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The Irish language

124

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,630 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    The reason for the disinterest is you can do pretty much everything through English here, bar a small number of jobs that require Irish.

    I'm not convinced making it fun works, you can have any number of 'cool vids' of modern songs sung in the medium and it's cool for about 15 mins until the next viral video comes along.


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭frosty123


    i hear people say from time to time..oh we must keep irish alive cause its a beautiful language...no its not

    italian, french and english (if its spoken properly) are beautiful languages..irish sounds like someone choking on tinfoil,

    its gammy


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    The reason for the disinterest is you can do pretty much everything through English here, bar a small number of jobs that require Irish.

    Almost all of which are make-work non-jobs paid for by the taxpayer.
    Remember when FF thought it was a great wheeze to make Irish an official EU language? Just because it's the EU as a whole paying for it, not just us, doesn't make it right. But if it gets votes in the west for FF then the end justifies the means...
    I'm not convinced making it fun works, you can have any number of 'cool vids' of modern songs sung in the medium and it's cool for about 15 mins until the next viral video comes along.

    They tried that in the 70s, seriously. Didn't work then either!

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭jimbobaloobob


    When do the poll results become available?


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭madbeanman


    Almost all of which are make-work non-jobs paid for by the taxpayer.
    Remember when FF thought it was a great wheeze to make Irish an official EU language? Just because it's the EU as a whole paying for it, not just us, doesn't make it right. But if it gets votes in the west for FF then the end justifies the means...

    A job in an t-Údarás is literally a job focused on creating more jobs or a job focused on providing community supports in rural Ireland.

    Do people who live in Gaeltacht areas not deserve services or jobs?

    Should people with the language not be employed to provide these things?

    People in the Gaeltacht are just people. They are not automatically language activists, they are just people raised with a language who naturally speak it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,876 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    The reason for the disinterest is you can do pretty much everything through English here, bar a small number of jobs that require Irish.

    I'm not convinced making it fun works, you can have any number of 'cool vids' of modern songs sung in the medium and it's cool for about 15 mins until the next viral video comes along.

    Well, if forcing them doesn't work and making it fun doesn't work, it's dead.

    Honestly comes across at this point that you don't care whether Irish lives or dies or the students benefit or don't, as long as it's manadatory. For some reason - any reason will do - I'm guessing because you don't like kids at this point. Or the language it would appear.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    madbeanman wrote:
    Do people who live in Gaeltacht areas not deserve services or jobs?

    The problem is how many of these jobs will be done through Irish? When TG4 started covering Wimbledon they had to make up new terms to cover tennis. If Irish struggles with a sport how the hell can it be used for anything technical(require a 3rd level degree) when all reference material will be in English. I know in accountancy which isn't as technical as a science based subject, good look getting accounting standards and related materials in Irish. Never mind someone who is proficient enough in both accountancy and Irish and who will make a decision based on this knowledge without reverting to English. And that's before you go near science or engineering based fields, which are far more technical.

    All you are doing is diluting Gaeltachts by bringing in more English speakers and even further encouraging the speaking of English.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Well, if forcing them doesn't work and making it fun doesn't work, it's dead.

    Honestly comes across at this point that you don't care whether Irish lives or dies or the students benefit or don't, as long as it's manadatory. For some reason - any reason will do - I'm guessing because you don't like kids at this point. Or the language it would appear.

    Making it easy might work though. If they just study conversational irish and slowly increase over years then it might be possible. But they force feeding of irish with what some define as irish culture hasn't worked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,849 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Glad we're finally clear about me apparently never clearing up what age I was talking about when I specifically said 'Leaving Cert'.

    So ultimately, the point is to teach them 'life isn't fair'?

    I'd argue we should set the goals of both our education system and the language a little higher, but that's just me.


    1/10 . Must try harder


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    madbeanman wrote: »
    Do people who live in Gaeltacht areas not deserve services or jobs?

    Yes they do.

    Do they deserve a far greater spend per capita simply because of the language they (claim to) speak?

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    Interesting article from the Examiner on the experience in Wales versus Ireland.

    https://amp.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/finding-our-voice-looking-to-wales-to-save-the-irish-language-356769.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    astrofool wrote: »
    I'm guessing something like "It was fine to study Irish in my day and it was only ~1 hour per day Monday-Friday, thus it should be fine for everyone to lose an hour a day during school, and everyone complaining would have done nothing worthwhile with the extra time anyway so it should stay the way it is, for some reason".
    Irish is mandatory. If you don't like it, tough shit. Life isn't fair. If a person feels that they'd be doing neuroscience rather than emptying bins because they had to do a few hours a week of Irish then that is probably to be expected. The thickness of the person to lead them to believe that is the same thickness that held them back. Not fecking Irish

    For my next trick, the lotto numbers... :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,876 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    1/10 . Must try harder

    Ah, the pigeon-on-the-chessboard gambit. Did not see that one coming. Looks like I'll have to take psychic lessons from Astrofool....

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    About a billion euro a year's worth. Think of what we could usefully do with that money.

    Where did you get that figure?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    feargale wrote: »
    Where did you get that figure?

