market and buy when price is low. Property market is peaking and it's facing trouble, if you have an empty property to flip this is a good time
Well they dont seem to be flipping as the amount of property up on line on daft myhome etc is very low
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11-03-2020, 16:10   #1527
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Only positive thing about Coronavirus is, that it’ll cripple public finances.
No more social housing pipe dreams and xmas bonuses for lifetime dolers
When SF come into power (which will eventually happen) they'll fail like any other left wing government....
Fuuck off
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11-03-2020, 16:18   #1528
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Well they dont seem to be flipping as the amount of property up on line on daft myhome etc is very low

I've seen new properties popping in the area and bracket taht I've been monitoring, but given the current state of emergency all of this is going to get to a halt
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11-03-2020, 16:20   #1529
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I've seen new properties popping in the area and bracket taht I've been monitoring, but given the current state of emergency all of this is going to get to a halt
Even with all the new developments daft and myhome have less properties advertised now then they did 6 months ago. Just saying if your premise is right and we are at the top why are there so few properties up for sale? I still argue that point state of emergency or not people need to live somewhere. By not building it will only make it worse
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11-03-2020, 16:25   #1530
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Even with all the new developments daft and myhome have less properties advertised now then they did 6 months ago. Just saying if your premise is right and we are at the top why are there so few properties up for sale? I still argue that point state of emergency or not people need to live somewhere. By not building it will only make it worse

The market will get to a halt for the next few months
Cash buyers might take their chances if prices go down, but anybody else who needs a mortgage i personally have doubt they get access to credit
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