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13-11-2019, 13:23   #571
joseywhales
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Originally Posted by Pintman Paddy Losty View Post
I'm more in tune with what is going on there than you, my friend. So don't call me ignorant. I've lived in Hong Kong for 3 years and have spent plenty of time in mainland China too. I speak and read Mandarin and have passable spoken Cantonese. I'm still in touch with friends and colleagues from HK on Linkedin. Now they do all have jobs and are above the age of 40, so perhaps not surprising that they don't like what these protests have become.


Tell me young man, what is your experience of HK? No doubt a 2 week holiday and a few student buddies who share plenty of fake news with you? Fly in and eat some Dim Sum, duck and curry fish balls and you think you're some kind of expert. A visit to Mong Kok doesn't make you an expert buddy.



Almost all of what you have posted is bullsh*t that you have read on some telegram group.

But the police have to react to violent protestors with force. They have been too restrained and let things get too far out of control in my opinion. If there were six months of violent protest in most western nations the government would have cracked down and restored order.

People want to get back to business and a load of smelly radical students won't hold up a whole city. The time has come to clean them up.
You know the government serves the people right? And not the other way around.

Do you believe that the majority of people in Hong Kong do not want universal suffrage?
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13-11-2019, 13:55   #572
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Originally Posted by joseywhales View Post
You know the government serves the people right? And not the other way around.

Do you believe that the majority of people in Hong Kong do not want universal suffrage?
I remember a couple of years ago a poll was taken and it was largely the minority that wanted independence from China, the (large) majority were against it.

Not sure how that translates 2 or 3 years later and with the protests though.
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13-11-2019, 14:42   #573
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Saying the police have been "too restrained" is ridiculous. There's plenty of evidence they've been anything but. The protests have been a widely popular movement, there were millions peacefully demonstrating on the streets. They were ignored by Carrie Lam until the protests starting becoming more radical and violent.

HK people don't support the police in this, they are not restrained nor are they widely popular. They're widely seen as dishonest and out of control, in fact. Their actions at CUHK last night only added to this feeling.
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13-11-2019, 21:05   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pintman Paddy Losty View Post
I'm more in tune with what is going on there than you, my friend. So don't call me ignorant. I've lived in Hong Kong for 3 years and have spent plenty of time in mainland China too. I speak and read Mandarin and have passable spoken Cantonese. I'm still in touch with friends and colleagues from HK on Linkedin. Now they do all have jobs and are above the age of 40, so perhaps not surprising that they don't like what these protests have become.


Tell me young man, what is your experience of HK? No doubt a 2 week holiday and a few student buddies who share plenty of fake news with you? Fly in and eat some Dim Sum, duck and curry fish balls and you think you're some kind of expert. A visit to Mong Kok doesn't make you an expert buddy.



Almost all of what you have posted is bullsh*t that you have read on some telegram group.

But the police have to react to violent protestors with force. They have been too restrained and let things get too far out of control in my opinion. If there were six months of violent protest in most western nations the government would have cracked down and restored order.

People want to get back to business and a load of smelly radical students won't hold up a whole city. The time has come to clean them up.



Ah yes. All bull****.
Pregnant woman pepper sprayed in the face.

https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co...regnant_woman/


Collaborating with Triads.


Do I even need to post video evidence of this? Not just the main Yuen Long attack, but prior to it the dozens upon dozens of videos of police filmed talking/briefing with the triads, arming them, the videos of the police leaving the station and closing the gates, the delayed response time.

Is that bullshít yeah, or have you totally forgotten about Yuen Long.


Assaulting non violent people and non violent protestors.
https://twitter.com/wooboo230/status...00109851283456


https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co..._today_if_you/


Business workers, shoppers etc
https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co..._road_central/


Schoolkids hassled and threatened, schools being teargassed.
Babies and families who have been so relentlessly subjected to tear gassing that their apartments are polluted.







https://twitter.com/JoshTANoble/stat...15570193321986


Residents in their apartments pulled out and interrogated




Rape/abortion incidents


https://news.ltn.com.tw/news/world/breakingnews/2972517


https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/11/0...-rape-station/


Assaulting persons in hospital
https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co..._brutality_on/


Entering court to re-arrest people cleared of wrongdoing
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/11/0...endants-court/


The mosque incident
https://old.reddit.com/r/HongKong/co...ing_blue_tear/


As for the deaths. Well you're aware of the incidents surrounding the deaths, some suicides, some under very suspicious circumstances at the hands of the police.





