Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Varta · 12-02-2019 12:45pm

daithi7 wrote: »

Nope I read it, but one opinion does not a fact make!!

(especially when all the facts of the above case indicate other reasons, i.e. nurses absenteeism and lack of flexibility in working practices )

p.s. I made a claim that a surgeon had to stop surgery due to nurses insisting on changing shift during an operation. I know it occured, and assumedly occurs to this day, cos despite all the performance related pay increases and increments, my bet is that opting for this is still at the nurse's discretion.

If only you could apply that to yourself.

facehugger99 · 12-02-2019 1:04pm

daithi7 wrote: »

Public spending is now totally out of control imho. This government have removed the office of Minister for Public expenditure, allowed the budget for the NCH to treble, overspent the one off corporate tax windfall last year on annual budgets and now compromising their own public sector pay deal by caving to the nurse's demands. It's time for a new government imho.

Who?

There is no fiscally conservative party prepared to take politically unpopular decisions to secure our future prosperity.

The only viable alternative to FG is FF which created a Public Service monster and HSE in the first place.

The likes of SF and Labour would be even worse again.

If you're a private sector worker, your choice basically comes down to how badly you end up getting shafted. That will stay the case as long as the PS unions are negotiating with a PS Government and being impartially :rolleyes: reported on by the PS national broadcaster.

daithi7 · 12-02-2019 1:08pm

Varta wrote: »

And I told you that your claim was utter nonsense. It has never happened, except in your head.

it happened according to a very frustrated top surgeon and lifelong friend of mine, so thanks for your repeated negative assertions about this incident, it did occur, and your repeated bone headed assertion that it did not (except in my head) is both ignorant and inaccurate. Typical of you!!

p.s. see ya varta, wouldn't want to be ya!!!

hawkelady · 12-02-2019 1:36pm

daithi7 wrote: »

it happened according to a very frustrated top surgeon and lifelong friend of mine, so thanks for your repeated negative assertions about this incident, it did occur, and your repeated bone headed assertion that it did not (except in my head) is both ignorant and inaccurate. Typical of you!!

p.s. goodbye varta!!!

It did not occur the way you say. It just didn’t.

mariaalice · 12-02-2019 1:40pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

Who?

There is no fiscally conservative party prepared to take politically unpopular decisions to secure our future prosperity.

The only viable alternative to FG is FF which created a Public Service monster and HSE in the first place.

The likes of SF and Labour would be even worse again.

If you're a private sector worker, your choice basically comes down to how badly you end up getting shafted. That will stay the case as long as the PS unions are negotiating with a PS Government and being impartially :rolleyes: reported on by the PS national bro dcaster.

That is not true, it depends on what private sector you are in lots of padding/ or extras in private sector employment and not just in IT one person I have in mind top health insurance paid for, generous holidays, bonuses it is in the financial sector there are no unions involved.

daithi7 · 12-02-2019 1:41pm

hawkelady wrote: »

It did not occur the way you say. It just didn’t.

htf do you know!?
like were you there!?!

wrangler · 12-02-2019 1:47pm

daithi7 wrote: »

Nope I read it, but one opinion does not a fact make!!

(especially when all the facts of the above case indicate other reasons, i.e. nurses absenteeism and lack of flexibility in working practices )

p.s. I made a claim that a surgeon had to stop surgery due to nurses insisting on changing shift during an operation. I know it occured, and assumedly occurs to this day, cos despite all the performance related pay increases and increments, my bet is that opting for this is still at the nurse's discretion.

There was a case on the sunday Indo where a surgeon left an operation for two hours......like WTF

Varta · 12-02-2019 1:47pm

daithi7 wrote: »

htf do you know!?
like were you there!?!

It did not happen. And you don't have a surgeon friend. At least not one that is visible to everyone else.

tretorn · 12-02-2019 1:54pm

How do the shifts work, do you have the same numbers at night as you do on the day shift.

Would having three shifts of eight hours be better than the twelve hour shifts which means nurses only have to be available for work three days a week. If nurses worked 8 Am to 4 pm, 4PM to Midnight and Midnight to 8 AM five days a week would this make the system more efficient. That would mean experienced nurses would be on site five days in a row rather than doing a Monday and Tuesday for example and then being off till Friday. Nurses probably wouldnt be interested in working like this though because then they have to be at work five days in a row.

We definitely need more HCAs, as far as I could see when my relative was in hospital for two months it is these workers who are doing the caring, the nurses spent most of their day at the top of the ward looking at computers and to be honest most of the younger nurses anyway dont want to do the hard physical graft. They see themselves as some sort of supernumary nurse and really the HSE doesnt need more nurses like this and they dont need to be training them to go abroad either which is what is happening now and the payrise they have got wont change that.

The Government should recruit a lot more Hcas and pay them a bit better and reduce the number of nurses on the wards, the modern day nurses seem to spend their days moaning about how hard their lot is. If the nurses were trained within the hospital system and not in universities they would find out pretty quickly what nursing actually involves and then they wouldnt be running out as fast as they can to Dubai to prop up the health service the wealthy can access in that awful country. To think that the Irish taxpayer is funding the nurses training so they can earn very big salaries using that training in Dubai.

