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04-10-2018, 00:34   #31
SPDUB
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People saying that it is not the staffs fault that the management have failed and for that reason the routes should not be tendered out, are saying in a roundabout way that the jobs of the staff who won't work the rotas are more important than the public who BE is supposed to be serving, who may be close to losing their own jobs for being constantly late for work.
That's an interesting interpenetration of what I wrote .

I've no problem with people losing their job if there are good reasons .

I just believe that it should start at the top and not the usual ordinary worker level it usually does when management screw up

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You can bet your life that if Go-Ahead came in and provided a sub-standard service the same people would be the first ones to say that because of poor performance they should be stripped of the contract, but when their own side does the same, then they suddenly find a different rule-book.
Interesting use of the term "own side" there .It seems I 've been labelled an uncritical BE supporter .

I've no problem with the same rule book being applied to everyone I just want it applied equally to everyone .
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Cancelling entire services for almost full days, like yesterday on the 126 service, is not minimum impact.
And I never said it was

What i wrote was all companies can have similar issues with staff yet in most cases it has minimum if any impact on the pubic .
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04-10-2018, 08:15   #32
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Surely there should be a better performance on the outlined routes when Go-Ahead take over their share of BE routes next year. This should free up buses and drivers surely.
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04-10-2018, 13:34   #33
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Surely there should be a better performance on the outlined routes when Go-Ahead take over their share of BE routes next year. This should free up buses and drivers surely.
I just heard word today from an official, Dublin itself has 12 drivers more than required but now there's an issue of not enough vehicles to cover all the work.

Couldn't make this crap up
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04-10-2018, 14:27   #34
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What are the issues in Cork? Patrick St. was closed to cars and this caused great consternation amongst some locals but I'm sure there are greater issues other than Patrick Street?
My parents live on a city Bus route in Cork. It is supposed to have a frequency of every 20 minutes. The vast majority of time you'd have to wait an hour for a bus to turn up. I'm not making it up, it is truly shocking.

And it isn't a new problem, it has been going on for decades, as long as I can remember. Hardly anyone uses buses in Cork because they are so unreliable.

Then there was the terrible BE Expressway service between Cork and Dublin. Only a coach every two hours, no toilets, took 5 hours and worst of all, no service after 6pm, sure why would anyone want to travel between Irelands two biggest cities after 6 Needless to say that most people were delighted down there with the introduction of the Aircoach and GoBE services.

In fairness, things have improved since the NTA took over, at least on some routes. The private coaches are obviously a VAST improvement. Introduction of Double Deckers on some routes was badly needed (ironically BE didn't want them, NTA seemingly forced it on them), some routes now have 10 minute frequencies and actually seem to be operating to that, RTPI while far from perfect is at least still something, Leap card, the new NTA bus stops and shelters look great and are a vast improvement.

So a lot of good work done, but still loads to do and improve and still some routes are terribly neglected.

BTW On Patrick Street, they have tried again and it seems to be going really well now. Many routes have been re-routed down Patrick Street and they seem to be flying done the road and seemingly BE are seeing big reductions in journey time and passenger numbers up. So looking to be a success now. The original issues were really just a small number of very vocal traders. Most people were actually very much for it, including some of the largest traders.
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04-10-2018, 16:13   #35
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Surely there should be a better performance on the outlined routes when Go-Ahead take over their share of BE routes next year. This should free up buses and drivers surely.
Heard today from a good source that the NTA are considering a half hourly NX style service to the Midlands (Mullingar (MX) apparently) to commence early next year (initially changing to an hourly service in 2 weeks time) after GA takes the Kildare corridor meaning it will not free up any drivers or buses. Have you heard anything about this Kopparberg.

Also remember that GA are taking 10 buses from BE. Despite the NTA previously stating that GA would get LDs, rumour from an NTA source is it will now be LFs, this would not surprise me as the original plan for Wrights buses has apparently changed to Volvo UK so nothing is set concrete yet regarding transfers I imagine.