And theres worse stuff I could be posting. If you didn't have your head buried in the sand you would be witnessing the hourly videos that are on twitter.

And it's already confirmed the police from the mainland are already in the HKPD ranks, weapons and gear have been spotted and found for months now.

In recents weeks its become far more obvious.



If you want to call it all "fake news" and look for the death of "spotty students", then why don't you piss over the border to Xinjiang and live the high life under Chinese dictatorship?

The phrase "ok boomer" is very american and I doubt you're that old, but let me phrase it in a more Irish way for you.


shut up you ould fascist bollocks.
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13-11-2019, 21:22   #575
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Some updates from the past 24 hours


Scuffles between white collar workers and police

https://twitter.com/antd/status/1194...715635204?s=19
Some opinions and a mouthy unhappy white woman. I like how she calls them "afraid" for wearing masks. Wouldn't you be afraid with all the chinese facial recognition software in use?

https://twitter.com/laurelchor/statu...54398254739457
Black clad protestor fell from height, pronounced dead.

https://twitter.com/ariahychen/statu...57778985340928
University semester finished and classes cancelled a month early.
Mainland students assisted in leaving by police.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50400338

President of Taiwan, Tsai ing-wen's comments on the increasing authoritarian actions

Last edited by BlackandGreen; 13-11-2019 at 21:27.
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13-11-2019, 22:46   #576
joseywhales
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Originally Posted by Suckit View Post
I remember a couple of years ago a poll was taken and it was largely the minority that wanted independence from China, the (large) majority were against it.

Not sure how that translates 2 or 3 years later and with the protests though.
But this is conflating two very different things.

They may want to remain or not.

That is not related to whether they want the right to choose. Right now their votes are just opinion polls and carry very little weight. I can want democracy and not want independence.
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13-11-2019, 23:38   #577
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Originally Posted by joseywhales View Post
But this is conflating two very different things.

They may want to remain or not.

That is not related to whether they want the right to choose. Right now their votes are just opinion polls and carry very little weight. I can want democracy and not want independence.

You could also want independence and not want democracy.

I was just pointing out that I had read an article a few years ago that had stats from back then.

I doubt that the people who did not want independence fought much in these protests initially, but maybe now some of their opinions are different.
That article was written during the riots and protests a few years ago, so it was over similar circumstances.

I think it was more focused on the 50 year rule.
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14-11-2019, 02:29   #578
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Originally Posted by Pintman Paddy Losty View Post
I'm more in tune with what is going on there than you, my friend. So don't call me ignorant. I've lived in Hong Kong for 3 years and have spent plenty of time in mainland China too. I speak and read Mandarin and have passable spoken Cantonese. I'm still in touch with friends and colleagues from HK on Linkedin. Now they do all have jobs and are above the age of 40, so perhaps not surprising that they don't like what these protests have become.


Tell me young man, what is your experience of HK? No doubt a 2 week holiday and a few student buddies who share plenty of fake news with you? Fly in and eat some Dim Sum, duck and curry fish balls and you think you're some kind of expert. A visit to Mong Kok doesn't make you an expert buddy.



Almost all of what you have posted is bullsh*t that you have read on some telegram group.

But the police have to react to violent protestors with force. They have been too restrained and let things get too far out of control in my opinion. If there were six months of violent protest in most western nations the government would have cracked down and restored order.

