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10-01-2018, 08:13   #2716
strandroad
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That's not what my post was addressing
But that's what Deneuve understands as "hitting on". It's not asking someone out for coffee and getting a yes or a no. It's physical attempts.
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10-01-2018, 08:23   #2717
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But that's what Deneuve understands as "hitting on". It's not asking someone out for coffee and getting a yes or a no. It's physical attempts.
Playing devil's advocate here but Deneuve's preference as a woman seems to be the prospect of unsolicited clandestine touchy advances. It's about choices. She chooses to live like that and found at least 100 other French women to sign up!

*HR department note: I do not support unsolicited clandestine touchy advances in the workplace
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10-01-2018, 08:25   #2718
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I'd bet it's been a good while since anybody attempted to "hit on" Deneuve, as she understands it. (And no, not because "she's an old hag", but because of her iconic status in France.)

She was young in a completely different era, and in France to boot. What we consider dangerous sexual harassment now, was actually deemed merely clumsy attempts at seduction then - it was a very chauvinistic society by present-day standards.

She probably just forgot that time has (supposedly ) moved on since the days of her being a young actress having to physically fend off every perv with any amount of power in the film industry. Which given the pervading culture of the time, she probably considered just a part of the job.
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10-01-2018, 08:27   #2719
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Originally Posted by suicide_circus View Post
Playing devil's advocate here but Deneuve's preference as a woman seems to be the prospect of unsolicited clandestine touchy advances. It's about choices. She chooses to live like that and found at least 100 other French women to sign up!
Lovely but it's the kind of preference that is best resolved by finding someone who shares the same kink, or a professional
Not by advocating it to be a standard for everyone.
It's just like spanking!
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10-01-2018, 08:50   #2720
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I'd bet it's been a good while since anybody attempted to "hit on" Deneuve, as she understands it. (And no, not because "she's an old hag", but because of her iconic status in France.)

She was young in a completely different era, and in France to boot. What we consider dangerous sexual harassment now, was actually deemed merely clumsy attempts at seduction then - it was a very chauvinistic society by present-day standards.

She probably just forgot that time has (supposedly ) moved on since the days of her being a young actress having to physically fend off every perv with any amount of power in the film industry. Which given the pervading culture of the time, she probably considered just a part of the job.
So in short you're using internalised misogyny as an excuse. She's not allowed an opinion, one which 100 other women share. Okayyyy...

My grandmother lived to be a 100, she changed her attitude toward things very often during her life, adapting with the times and changing her attitude as she learned and experienced changes in the world.
Deneuve has been at the forefront of feminism, long before most of these ladies who denounce her now were even born.
Shes the one who said 'A woman has to be intelligent, have charm, a sense of humor, and be kind. It's the same qualities I require from a man.'
What they are angry about is over a 100 women, and many more who did not sign, are not cowtowing to their whims. That the 'Timesup' and 'Metoo' Movements are young, and already falling apart is what's been taken away from this.
There is a difference between sexual harassment and flirting. We all know the difference. But empirical feminists see no difference.
And just as an example, why did so few women come forward to defend Tessa Thomson, a woman of colour, when she was essentially forced to apologise to Lena Dunham for a genuine grievance? Its the usual blinkers on.
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10-01-2018, 09:06   #2721
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My grandmother lived to be a 100, she changed her attitude toward things very often during her life, adapting with the times and changing her attitude as she learned and experienced changes in the world.
Deneuve has been at the forefront of feminism, long before most of these ladies who denounce her now were even born.
Shes the one who said 'A woman has to be intelligent, have charm, a sense of humor, and be kind. It's the same qualities I require from a man.'
What they are angry about is over a 100 women, and many more who did not sign, are not cowtowing to their whims. That the 'Timesup' and 'Metoo' Movements are young, and already falling apart is what's been taken away from this.
There is a difference between sexual harassment and flirting. We all know the difference. But empirical feminists see no difference.
And just as an example, why did so few women come forward to defend Tessa Thomson, a woman of colour, when she was essentially forced to apologise to Lena Dunham for a genuine grievance? Its the usual blinkers on.
Are you serious?  She can have any opinion she wants but there's no doubt she's a product of her culture and time.  If she says stupid things, she's going to get criticized.  If she and 100 other women want to kiss the butt of creeps, then good riddance to bad rubbish.  She obviously doesn't understand the difference between flirting and harassment.  In conclusion, she's wrong wrong wrong.
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10-01-2018, 09:10   #2722
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Looks like Franco is in a little trouble....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nt-claims.html
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10-01-2018, 09:16   #2723
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One question does arise about this let's wear black "protest" at the Golden Globes. Why didn't the women boycott it en masse? Do similar with the Oscars. Go off and book a room somewhere else that same night. That would send a clear signal they actually wanted change. But then they wouldn't get their face and fashion choices and "bravery" splashed across the wires. I don't think it would even occur to them.
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10-01-2018, 09:29   #2724
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Originally Posted by RabbleRouser2k View Post
So in short you're using internalised misogyny as an excuse. She's not allowed an opinion, one which 100 other women share. Okayyyy...

