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Work life balance in the USA

  • 21-11-2020 8:01pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭


    I've long considered wanting to move to the US at some point in my life. I recognise it has some serious flaws, but my main gripe about the country is with the lack of annual leave the US (and Canada) both have. Am I right in saying the US has NO guaranteed paid leave whatsoever and it has be negotiated with an employer before hand? I also read that approximately 25% of Americans don't get ANY paid leave whatsoever? I think the average American only gets just 10 days off a year? In Canada its not much better either with 2 weeks only (and wages are also lower than the US).

    AUS/NZ appear to have a similar work-life balance to that of Ireland/UK by contrast. A minimum of 4-5 weeks plus an extra 10-13 paid days for public holidays which is a pretty good deal, so I'm open to moving there also. But the lack of paid work leave is a bit of a drag about North America. I'd be ok with 3 weeks but 10 days or less would depress me.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭arctictree


    I've long considered wanting to move to the US at some point in my life. I recognise it has some serious flaws, but my main gripe about the country is with the lack of annual leave the US (and Canada) both have. Am I right in saying the US has NO guaranteed paid leave whatsoever and it has be negotiated with an employer before hand? I also read that approximately 25% of Americans don't get ANY paid leave whatsoever? I think the average American only gets just 10 days off a year? In Canada its not much better either with 2 weeks only (and wages are also lower than the US).

    AUS/NZ appear to have a similar work-life balance to that of Ireland/UK by contrast. A minimum of 4-5 weeks plus an extra 10-13 paid days for public holidays which is a pretty good deal, so I'm open to moving there also. But the lack of paid work leave is a bit of a drag about North America. I'd be ok with 3 weeks but 10 days or less would depress me.

    If your main concern is time off then just do fixed term contracts or move from job to job and take time off between.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    My uncle worked there what seems to be normal is no paid holiday the first year, 5 the second and 10 after that.

    Its a load of bollix. That LunchMoney Lewis song is an accurate portrayal of life over there. Even if you get a good job and don't buy things on credit you are only a small dose of bad luck away from financial ruin


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,375 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I don't think the US is for you OP if that's your biggest concern.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,705 ✭✭✭✭Hello 2D Person Below


    Yep, there is no statutory paid vacation, it is entirely at the employer's discretion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    I've long considered wanting to move to the US at some point in my life. I recognise it has some serious flaws, but my main gripe about the country is with the lack of annual leave the US (and Canada) both have. Am I right in saying the US has NO guaranteed paid leave whatsoever and it has be negotiated with an employer before hand? I also read that approximately 25% of Americans don't get ANY paid leave whatsoever? I think the average American only gets just 10 days off a year? In Canada its not much better either with 2 weeks only (and wages are also lower than the US).

    AUS/NZ appear to have a similar work-life balance to that of Ireland/UK by contrast. A minimum of 4-5 weeks plus an extra 10-13 paid days for public holidays which is a pretty good deal, so I'm open to moving there also. But the lack of paid work leave is a bit of a drag about North America. I'd be ok with 3 weeks but 10 days or less would depress me.
    What industry do you work in?


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Most jobs in the US give you the public holidays paid but not all. Plenty of people are on part-time hours without any holiday leave; in job that could clearly employ people full time but don't because if they hire them part time they get state supports of various kinds (food stamps, medicare) and can hence 'afford' to work for the awful wages.

    However, if you're in a job that will get you a US visa you'll be getting 20-30 days between AL and public holidays. You're not going there to pack bags in Walmart.


  • Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭vafankillar


    listermint wrote: »
    I don't think the US is for you OP if that's your biggest concern.

    is that you jeff bezos?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    listermint wrote: »
    I don't think the US is for you OP if that's your biggest concern.

    I think your bigger integrated issue is the medical insurance that is often tied to your job - not working leaves you very exposed unless you ate very canny and can afford to provide and bankroll some kind of private insurance without the huge subsidys an employer gives.

    I’d also at the moment be worrying about what a stay in an american hospital could cost you ecen with insurance - there is usually a percentage the sick person has to pay - and unna country where calling an ambulance can cost up to 5k, things cN get very expensive quickly - and thats before you are seen in ICU by 3 kinds of specialists because you sneezed!