Fiftyfilthy · 12-02-2019 2:03pm

So it was all about money?

I was reading all these stories in the media about nurses falling asleep at the end of a long day in their cars etc

How will 2k fix this?

I thought the strike was about work conditions and environment?

Old diesel · 12-02-2019 2:03pm

tretorn wrote: »

How do the shifts work, do you have the same numbers at night as you do on the day shift.

Would having three shifts of eight hours be better than the twelve hour shifts which means nurses only have to be available for work three days a week. If nurses worked 8 Am to 4 pm, 4PM to Midnight and Midnight to 8 AM five days a week would this make the system more efficient. That would mean experienced nurses would be on site five days in a row rather than doing a Monday and Tuesday for example and then being off till Friday. Nurses probably wouldnt be interested in working like this though because then they have to be at work five days in a row.

We definitely need more HCAs, as far as I could see when my relative was in hospital for two months it is these workers who are doing the caring, the nurses spent most of their day at the top of the ward looking at computers and to be honest most of the younger nurses anyway dont want to do the hard physical graft. They see themselves as some sort of supernumary nurse and really the HSE doesnt need more nurses like this and they dont need to be training them to go abroad either which is what is happening now and the payrise they have got wont change that.

The Government should recruit a lot more Hcas and pay them a bit better and reduce the number of nurses on the wards, the modern day nurses seem to spend their days moaning about how hard their lot is. If the nurses were trained within the hospital system and not in universities they would find out pretty quickly what nursing actually involves and then they wouldnt be running out as fast as they can to Dubai to prop up the health service the wealthy can access in that awful country. To think that the Irish taxpayer is funding the nurses training so they can earn very big salaries using that training in Dubai.

They ALREADY do ward work as part of their training.

animaal · 12-02-2019 2:03pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

There is no fiscally conservative party prepared to take politically unpopular decisions to secure our future prosperity.

There have been other choices in the past, but the public has always decided that economic issues take a back seat to other priorities.

tom1ie · 12-02-2019 2:13pm

animaal wrote: »

There have been other choices in the past, but the public has always decided that economic issues take a back seat to other priorities.

Who? Renua? Economically correct, socially backwards therefore can't be voted for.
Pd's? An example of conservative liberalism, economically spot on and socially liberal. They were once the 3rd biggest party in Ireland.
So if there is an alternative people will vote for it.

tretorn · 12-02-2019 2:15pm

Old diesel wrote: »

They ALREADY do ward work as part of their training.

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

animaal · 12-02-2019 2:20pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Who? Renua? Economically correct, socially backwards therefore can't be voted for.
Pd's? An example of conservative liberalism, economically spot on and socially liberal. They were once the 3rd biggest party in Ireland.
So if there is an alternative people will vote for it.

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

Martina1991 · 12-02-2019 2:26pm

tretorn wrote:

Would having three shifts of eight hours be better than the twelve hour shifts which means nurses only have to be available for work three days a week. If nurses worked 8 Am to 4 pm, 4PM to Midnight and Midnight to 8 AM five days a week would this make the system more efficient. That would mean experienced nurses would be on site five days in a row rather than doing a Monday and Tuesday for example and then being off till Friday. Nurses probably wouldnt be interested in working like this though because then they have to be at work five days in a row.

tretorn wrote:

How do the shifts work, do you have the same numbers at night as you do on the day shift.

There are less staff at night. Patients are more or less monitored while they sleep unless they become acutely unwell and need medication, or blood tests.

In your example of eight hour shifts you would need 3 separate rosters for nurses. There isn't enough staff for 3 shifts a day. With 12 hour shifts you have less rosters. The same staff are there for longer so theres less time wasted with handovers at the change of shift.

12-02-2019 2:29pm

mariaalice wrote: »

That is not true, it depends on what private sector you are in lots of padding/ or extras in private sector employment and not just in IT one person I have in mind top health insurance paid for, generous holidays, bonuses it is in the financial sector there are no unions involved.

Yeah, but the private sector are profit making. Folk contriuting to that profit get rewarded sometimes, sometimes handsomely.
They can also be made redundant etc etc etc

mariaalice · 12-02-2019 2:29pm

tretorn wrote: »

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

It's not a form of servile slavery

its a professional job every first world country has nursing as a degree entry job it's not going to go backward and why not change career if someone one does not like it. There is a weird obsession with nurses in Irish society you just would not get the same ranting and raving about other professions except maybe teachers and not as much of it.

Lots drop out of the nursing degree as it goes along anyway the same as any third level course.

facehugger99 · 12-02-2019 2:32pm

animaal wrote: »

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

A choice would be nice.

One that doesn't involve a choice between voting for a bunch of soft-left populists that will throw tax-money at any problem rather than making the hard choices and the money-tree populists of the extreme left.

The country's finances are unsustainable. Our debt burden is huge, spending is running out of control across various departments and the public service and state pensions are a ponzi scheme that will not survive the demographic changes that are coming down the track in the next decades. The next recession is closer to us than the previous one at this stage and Brexit threatens to seriously impact our exports.

