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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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  • Options
    #4532
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    There will eventually be a private sector revolution - make no mistake.
    They'll steal our pensions first. They did it last time, they'll do it again.

    Government in this country is basically a mafia, a cartel. Highest paid public servants in the world, can't be fired no matter how incompetent or lazy, super-high taxes on low wages to pay for it, and they're back again at the trough just as we face into the uncertainty of Brexit. It's a cartel that is holding the entire country to ransom.


  • Options
    #4533
    noodler
    Registered Users Posts: 26,179 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Agree about the guards , but if the government say that the terms and conditions of the current pay deal weren’t broken , there’s not much the guards can do.

    Sure the nurses broke the agreement by striking.

    They can call the increases within the agreement all they want but the unions have the right to decide that.

    In a few years we'll have another downturn and we'll all have to be cut again.


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    #4534
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    noodler wrote: »
    Sure the nurses broke the agreement by striking.

    They can call the increases within the agreement all they want but the unions have the right to decide that.

    In a few years we'll have another downturn and we'll all have to be cut again.

    Nurses broke no agreement according to the government !
    Are you blaming nurses for this crash you say we will have in a few years time ?


  • Options
    #4535
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Are you blaming nurses for this crash you say we will have in a few years time ?

    Don't worry, I'm sure ye'll be all able to blame de Gubberment.


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    #4536
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Don't worry, I'm sure ye'll be all able to blame de Gubberment.

    I’m sure the current government will be long gone before we have a crash ..


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    #4537
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    This current government will be long gone before another crash occurs ...


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    #4538
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    hawkelady wrote: »
    This current government will be long gone before another crash occurs ...
    It'll be them complaining about the previous government.


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    #4539
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,505 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The amount of hate for the public sector is ridiculous.
    If you remember back around 16-18 years ago they couldn't get enough people to take public sector jobs because the pay was too low. The government decided to increase public sector pay as a result of this.
    The public sector didn't deserve good pay back 20+ years ago. On many occasions I almost felt like I was unwelcome when I needed assistance from a public sector worker.
    Nowadays they are very easy to deal with, friendly and very productive regardless of what area they work in.
    Productivity in the public sector is to be admired imo, the only issues these days are old laws, rules and red tape that slow them down in some areas.
    Obviously if you had this improvement over a 20 year period in the private sector you'd expect to be earning more money as profits sore. Unfortunately it's not about profit in the public sector so people get very annoyed that public servants are earning decent money or want a raise.
    Nurses and Garda are two very tough jobs and they work very hard so I'll never be annoyed at them looking for more money.
    My gripe is that it's every nurse or Garda that gets the same percentage raise most of the time. I don't think that a superintendent necessarily needs a raise as they are getting very well paid already. I don't think that a nurse manager needs a raise either. They are not in the wards working extra hours for free to hand over to the day or night shift.
    It's ludicrous in my mind that the gap between the wages of higher and lower earners is growing all the time. It's ludicrous that every time a regular hard working public servant gets a raise that the higher ups in that section are getting even more money.


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    #4540
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    We have no large standing army, a young population and full employment.

    So where's all the money going???

    The public sector are absolutely creaming it in this country. Does any other country pay so much for such poor outcomes in health services?

    They are like parasites, sucking up all the available resources - money that could be invested into improving services or infrastructural investment, is being channeled into the pockets of a bloated, under-performing and overpaid public service.

    They have taken advantage of the political landscape in the country - there is literally no political party that will stand up to them.

    When your kids ask you in 20 years time why the country is 100's of billions in debt with crumbling infrastructure when we were bringing in so much money, make sure you point out your local Guard, Nurse and Teacher - tell little Johnny that they fcuked up the country and spunked the money away on foreign holidays and patios rather than prudently invest in the future.

    Apologise to Johnny for leaving him a sh;thole of a country and offer him a lift to the airport.


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    #4541
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    Who have we got here mystic meg? The pension pot will the still around by the time I retire

    Without giving credence to much of what the other poster says, they're certainly correct on this point.

