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Is the whole environment scare like a modern Armageddon

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Comments

  • #212
    dvdman1
    Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    What I disagree with most to be honest is attitudes like yours.

    This aggressive, adversarial "you're with us or against us" mentality that doesn't actually WANT to discuss... it just wants validation.

    Seek it elsewhere. I've already given my opinion which, unlike your attitude, I'm not forcing you to agree with.

    So your affected emotionally. Boo hoo hoo
    Im sorry for ye, were allowed to offend.
    Care to add anything rational other than your emotional hurt?
    Got any opinion on the IPCC report?


  • #213
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Snow Garden wrote: »
    I don't think anyone believes Revelations anymore and if they do, they probably need therapy.

    Plenty of people believe Revelations. The question though, is how it's to be interpreted.


  • #214
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    bladespin wrote: »
    You haven't read my posts so :rolleyes:, I've already stated we've accelerated the effect, more than once actually.


    Apologies. I suppose I was reading something into this:
    this attitude that man created all the world's woes

    The question then isn't whether the climate changes by itself (it does, we agree). Or that mankind has accelerated the effect (we agree he has).

    The question is whether the accelerating effect due to mankind is sufficient to have brought about/bring about catastrophic effects that wouldn't otherwise occur in the near timeframes being talked about.


  • #215
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    ANYWAY..

    Yes, the recent obsession with Climate Change is something that is a direct result of an economy doing better IMO. Now that we all have money and stuff again, a section of the populace feel guilty about this and feel the need to "atone" for their "privilege" of not living in some backwards, poverty stricken hellhole.

    You do accept that there was a period when nobody talked about the hole in the ozone layer and then the hole in the ozone layer was front page news? That the shift in positioning to front page and all the actions taken wasn't the result of scientists suddenly discovering the hole. Or down to the particular economic conditions of the time when things hit the front page.

    I've been following global warming for about 5 years and do note it's realtively sudden appearance on Page 1. But nothing much has changed in the basic bell ringing that has been going on. That an issue finally comes into public consciousness is a normal enough thing. I mean, there were folk ringing the bell about the problems which led to the GFC long before the crash actually came. Then it went front page with Lehmann/Bear Stearns and the like.


  • #216
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,661 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    dvdman1 wrote: »
    So your affected emotionally. Boo hoo hoo
    Im sorry for ye, were allowed to offend.
    Care to add anything rational other than your emotional hurt?
    Got any opinion on the IPCC report?

    You'd have to do better than that to cause me emotional hurt.

    I just don't see the point in debating with a zealot, which is what many of our modern "crusaders" (and mot just on this issue) have become.

    All the best.


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  • #217
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    ANYWAY..

    Yes, the recent obsession with Climate Change is something that is a direct result of an economy doing better IMO. Now that we all have money and stuff again, a section of the populace feel guilty about this and feel the need to "atone" for their "privilege" of not living in some backwards, poverty stricken hellhole.

    Social media, as with so much else these days, amplifies this stuff until it's latched onto by formerly respectable news and media outlets (themselves staffed with many of these people) and suddenly it's a "crisis" we should all be kept awake at night thinking about and throwing references of our new-found awareness into every conversation (it's all over this forum for example!)

    I was born in the 70s and so grew up in the Cold War, the "threat" of nuclear Armageddon, the ozone hole, the Gulf wars and so on and y'know what? It never affected my childhood and activities at all, and nor should it have. One way or another, these were issues that would be decided by Superpowers - not by a teenager in Ireland - and what was the point in upsetting and worrying myself about it at a time when school exams, or girls, were my priorities.

    Trying to dump all this crap onto kids now (as increasingly happens in other areas of life too), with adults projecting their views on things onto children with no notion of the concept or agenda behind it is frankly, wrong!
    Could we all do more to reduce our "Consumerist Lifestyle" and waste that it generates.. absolutely! Is it worth getting worried and upset over to the point of cult-ish behaviours... Not a chance!

    Thankfully these fads die out once things like economic slowdowns hit the headlines (there wasn't much talk of this "crisis" during 2008-2015 was there?). If the worst aspects of social media went with it, it'd be win-win!

    I think a lot of people in the country are starting to have "wait a minute, what the fck is really going here?" moments. There's a common thread underpinning much of what is going on and it's the new dominance of an egocentric ersatz spirituality which entered the moral and intellectual vacuum created by the collapse of the housing bubble. If you deconstruct seemingly disparate phenomena such as mass shootings, the push to create a 'polyethnic society', tattoos, bodybuilding (and its weird cousin feedees :eek:), transexualism, "makeover" (of either self or property) tv shows, yoga, cryptocurrencies, gap years abroad etc you can see the universal theme of transformation in which the individual either seeks self-actualisation by increasing their status in the world as it is today or envisages themselves as a "hero" in the future world where they will be acclaimed for foreseeing it or helping to bring it about.


  • #218
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    sabat wrote: »
    I think a lot of people in the country are starting to have "wait a minute, what the fck is really going here?" moments. There's a common thread underpinning much of what is going on and it's the new dominance of an egocentric ersatz spirituality which entered the moral and intellectual vacuum created by the collapse of the housing bubble. If you deconstruct seemingly disparate phenomena such as mass shootings, the push to create a 'polyethnic society', tattoos, bodybuilding (and its weird cousin feedees :eek:), transexualism, "makeover" (of either self or property) tv shows, yoga, cryptocurrencies, gap years abroad etc you can see the universal theme of transformation in which the individual either seeks self-actualisation by increasing their status in the world as it is today or envisages themselves as a "hero" in the future world where they will be acclaimed for foreseeing it or helping to bring it about.
    And for a bonus point solve the mystery of this post in three words!:confused:


  • #219
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    STOP+++PRESS+++STOP+++PRESS

    Kaiser, how could you have " no empirical models or methods that can enable quantitative predictions in the case of glaciers with sliding dynamics" if this was something that happened all the time but was only being noticed due to the power of social media and our guilt complex.