Last edited by GM228; 05-10-2018 at 07:24.
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04-10-2018, 16:16   #36
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Originally Posted by Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime View Post
I just heard word today from an official, Dublin itself has 12 drivers more than required but now there's an issue of not enough vehicles to cover all the work.

Couldn't make this crap up
Does not surprise me, 17 2008 LDs are still long term laid up due to corrosion issues.

The 2017 and 2018 single and double LDV orders only made up for vehicles coming out of service due to age and not other vehicle issues.
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04-10-2018, 16:23   #37
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I'm a big supporter of publicly owned transport systems, but at times my patience is tested.
A person I know lives on the Cork side of Blarney and, according to the timetable , should have a bus (215) every half hour in and out of the city.
For health reasons, he is totally dependent on the service to get him to and from work. In the last few days, the buses going to Blarney have been routed through Patrick street, having previously used the bus station at Parnell place as their city centre main stop. All this week, it's been very much hit and miss. Buses are so undependable, he's had to get a taxi a few times as his job would be in jeopardy. Earlier this week, he waited 55 minutes for a bus in an almost traffic free Patrick street, luckily that was the journey home.
He doesn't care who is at fault, he just wants a bus service he can depend on, public or private.
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04-10-2018, 22:09   #38
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I'm a big supporter of publicly owned transport systems, but at times my patience is tested.
....
He doesn't care who is at fault, he just wants a bus service he can depend on, public or private.
The sad truth of the matter is, the reason you rarely hear complaints about buses from Cork (and I suspect the rest of the country) is because the service there has been so bad, for so long (as in decades) that the people of Cork have long given up on it!

It is so unreliable that anyone who can, drives, no point in even thinking about buses in Cork, they are so bad. Only people like your friend, students and OAP's who have no other choice take the bus.

I would go as far as to say most people in Cork don't even know what a good bus service looks like and that you can actually rely on it! Why complain, when you don't know there can even be better.

Growing up in Cork, I certainly didn't know. We just knew that the buses were terrible and instead mostly just walked the 25 minutes to town, rather then wait for the bus that never turned up. It was only when I moved to Dublin did I realise what a half decent bus service looked like.

I mean the reason why you hear lots of complaints about DB or BE in the Dublin region, is because so many people actually rely on buses in Dublin. Something like 50% of people get into Dublin by bus every day. So when things go wrong, you'll naturally hear about it.

In Cork, the service is so bad, the numbers using it are in single digits. Everyone in Cork who can just drives. 2 buses in a row not turning up, no one in Cork would even think of complaining, sure that is normal!! It is Stockholm syndrome.

DB in fairness to them, while far from perfect, offer a pretty decent service. But BE is just a disaster, I think folks in Dublin don't realise just how bad it is and don't realise comparatively how lucky they are. The rest of the country just takes for granted how bad BE is and you get your driving license as quickly as possible. It really is a pretty sad state of affairs.
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04-10-2018, 22:14   #39
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Word is that this extra 10% may be just the start of an expanded tendering programme.
they would go for 100% if they thought they could get away with it, so may is a redundant term there..
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04-10-2018, 22:43   #40
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Originally Posted by richiepurgas View Post
I'm a big supporter of publicly owned transport systems, but at times my patience is tested.
....
He doesn't care who is at fault, he just wants a bus service he can depend on, public or private.
The sad truth of the matter is, the reason you rarely hear complaints about buses from Cork (and I suspect the rest of the country) is because the service there has been so bad, for so long (as in decades) that the people of Cork have long given up on it!

It is so unreliable that anyone who can, drives, no point in even thinking about buses in Cork, they are so bad. Only people like your friend, students and OAP's who have no other choice take the bus.

I would go as far as to say most people in Cork don't even know what a good bus service looks like and that you can actually rely on it! Why complain, when you don't know there can even be better.

Growing up in Cork, I certainly didn't know. We just knew that the buses were terrible and instead mostly just walked the 25 minutes to town, rather then wait for the bus that never turned up. It was only when I moved to Dublin did I realise what a half decent bus service looked like.

I mean the reason why you hear lots of complaints about DB or BE in the Dublin region, is because so many people actually rely on buses in Dublin. Something like 50% of people get into Dublin by bus every day. So when things go wrong, you'll naturally hear about it.