    Pensions are currently funded by the working population. At present we have 5 working people for every 1 person claiming a pension from the State. By 2050, we'll just have 2 working people for every 1 person claiming a pension.

    There is a massive pensions time bomb, both public and private, that is going to lead to some tough decisions down the line.


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    #4542
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    We have no large standing army, a young population and full employment.

    So where's all the money going???

    The public sector are absolutely creaming it in this country. Does any other country pay so much for such poor outcomes in health services?

    They are like parasites, sucking up all the available resources - money that could be invested into improving services or infrastructural investment, is being channeled into the pockets of a bloated, under-performing and overpaid public service.

    They have taken advantage of the political landscape in the country - there is literally no political party that will stand up to them.

    When your kids ask you in 20 years time why the country is 100's of billions in debt with crumbling infrastructure when we were bringing in so much money, make sure you point out your local Guard, Nurse and Teacher - tell little Johnny that they fcuked up the country and spunked the money away on foreign holidays and patios rather than prudently invest in the future.

    Apologise to Johnny for leaving him a sh;thole of a country and offer him a lift to the airport.

    I think the REAL drain to society is the landlord and housing model.

    I don't mind paying an excellent nurse a very good wage.

    I do however have a problem with the idea of paying a landlord or developer excessive money for a house or a plot of land THEY paid too much for.

    You pay close to 2 k a month for a 3 bed and it's not at all clear what you are getting for what will be 200 k over 10 years just on rent at current.

    Imagine the difference it would make if rent was 1200 a month and not 2 k.

    This rent is putting pressure on wages too.


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    #4543
    feckthisgenie
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭feckthisgenie


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    We have no large standing army, a young population and full employment.

    So where's all the money going???

    The public sector are absolutely creaming it in this country. Does any other country pay so much for such poor outcomes in health services?

    They are like parasites, sucking up all the available resources - money that could be invested into improving services or infrastructural investment, is being channeled into the pockets of a bloated, under-performing and overpaid public service.

    They have taken advantage of the political landscape in the country - there is literally no political party that will stand up to them.

    When your kids ask you in 20 years time why the country is 100's of billions in debt with crumbling infrastructure when we were bringing in so much money, make sure you point out your local Guard, Nurse and Teacher - tell little Johnny that they fcuked up the country and spunked the money away on foreign holidays and patios rather than prudently invest in the future.

    Apologise to Johnny for leaving him a sh;thole of a country and offer him a lift to the airport.

    I will repeat it was the private sector that bankrupt the country before and it will be them again.
    It's not the public servants that are the problem, it's the clueless government that throw money in the wrong areas and don't staff areas adequately.
    Again I repeat it's the greed of all the private sector that destroy the economy and they're the problem.
    We are the salt of the earth in the public sector


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    #4544
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    I will repeat it was the private sector that bankrupt the country before and it will be them again.

    It was Government's decision to guarantee the liabilities of Anglo and Irish Nationwide. That's a Public decision that caused the effective bankruptcy of the country, not a private one.

    You can't just blame "the private sector" for bankrupting the country.
    feckthisgenie wrote: »
    We are the salt of the earth in the public sector

    You're a parody.


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    #4545
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Amirani wrote: »
    It was Government's decision to guarantee the liabilities of Anglo and Irish Nationwide. That's a Public decision that caused the effective bankruptcy of the country, not a private one.

    You can't just blame "the private sector" for bankrupting the country.

    Maybe if some of the private sector had the expertise that makes them so "worth it", as we're constantly told, they wouldn't have nosedived their own business into the ground to the extent that, having previously parroted the "government should keeps its nose out of business" line, they then had to go cap in hand to government and say "Help!".


  • Options
    #4546
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    storker wrote: »
    Maybe if some of the private sector had the expertise that makes them so "worth it", as we're constantly told, they wouldn't have nosedived their own business into the ground to the extent that, having previously parroted the "government should keeps its nose out of business" line, they then had to go cap in hand to government and say "Help!".