    Italian authorities have closed off roads and evacuated homes after experts warned that a portion of a Mont Blanc glacier is at risk of collapse.

    Stefano Miserocchi, the mayor of the town of Courmayeur, said “public safety is a priority” after experts from the Fondazione Montagna Sicura (Safe Mountains Foundation) in the Aosta Valley said up to 250,000 cubic metres of ice was in danger of sliding off the Planpincieux glacier on the Grandes Jorasses peak.

    Experts have been monitoring the glacier closely since 2013 to detect the speed at which the ice is melting, and Miserocchi said the rate had “significantly increased” recently. But they are unable to predict when the ice would break away.

    “There are currently no empirical models or methods that can enable quantitative predictions in the case of glaciers with sliding dynamics such as Planpincieux,” Miserocchi added.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/mont-blanc-glacier-in-danger-of-collapse-experts-warn


  • #220
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    As we all noticed, there has been a relatively rapid appearance of global warming (and its effects) on the front page of mainstream news and social media. It isn't to be unexpected that this is the way things occur: the scientists spot it early and start writing on it and it takes a while (until lots of scientists are writing about it and the effect become pronounced) for the news to take note. I mean, the news was still reporting ever increasing house prices when the crash had already started...

    I came across Prof Jem Bendell in my reading. He was preparing an address on the state of current climate a few years ago but in his researching the science, came to the conclusion that it was already too late: we wouldn't be able to stop runaway climate change even if we started now. And we weren't going to be able to adapt (climate adaptation). And so he's basically upped sticks on his career and is preparing to deal with societal collapse. The upside of this view is that you can fire away and keep on using plastic straws and disposable cutlery.

    I wonder whether, in a few years time, this view will be the view being presented in mainstream news and on social media


    https://jembendell.com/


  • #221
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    is_that_so wrote: »
    And for a bonus point solve the mystery of this post in three words!:confused:

    This paper is well worth a read:

    The New Age Movement in the Post-Celtic Tiger Context: Secularisation, Enchantment and Crisis

    https://journals.openedition.org/etudesirlandaises/3921

    Here's a post I made yesterday in another thread:
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111335654&postcount=154

    If any people older than their mid-thirties are reading this, try to cast your mind back to when the internet hadn't cannibalised society, in particular to how the media analysed and presented information to the public and to how we interacted with our fellow citizens. Now imagine it's 1998 or whatever date and a group of people including a forest therapy guide, a flotation facilitator, a complimentary therapist and a failed actress show up dressed in pagan garb announcing that the world is ending and that we must follow their vision of the future.
    If we had even got to hear about them, they would have been laughed out of town.
    Fast forward to today and they are presented and accepted at face value with zero criticism in the national media-in fact they are getting their picture taken with the president (who incidentally is no stranger to this mode of thinking himself.)

    1559662104092.JPG


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  • #222
    vriesmays
    Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Why isn't Higgins standing with a group of geologists, ecologists and climatologists instead of a bunch of hippies and school kids.


  • #223
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Easy? What are you smoking? Agriculture already uses almost half of the world’s vegetated land. It consumes 90% of all the fresh water used by humanity and generates 1/4 of the annual global emissions that are causing global warming (according to that 'settled science"). And yet of the 7 billion people living today, 820 million are undernourished because they don’t have access to, or can’t afford, an adequate diet. There is no easy way to produce 30% more food on the same land area, stop deforestation, and cut carbon emissions for food production by two-thirds. Less meat and more plant base will help somewhat but it won’t be enough by a long shot. Plus, population will continue to rise.
    ..

    Not having a go but ... I agree with many of your comments. Btw.

    The majority of those figures you have included are little more than the propaganda usually trotted out for the purpose of converting the great unwashed to the vegan crusade. Most of that is based on US agriculture feedlot style agriculture, not applicable to agricultural practices worldwide and in my experience are generally regurgitated by plant food advocates.

    Of course agriculture uses land. What else would it be used for? Condos? Golf courses? Plus a lot of of what is classified as agricultural land is under permanent pasture because it is not suitable for cultivation due to local climatic and topographical conditions.

    The thing is there is no world shortage of food in the world. Hunger and famine is mainly caused by corruption and inequality. 

    https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

    The fact is that fossil fuel use in the transport and energy sectors are responsible for approx 75 - 80% of all greenhouse gases. And yet all we hear is that aninals are 'bad'. Agriculture feeds people and for billions on the planet provides their livelihood. For example agriculture in Ethiopia is generally based on small family farms with cattle providing both valuable milk and an income. Added up Ethiopia has 53 million cattle. In India there are 75 million 'dairy farms' often with just a few animals. These farms provide an essential source of food to these families and animals provide soil nutrients in the form of manure which is used to help grow crops and even used for fuel to cook food and as a raw material in the building of traditional style houses. There are many thousands of more examples - but hey fek that let's all get with the latest in hip and trendy lifestyles or something ...


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