    My brother is over there - he has 15 paid holiday days and the option after he is there for X years to buy more holiday days. Frighteningly depressing. They also have a group sick leave scheme where if nobody takes more than 3 sick
    days in a year the whole department gets a extra percentage bonus. It really puts pressure on people to come in- and infect everyone - and drives him mad. Different places have different deals. I was under the impressions holidays were typically paid. I also gather that finding a job with paid maternity leave is as rare as finding an honest politician. But I gather some must exist somewhere.

    I’d be more chosing somewhere to live based on uality of life, or costs, or income and opportunity rather than paid holiday days. As you said Oz, Canada and most of Europe have balanced lifestyles, normal ie close to Our attitudes towards work life balance and paid holidays. Of course if you set up your own company or work in the trades for yourself you can choose your own days/payments spreads. It just depends.

    Teachers still get paid holidays - on permanent contracts - what area are you in OP?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭SharpshooterTom


    What industry do you work in?

    I'm a qualified electrical engineer but I quit the job a while back being a carer for my parents and I'm now considering changing career (so this potential move isn't imminent and a while off yet, but I'm thinking long term about it).
    listermint wrote:
    I don't think the US is for you OP if that's your biggest concern.

    The thing is its really my only gripe because I'm personally ok with healthcare and gun culture (most of the murders take place in crap parts of the major cities), or at least they don't bother me.

    If I could get it up to say 3 weeks off, I'd be ok with that. I don't need 5-6 weeks, but I don't want 5-10 days either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    I've long considered wanting to move to the US at some point in my life. I recognise it has some serious flaws, but my main gripe about the country is with the lack of annual leave the US (and Canada) both have. Am I right in saying the US has NO guaranteed paid leave whatsoever and it has be negotiated with an employer before hand? I also read that approximately 25% of Americans don't get ANY paid leave whatsoever? I think the average American only gets just 10 days off a year? In Canada its not much better either with 2 weeks only (and wages are also lower than the US).

    AUS/NZ appear to have a similar work-life balance to that of Ireland/UK by contrast. A minimum of 4-5 weeks plus an extra 10-13 paid days for public holidays which is a pretty good deal, so I'm open to moving there also. But the lack of paid work leave is a bit of a drag about North America. I'd be ok with 3 weeks but 10 days or less would depress me.

    As my cousin says, the best place when things are going well, when they ain’t, it’s the loneliest place on the planet. He’s known both sides, his family emigrated there from Dublin when he was about 7, his father died suddenly 6 years later, he was managing a petrol station to studying at night getting to college to study law... he has just retired at 60 with a nice 4 bedroom gaff, pool, sauna, Merc in the drive... but to get there, he seriously broke his back, had to, I’d see it myself over there staying with him, hed set his alarm for 7.00am and not be in the door till after 7.30pm.... the pay is not great either, generally speaking.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,325 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    The regulations might differ from state to state in their federal system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I work for an American company. They used to give the US employees 12 days paid holidays to start off with, but you could build that up to 24 over 6 years (2 days a year of service).

    They now give unlimited PTO to their US employees, which ironically they can’t give here because of our statutory minimum paid leave requirements.

    I think they have a rule that they can’t take more than a week at a time, but I’ve seen people out for 2. They tend to take loads of long weekends, and then a week in the summer, time around Thanksgiving (although as an e-commerce company, that’s actually our busiest time, so bit everyone can take time off then), and then they’re all off over Christmas.

    In the Irish office, we start with 22 days, and can build up to 30 with service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    Roughly 10 days per year, plus some companies give personal days. My husbands gave 5 days which most people tied into the annual leave anyway. But yes annual leave isn't great.

    I would second the opinion that its the best place in the world when things are going well. But I wouldn't like to be there if things were not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    I'm a qualified electrical engineer but I quit the job a while back being a carer for my parents and I'm now considering changing career (so this potential move isn't imminent and a while off yet, but I'm thinking long term about it).



    The thing is its really my only gripe because I'm personally ok with healthcare and gun culture (most of the murders take place in crap parts of the major cities), or at least they don't bother me.

    If I could get it up to say 3 weeks off, I'd be ok with that. I don't need 5-6 weeks, but I don't want 5-10 days either.