My grandmother lived to be a 100, she changed her attitude toward things very often during her life, adapting with the times and changing her attitude as she learned and experienced changes in the world.
Deneuve has been at the forefront of feminism, long before most of these ladies who denounce her now were even born.
Shes the one who said 'A woman has to be intelligent, have charm, a sense of humor, and be kind. It's the same qualities I require from a man.'
What they are angry about is over a 100 women, and many more who did not sign, are not cowtowing to their whims. That the 'Timesup' and 'Metoo' Movements are young, and already falling apart is what's been taken away from this.
There is a difference between sexual harassment and flirting. We all know the difference. But empirical feminists see no difference.
And just as an example, why did so few women come forward to defend Tessa Thomson, a woman of colour, when she was essentially forced to apologise to Lena Dunham for a genuine grievance? Its the usual blinkers on.
So, in short, as per Deneuve, a 100 other women, your grandmother and yourself - "trying to steal a kiss" is not sexual harassment. Okaaaay yourself. Only I don't know what all the fuss in Hollywood is about then. Poor misunderstood Harvey, he was only clumsily flirting after all.
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10-01-2018, 09:37   #2725
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One question does arise about this let's wear black "protest" at the Golden Globes. Why didn't the women boycott it en masse? Do similar with the Oscars. Go off and book a room somewhere else that same night. That would send a clear signal they actually wanted change. But then they wouldn't get their face and fashion choices and "bravery" splashed across the wires. I don't think it would even occur to them.
I think that would be fairly contrary to what they're trying to achieve though. They want to be seen, they want their pictures in the papers and they want articles about how they wore black because a big point they're trying to make is that it needs to be talked about. It needs to be visible. That they shouldn't have to hide. Many of them also brought women's rights activists as their guests, and many in their interviews on the red carpet vocalised issues such as calling out E! directly for a female presenter who left because her male co-presenter was getting paid far more than her for the same job.

There are many forms of protest, and boycotting it would have obviously been a viable one. But I don't think there's an issue with the way they did go about it. It's having their cake and eating it too in many regards, but I don't think it's an issue.
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10-01-2018, 09:39   #2726
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Originally Posted by Wibbs View Post
One question does arise about this let's wear black "protest" at the Golden Globes. Why didn't the women boycott it en masse? Do similar with the Oscars. Go off and book a room somewhere else that same night. That would send a clear signal they actually wanted change. But then they wouldn't get their face and fashion choices and "bravery" splashed across the wires. I don't think it would even occur to them.
To voluntarily remove themselves and give field to who wanted them removed, blackballed or controlled? That's illogical.
What I would like to see is the exact opposite, the likes of Sorvino or Judd or Rapp or Sciorra invited and speaking, showing that they are still in the fold. I didn't follow the event and don't know if they were there, but they should. Perhaps they didn't want to.
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10-01-2018, 10:00   #2727
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I think that would be fairly contrary to what they're trying to achieve though. They want to be seen, they want their pictures in the papers and they want articles about how they wore black because a big point they're trying to make is that it needs to be talked about. It needs to be visible. That they shouldn't have to hide.
That's why I added the bit about holding their own get together.

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What I would like to see is the exact opposite, the likes of Sorvino or Judd or Rapp or Sciorra invited and speaking, showing that they are still in the fold. I didn't follow the event and don't know if they were there, but they should. Perhaps they didn't want to.
IIRC Judd was there, well she'll turn up to any protest she agrees with. Never mind she's a bit "troubled". This is the same Judd that has compared that eejit Trump winning the presidency to her being molested as a child and that the Trump result was worse. Don;t think the other names were there. I'd imagine if they were they'd be front and centre in the pics of the event.
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10-01-2018, 13:35   #2728
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One question does arise about this let's wear black "protest" at the Golden Globes. Why didn't the women boycott it en masse? Do similar with the Oscars. Go off and book a room somewhere else that same night. That would send a clear signal they actually wanted change. But then they wouldn't get their face and fashion choices and "bravery" splashed across the wires. I don't think it would even occur to them.
I wondered that too, but on another forum saw the point being made that this was an awards ceremony for their work too so why should they miss out on that due to the actions of others.

That said, the black dresses thing seemed to me to be little more than a Facebook temporary filter to virtue signal and in reality doing very little to change the actual problem. And the gesture lost any credibility when all those in the black dresses stood up for a standing ovation for Kirk Douglas, and applauded James Franco and other men on the night who have similar allegations to the ones Spacey and Weinstein faced.
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10-01-2018, 13:38   #2729
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To voluntarily remove themselves and give field to who wanted them removed, blackballed or controlled? That's illogical.
What I would like to see is the exact opposite, the likes of Sorvino or Judd or Rapp or Sciorra invited and speaking, showing that they are still in the fold. I didn't follow the event and don't know if they were there, but they should. Perhaps they didn't want to.
Ashley Judd was at the Globes but not sure if she was ever on stage though
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10-01-2018, 13:47   #2730
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http://www.vulture.com/2018/01/tessa...na-dunham.html

Lena Dunham's in the 'TimesUp' movement? But she's a molester, and rape defender. And its noticeable that the
'Non white' ladies are being treated like crud.

The Times Up movement is already falling apart. Im even reminded of how the 'Gun Control' movement, despite the shooting of Gabby Giffords 7 years ago, fell to pieces within months.
I'm thinking more along the lines of other movements which originated on/gained traction through Twitter, such as #Occupy or #Black(/insert minority group here)LivesMatter. The extremes of those movements (communists/anarchists for the former, Mugabe Did Nothing Wrong/Fuck White People-types for the latter) got amplified by their opponents and the moderates melted away.
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