People want to get back to business and a load of smelly radical students won't hold up a whole city. The time has come to clean them up.
the police have not been restrained at any time, they have been 100% violent right from the start, it is they who are out of control.
there are no smelly radical students involved in the protests, there are students, workers, and all sorts involved in these vital protests to protect hk and it's way of life, culture and independence from the brutality of the evil abomination that is the communist party of china.
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14-11-2019, 03:22   #579
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the police have not been restrained at any time, they have been 100% violent right from the start, it is they who are out of control.
there are no smelly radical students involved in the protests, there are students, workers, and all sorts involved in these vital protests to protect hk and it's way of life, culture and independence from the brutality of the evil abomination that is the communist party of china.
There is an extremely nasty element involved in the protests who are quite prepared to beat the living crap out of anyone they don't like the look, or sound, of. I'd happily wager that they are much the same people I saw screaming at mothers out shopping with their kids a few years back at Sheung Shui (and they wore masks then, too). I do not see how that has anything to do with 'the brutality of the evil abomination that is the communist party of china'.
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14-11-2019, 04:24   #580
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You don't see how any of these protests are against the encroachment of Communist party rule in HK???
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14-11-2019, 05:53   #581
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You don't see how any of these protests are against the encroachment of Communist party rule in HK???
That's not what I said though, is it? I said there is a nasty element to the protesters that has nothing to do with 'the communist party in china'.
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14-11-2019, 14:25   #582
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That's not what I said though, is it? I said there is a nasty element to the protesters that has nothing to do with 'the communist party in china'.
to be fair i am not sure that we can say that they don't have anything to do with the chinese government.
it is possible that they could be infiltrators sent from the mainland to discredit the protests. i certainly wouldn't put it passed the chinese government to do that.
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14-11-2019, 16:09   #583
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Yeah screw democracy and freedom, what did it ever do for us eh? We will all be better off as slaves.
You might try living in China before making such a comment. I've been here on the mainland for 11 years, and I've seen very little brutality by the Chinese government. No slavery. In all honesty, I've seen worse from European police. Is everything in China wonderful? Nope. But then, neither is it wonderful anywhere else. And western democracy is a sham. It's falling apart at the seams.

The transition is going to happen. Nothing is going to stop it. The Western nations are not going to intervene, and even if they did, the PRC wouldn't back down. HK is part of China and an essential piece of their national identity. The protesters are simply making the transition worse for everyone there. It was well known that the Chinese government would renege on many of their agreements. They always do. It's a matter of saving what you can, and any expectation of gaining more than that, is pure folly.

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to be fair i am not sure that we can say that they don't have anything to do with the chinese government.
it is possible that they could be infiltrators sent from the mainland to discredit the protests. i certainly wouldn't put it passed the chinese government to do that.
Funnily enough, that's what most Chinese people think about the protesters. That they're sponsored by the US and other nations to cause trouble for China. My students all have VPNs, and have watched western news media reports.. they still think most of the trouble is due to western agitators, and they genuinely believe in harsh treatment of the protesters who turn to violence.

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the police have not been restrained at any time, they have been 100% violent right from the start, it is they who are out of control.
Except that, for a time, there were no violent clashes with the protesters, and the police were in control. That changed, obviously. Who is to blame? No idea. Personally I suspect the police were told to make an example, with the situation getting out of hand.... along with the protesters thinking themselves losing public opinion (which they have) and wanted to make some martyrs.

Quote:
there are no smelly radical students involved in the protests, there are students, workers, and all sorts involved in these vital protests to protect hk and it's way of life, culture and independence from the brutality of the evil abomination that is the communist party of china.
HK independence was never going to happen. It's Chinese soil, and the Chinese will fight anyone who wants to take it away from them. If any of you really cared about the people of HK, you'd be encouraging the protesters to settle everything peacefully, and accept the merge into mainland China. If the Chinese government manage to save face on this debacle, then HK'rs may get some kind of favors that the rest of China doesn't get but they won't have them forever.

Resistance will simply evaporate any goodwill, and the Chinese will rule HK with an iron fist, and brutal expediency. It's obvious that many posters here have never tried to understand modern Chinese culture, because you're complaining about behavior that is low key compared to their normal attitude to resistance. Further resistance will generate harsher responses from Beijing. That's a given.
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14-11-2019, 16:13   #584
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Well said klaz. 100% agree with what you have posted.
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14-11-2019, 16:34   #585
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The protests are not about HK independence, and while a portion of protestors may be pro-independence, that's nowhere in the five demands. I don't know where posters on here are getting their information that the protests generally lack public support, and that the HK public is behind the police. Telling Hong Kong people to "accept the merge into Mainland China" is absolutely ridiculous, though.

I personally think that a genuinely independent inquiry into police actions, and Carrie Lam's resignation, will be enough to cause the protests to fizzle out.
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