In Cork, the service is so bad, the numbers using it are in single digits. Everyone in Cork who can just drives. 2 buses in a row not turning up, no one in Cork would even think of complaining, sure that is normal!! It is Stockholm syndrome.

DB in fairness to them, while far from perfect, offer a pretty decent service. But BE is just a disaster, I think folks in Dublin don't realise just how bad it is and don't realise comparatively how lucky they are. The rest of the country just takes for granted how bad BE is and you get your driving license as quickly as possible. It really is a pretty sad state of affairs.
Waterford is worse. There's a bus stop outside me mother's house that never sees a passenger, buses go past usually empty. The drivers treat the job like an extension of their social life, the management are ineffective so the vicious circle since time began keeps spinning. And wasn't Waterford where BE "won" the tendering and where everything was going to become brilliant. Buy an all day ticket and the driver will look at you like you're cracked, "are you sure you're going make enough trips ??" !!!!
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04-10-2018, 22:58   #41
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It's riddiculous that change is still given on Cork services and all Leap transactions have to be done through the driver. Cork would be the perfect trial for cashless driver interaction free flat fare services considering it is a fairly small city which a flat fare would be fairly doable in the short run before being extended to Dublin.

Also BE shouldn't be allowed allocate coaches to city bus routes it shows a fairly low standard and makes the service inacessible to wheelchair users. I can't think of anywhere in Europe where coaches would be allocated to city bus routes. Also why aren't the double deckers in Cork the same spec as DB ones with lower seats and middle doors.
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04-10-2018, 23:18   #42
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they would go for 100% if they thought they could get away with it, so may is a redundant term there..
There is no evidence for this.
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05-10-2018, 11:06   #43
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What reasons are behind this shortfall?
Is it lack of buses, drivers or lack of investment by the NTA in providing the facilities to successfully operate these services?

Didn't that service go to another operator who were all about price and not a quality service? I don't know too many who have travelled this route but I have and it's an absolute joke with significant traffic congestion!

https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...reann-kildare/
I'm still awaiting a response?
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07-10-2018, 16:49   #44
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I heard today from a Dublin based driver that 'Go Ahead' can't get the drivers.
He said that they took on a number of drivers with a 'B' Licence, provided the appropriate training but they didn't make it at the test stage!

So if anyone thinks that they can drive a bus, there's obviously more to it than meets the eye! These drivers deserve all our support in their endeavours to maintain a good service and not to have it undermined by a yellow pack government!
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29-12-2018, 00:17   #45
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Originally Posted by Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime View Post
The NTA have taken a step back and reduced it from 10% to just 5% only tendering out the 133, 101 , 101x routes.

The 103 / 103x / 105 / 105x are to remain with BÉ
Source?

Only last month the NTA proposal stated otherwise.
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Source?

Only last month the NTA proposal stated otherwise.
2 days ago

https://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eirean...73186-Dec2018/

The journal may not be the last word in news reporting but there it is anyway.
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I notice that some outlets have said this, however there has been nothing from the NTA in terms of quotes or a press release to confirm it. There's quotes from Ann Graham about other stuff, but not this.
Just coming back to this topic (not sure if this has been brought up since), which we discussed in another thread.

The NTA recently published the contract award intention in the Official Journal of the EU (OJ). The notice (which gives the below link) confirmed that some routes will be competatively tendered from 2021.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/pub...ion-contracts/

More importantly it also confimred the 10% has indeed been reduced to 5%.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-..._end_2021.docx

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Bus services which will only remain within the Direct Award Contract until end 2021 and which will be competitively tendered and thereafter removed from the Direct Award and provided under a separate contract by end 2021

Table A2: Routes for Competitive Tendering, for operation by successful tenderer in 2021

Dublin Commuter (Coastal and Wexford West Wicklow)101Dublin – Dublin Airport - Balbriggan - Drogheda
101XWilton Tce - Drogheda - Termon Abbey
133Dublin Airport – Dublin city centre - Ashford – Wicklow - Gorey
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