    The whole of the private sector did that was it? Not sure why people are trying to make it seem like the entirety of the private or public sector are either perfect or terrible. There's good and bad elements of both.

    In the same way; you can't just entirely blame either for the financial crisis and Ireland's effective bankruptcy.


  • Options
    #4547
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    We have no large standing army, a young population and full employment.

    So where's all the money going???

    The public sector are absolutely creaming it in this country. Does any other country pay so much for such poor outcomes in health services?

    They are like parasites, sucking up all the available resources - money that could be invested into improving services or infrastructural investment, is being channeled into the pockets of a bloated, under-performing and overpaid public service.

    They have taken advantage of the political landscape in the country - there is literally no political party that will stand up to them.

    When your kids ask you in 20 years time why the country is 100's of billions in debt with crumbling infrastructure when we were bringing in so much money, make sure you point out your local Guard, Nurse and Teacher - tell little Johnny that they fcuked up the country and spunked the money away on foreign holidays and patios rather than prudently invest in the future.

    Apologise to Johnny for leaving him a sh;thole of a country and offer him a lift to the airport.

    Creaming it compared to who? Wages are broadly comparable to other EU countries, there's no public servants who are making double or treble what a similar person in the UK would make. It's not even like the public sector is a closed shop either. Plenty of jobs for anyone who wants them. Plenty of room for advancement. All wage scales are transparent and you can see what most people earn.

    I know what all my public sector friends earn. They don't know what I earn.

    Also, it's none of your business what people spend their money on, public or private. If I want to fly to Barbados, deck my entire back garden and throw in a Jacuzzi that's my business.


  • Options
    #4548
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Amirani wrote: »
    The whole of the private sector did that was it?

    I think the clue is in the word "some".
    Not sure why people are trying to make it seem like the entirety of the private or public sector are either perfect or terrible.

    Agreed. Again, this is why I used the word "some". But the hate (I hesitate to use that overloaded word, but sometimes it's hard not to draw that conclusion) that appears to exist in this thread for the public service needs some counterbalance.
    There's good and bad elements of both.In the same way; you can't just entirely blame either for the financial crisis and Ireland's effective bankruptcy.

    I'm pleased to see that we're actually in agreement.

    (I'm a private sector worker, by the way.)


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    #4549
    koppy
    Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭koppy


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    We have no large standing army, a young population and full employment.

    So where's all the money going???

    The public sector are absolutely creaming it in this country. Does any other country pay so much for such poor outcomes in health services?



    They are like parasites, sucking up all the available resources - money that could be invested into improving services or infrastructural investment, is being channeled into the pockets of a bloated, under-performing and overpaid public service.

    They have taken advantage of the political landscape in the country - there is literally no political party that will stand up to them.

    When your kids ask you in 20 years time why the country is 100's of billions in debt with crumbling infrastructure when we were bringing in so much money, make sure you point out your local Guard, Nurse and Teacher - tell little Johnny that they fcuked up the country and spunked the money away on foreign holidays and patios rather than prudently invest in the future.

    Apologise to Johnny for leaving him a sh;thole of a country and offer him a lift to the airport.

    😂😂🀣🀣 very funny post. Wasn't expecting a post in this thread to make me laugh as much


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    #4550
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Did anyone else hear the one on newstalk. She said nurses worked shifts for free and got very screechy when challenged on it? Ivan Yeats show


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    #4551
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Did anyone else hear the one on newstalk. She said nurses worked shifts for free and got very screechy when challenged on it? Ivan Yeats show

    She replied when challenged on it. The fact that you only heard screeching shows you'd rather play the 'female hysteria' trope, as opposed to debating it yourself.

    Moaning about screeching!
    The irony is lost on ya.


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    #4552
    Alrigghtythen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    She replied when challenged on it. The fact that you only heard screeching shows you'd rather play the 'female hysteria' trope, as opposed to debating it yourself.