Future generations will look back on these times and wonder how people cheered as we sacrificed our futures on the altar of political expediency.

tom1ie · 12-02-2019 2:32pm

animaal wrote: »

You appear to support the economic policies of Renua and the PDs. However, almost nobody voted for Renua. Their social policies were considered more important. And people stopped voting for the PDs, leading to their collapse.

Personally, I think it was good to have balance - both the economic left-wing and the economic right-wing represented. But you can't have everything. If a person votes based on social policies, they can't really complain that their economic position isn't represented.

It is interesting how many people give out about lack of money etc but then go ahead and vote for the established parties, and as someone (possibly yourself) mentioned sf and lab would be far worse for the country economically.
I think if the pds came back now they would do well. Renua not so much due to their medieval outlook on social matters.

eagle eye · 12-02-2019 2:32pm

Nice time to start prefictong that we'll need another bail out and saying it'll be on the nurses when we all know that if and when it's required it'll be because of a hard border.

Wanderer78 · 12-02-2019 2:35pm

eagle eye wrote:

Nice time to start prefictong that we'll need another bail out and saying it'll be on the nurses when we all know that if and when it's required it'll be because of a hard border.

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

eagle eye · 12-02-2019 2:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote:

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

I'm not talking about the past, I'm talking about the future.
People on here suggesting that the nurses getting money will lead to another bailout which it won't. There is a possibility that a hard border might lead to that happening but these guys will be blaming the nurses.

salonfire · 12-02-2019 3:01pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

Yes. Banks needed to be bailed out which we probably could have funded.

But the country itself needed to be bailed out because of the chronic overspending.

Please be clear which bailout you are referring to and stop muddying the waters.

daithi7 · 12-02-2019 3:05pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Once again, it was actually the rapid rise of private debt that caused the need for the global bailouts

Yes it was private debt, unsustainable public expenditure and public debt that lead to this country going bankrupt less than 10 years ago.

And here we are again with public capital projects tripling in cost, public service pay deals being broken and massive recurring current expenditure being funded from unsustainable once off technical tax takes and annual budget (particularly health budget)overruns.

We are heading for a fall!!

12-02-2019 3:29pm

alloywheel wrote: »

Recycled money? Do not give up your day job and take up economics.

Eh? I have a background in this area, I even used to mod the economics forum here based on that. I don't see the problem with the colloquialism I used.

JUst trying to point out that only NCBs and, in some cases, banks create new money. The Private Sector, or 99% of it, doesn't.

Twenty Grand · 12-02-2019 3:53pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Eh? I have a background in this area, I even used to mod the economics forum here based on that. I don't see the problem with the colloquialism I used.

JUst trying to point out that only NCBs and, in some cases, banks create new money. The Private Sector, or 99% of it, doesn't.

Don't worry about that lad. The only numbers he likes are makey uppey ones.

Old diesel · 12-02-2019 4:09pm

tretorn wrote: »

I know they do but maybe they should do the entire training on the wards.

There are lots of people going into nursing becasue they can with the CAO points they have in their leaving cert. Many dont have the interest of stamina for whats involved and if they were on the wards continously they would drop out by October of first year. Whats happening now with the ones who dont like the course is that they are sticking it out hoping at least to get to Dubai or Australia and then maybe using the degree to get into another career. Meanwhile there are other people more suited to nursing who cant get onto degree courses because their points are too low but really the HSE would benefit more if all nurses were actually trained on the wards from day one. This would definitely concentrate minds from day one, points required for nursing would drop substantially and you might get a better candidate more suited to the hard slog nursing requires.

So basically in 2019 - you want to deliberately downgrade someones qualification to attempt to restrict their career options in the future, pay them less and basically work the crap out of them to see who is still standing.

hawkelady · 12-02-2019 5:18pm

alloywheel wrote: »

Nurses here in Ireland are among the highest paid nurses in the world, that has not worked in delivering a world class health service and paying them even more will not help the country, it will just add to the national debt even more, which has increased to approx 200 billion, the highest it has ever been, higher even than when the IMF / UK bailed us out the last time. Bring back the Troika to run things!

Are you a goldfish ? I’ve no idea why you constantly repeat the crap you do ... maybe a nurse who is 4 yrs qualified will increase your dosage , seeing as she’s a little richer today !!
Please , do me a favor and don’t reply with a link to the crap you spout. Please ...

daithi7 · 12-02-2019 5:25pm

hawkelady wrote: »

Are you a goldfish ? I’ve no idea why you constantly repeat the crap you do ... maybe a nurse who is 4 yrs qualified will increase your dosage , seeing as she’s a little richer today !!
Please , do me a favor and don’t reply with a link to the crap you spout. Please ...

With all due respect to you, I think you are the goldfish, who keeps repeating and spouting crap ( your weasel words), along with a lot of totally unnecessary personal jibes while you're at it. You are truly obnoxious.

P.s. I'm just fighting fire with fire here to illustrate to you how it feels!!

Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

Comments