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/ourview/the-irish-language--throwing-good-money-after-bad-225250.html
    It is estimated that we spend something around €1bn a year just teaching Irish. Other programmes add to that cost.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,630 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Well, if forcing them doesn't work and making it fun doesn't work, it's dead.

    Honestly comes across at this point that you don't care whether Irish lives or dies or the students benefit or don't, as long as it's manadatory. For some reason - any reason will do - I'm guessing because you don't like kids at this point. Or the language it would appear.

    Guess what hun. I really don't care at this stage. Languages have lived, flourished and lapsed into disuse...no one died and life went on. If people don't want to use it for anything but in education or as a linguistic plaything, it's as good as dead.

    I think we have been codding ourselves as a nation that it is the 'first official language' when public signage is riddled with mistakes and you have people in favour of it being compulsory in schools yet won't lift a finger to learn or speak it themselves. I suppose if it feeds a mini industry of vested interests and lobby groups it will continue to receive funding to prop it up, for good or ill.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    But that would mean facing up to the fact that for most people, it is a foreign language to all intents and purposes i.e. it's not spoken in their home. You can't expect a political system that still pretends Irish is the first language of the nation to face up to facts. This pretence and head-in-the-sand attitude has ensured that all language promotion efforts since the foundation of the state have failed.

    Actually on this. There is a free support pack of Irish children's book that you can request from the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht if you have young children. I applied for this a couple of years back, explaining that I don't speak Irish but would like to help my preschool aged son so he could have a taste of the language before starting school. I got a detailed reply in Irish with no English translation. It was so utterly rude and elitist. Someone explains they have little to no understanding of the language but are interested in helping their child do better and they reply in a way that they knew I wouldn't understand. There doesn't seem to be any real interest in helping people come to the language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 eoin317


    Just sent off a mail for the support pack, thanks for the info iguana!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,811 ✭✭✭Tigerandahalf


    eoin317 wrote: »
    Just sent off a mail for the support pack, thanks for the info iguana!

    We have the pack. There are some lovely books and cds in it. For free!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,876 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    To me this kind of proves the point that, if presented in a more interesting fun way and not pushed on people, people WILL have more of an interest in speaking it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

    On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.
    Have you ever looked in a mirror?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭Filmer Paradise


    deirdremf wrote: »
    No problem with the language myself. Anybody who wants to learn it is welcome to it & more power to them.

    On the other hand I'm utterly disgusted by the way the language is thought in schools, the funding it sucks up, & the dogmatic nature of some of it's supporters.
    Have you ever looked in a mirror?
    What’s that supposed to mean?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Greyfox wrote: »
    But I'm not as im still p*ssed off with all the hours I spent learning it that were such a waste of time. French or German would be more beneficial. We need to stop teaching it from a textbook and actually speak the language, we need to change the way it's taught NOW
    Who stopped you learning French and German?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    deirdremf wrote: »
    Who stopped you learning French and German?

    Nobody, the best time to learn a language is when your young and were at a disadvantage that we don't learn a useful 2nd language when we're young like the rest of Europe do.




  • I lived in Wales about 30 years ago and found that it was common to hear Welsh spoken in pubs and in shops etc. People thought nothing of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Anyway we're talking about Irish: so even if core subjects is decided; why Irish? What does mandatory Irish offer a fifteen year old student who has studied the language and wants to drop it in favor of something he gets something more from?
    Cos this is Ireland maybe?
    To give you a more specific reason, the names of most of the places around the country have no meaning outside the Irish language.
    All sorts of history, geography, legend etc is contained in the names.
    With Irish you might understand some of these references, and learn something more about the place you live.

    You could also learn and enjoy some of the thousands of songs and poems, novels and short stories written in the language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 Axenti


    I'd say all the foreigners would leave the country if Irish would be the only spoken language!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Nobody, the best time to learn a language is when your young and were at a disadvantage that we don't learn a useful 2nd language when we're young like the rest of Europe do.
    Personally, I think you've absolutely no idea of what you're saying here.
    1. the best time to learn a language is when you have a use for it
    2. Irish is a useful language - although maybe not to you; your loss
    3. most Irish people learn a third language at secondary school; I wonder how well you learned that language?

    How's your English? Have a look at the 2 bits I highlighted in your post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,854 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Its mandatory ...
    ... because this is the choice we as a political entity have made, and all polls and surveys continue to suggest that our choice as a nation has not changed.
    It's also very easy to get an exemption if you know which health professional to go to.

    Fill out a couple of forms and bingo, you've freed up hours of your child's school day to study something else that's actually useful.
    Really? like skive off behind the bicycle shed to smoke a fag or a joint?
    Cos don't fool yourself, that is very often what happens when kids have a free hour.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,876 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    deirdremf wrote: »
    Cos this is Ireland maybe?
    To give you a more specific reason, the names of most of the places around the country have no meaning outside the Irish language.
    All sorts of history, geography, legend etc is contained in the names.
    With Irish you might understand some of these references, and learn something more about the place you live.

    You could also learn and enjoy some of the thousands of songs and poems, novels and short stories written in the language.

    All good reasons to learn Irish if you wanted to, but not for Irish to be mandatory.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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