    Moaning about screeching!
    The irony is lost on ya.
    Who was she, I missed the introduction. She played up well to the stereotype. Tears and everything


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    #4553
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Who was she, I missed the introduction. She played up well to the stereotype. Tears and everything[/QUOTE

    Can you hear tears over the radio? :rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #4554
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Alrigghtythen wrote: »
    Who was she, I missed the introduction. She played up well to the stereotype. Tears and everything

    Dragons den lady... Ya the tears were about when her husband was dying the nurses were there for her. From that brief example I'd say nurses are damm important and they should be given the staffing and time to deal with things like that.

    I saw it myself when I used to work in a hospital as a porter. People dying alone cos the nurses hadn't the time to give. That's what this is about. Recruitment and retention and respect in hospitals.

    No problems whatsoever handing over 2 billion to the private sector pigs at the trough. Then another 500k to more private sector know all's to tell us what?

    But ya sure, the public sector caused the recession and they'll do it again .... keep banging that drum till yer on yet death bed in hospital.... alone.


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    #4555
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    If that was Norah Casey that was on she actually used to be a Nurse.


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    #4556
    salonfire
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭salonfire


    evolving_doors wrote: »

    No problems whatsoever handing over 2 billion to the private sector pigs at the trough. Then another 500k to more private sector know all's to tell us what?

    You must be absolutely outraged at the cost of public service pay increases then.

    The hospital 1 billion cost overrun is for a building that will be used for the next 100 years.

    Pay increases will exceed that cost in just 4 years. Then another 1 billion 4 years after that. Then another 1 billion 4 years after that.

    And for what? Better public services? You haven't a clue and jump on the nearest bandwagon to deflect reality.


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    #4557
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    salonfire wrote: »
    You must be absolutely outraged at the cost of public service pay increases then.

    The hospital 1 billion cost overrun is for a building that will be used for the next 100 years.

    Pay increases will exceed that cost in just 4 years. Then another 1 billion 4 years after that. Then another 1 billion 4 years after that.

    And for what? Better public services? You haven't a clue and jump on the nearest bandwagon to deflect reality.

    I have a clue. I'm in the public service and have worked in a hospital. If you think a 2 billion budget for a hospital and a modest pay increase are mutually exclusive then you're the one deflecting.

    Yes. Pay more you get get better staff.

    The only counter argument you can have is to advocate paying less for a better outcome??

    Do you think we have to pay them more or less.... which is it?


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    #4558
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭daithi7


    Well, Ireland had already got the ~second best paid nurses on the planet, (& assumedly similar relativity for other Hse workers) yet we get the worst health outcomes in the OECD.

    All this with one of the youngest populations in the OECD. It is a disgrace.

    We have the Worst Value Health Service on the Planet (source OECD), and yet this government want to throw even more money at an already overpaid sector in it. And this will undoubtedly bring the whole public service back to the trough. CRAZY!!! SIMPLY CRAZY!!!!


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    #4559
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    daithi7 wrote: »

    All this with one of the youngest populations in the OECD. It is a disgrace. !

    Ah yes, the youngest population in the The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

    I love being a citizen of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development... :rolleyes:


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    #4560
    acequion
    Registered Users Posts: 3,827 ✭✭✭acequion


    daithi7 wrote: »
    Well, Ireland had already got the ~second best paid nurses on the planet, (& assumedly similar relativity for other Hse workers) yet we get the worst health outcomes in the OECD.

    All this with one of the youngest populations in the OECD. It is a disgrace.

    We have the Worst Value Health Service on the Planet (source OECD), and yet this government want to throw even more money at an already overpaid sector in it. And this will undoubtedly bring the whole public service back to the trough. CRAZY!!! SIMPLY CRAZY!!!!

    "On the planet" now.It will be on the galaxy next.:rolleyes: The exaggerations keep soaring up and up. Entertaining to read. :D


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    #4561
    Miike
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    OECD OECD OECD

    *Rocking back and forth intensifies*


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