    Fair dues to
    you for helping out your folks & putting your career on hold for them. That dosn’t sound like too extreme a goal. With all the big companies with contracts for the defense forces over there I’d imagine it wouldn’t be too difficult to get work in one of the military contract multinationals or big industry - and those types of
    jobs usually come either unionised or with good pay and benefits. Including reasonable paid holidays.

    Anyone I know in Law in any country is a slave.

    Just don’t go doing aNything mad like joining the military - you want to tKe their money not them take your soul and mentaL health - or legs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,050 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    To be honest I think America is a great place to visit but not to live.

    The only way id move there to live is if I had wealth, I know people who live there and have some relations there too and it's brutal.

    People slave away working ridiculous hours, poor pay, little to no security and god forbid you get sick, all to negative for me personally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes



    If I could get it up to say 3 weeks off, I'd be ok with that. I don't need 5-6 weeks, but I don't want 5-10 days either.
    Any sick days you take gets taken out of those 5- 10 days too ...most people don't realize that.

    I would hate to live in the US.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    To be honest I think America is a great place to visit but not to live.

    The only way id move there to live is if I had wealth, I know people who live there and have some relations there too and it's brutal.

    People slave away working ridiculous hours, poor pay, little to no security and god forbid you get sick, all to negative for me personally.

    Yep, if you’ve a good job and can afford health insurance fine and dandy but imagine you lost your job, you got sick.... over there from what I know it not as here, where everything or most is free.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Strumms wrote: »
    Yep, if you’ve a good job and can afford health insurance fine and dandy but imagine you lost your job, you got sick.... over there from what I know it not as here, where everything or most is free.
    There are some Doctors who don't even accept health insurance for some things. Just cash. Although they are cracking down on it i think.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    In Europe, people work to live.

    In America, you live to work.

    As someone who lived and worked in the USA in the past, I think European countries have it the right way around. In Ireland of course in the 2000s Celtic Tiger/Speculative bubble many saw us going the way of the States, but I think that since then we have moved back towards the European work/life balance ethic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    A lot of people in the states have like three jobs and still no health insurance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,694 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    In Europe, people work to live.

    In America, you live to work.

    As someone who lived and worked in the USA in the past, I think European countries have it the right way around. In Ireland of course in the 2000s Celtic Tiger/Speculative bubble many saw us going the way of the States, but I think that since then we have moved back towards the European work/life balance ethic.

    We have but you only need to see in your own workplace or pop over to the work / jobs forum here to see the number of people advocating the whole live to work ‘experience’ ... business owners, managers ok in the main. But the rest of us need to be resisting that shît.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    In Europe, people work to live.

    In America, you live to work.

    As someone who lived and worked in the USA in the past, I think European countries have it the right way around. In Ireland of course in the 2000s Celtic Tiger/Speculative bubble many saw us going the way of the States, but I think that since then we have moved back towards the European work/life balance ethic.


    It is daft the mentality over there to ""work ones ass off"" perpetually in the hope of some day being able to live the dream. How the phooq can they continue to believe in this scam for so long given all the poverty and trailer parks surrounding them?


    They absolutely idolise the rags-to-riches tale of the lad who worked his way up the corporate ladder completely ignoring the great deal of luck involved


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Strumms wrote: »
    We have but you only need to see in your own workplace or pop over to the work / jobs forum here to see the number of people advocating the whole live to work ‘experience’ ... business owners, managers ok in the main. But the rest of us need to be resisting that shît.
    No one ever died wishing 'OH I WISH I HAD SPENT MORE TIME IN THE OFFICE!':pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    No one ever died wishing 'OH I WISH I HAD SPENT MORE TIME IN THE OFFICE!':pac:

    A lot of people I went to college with including family members (who didn’t go to college) emigrated to the states and all of
    them have good lives, great houses and lifestyles, go on holidays and trips overseas several times a year, most have second homes - bought not inherited, and their kids have the kind of outdoors,BBQ, family friendly littleball lives we see on TV. Its certainly not the deerhunter kind of squalor and hardship painted here. Of course there are pros and cons ( not to mention the old orange issues) and not everybody has a perfect life but of those I know there are far more shining commercial success stories than for those left behind scratching to afford a semi-d for half a million in celtic tiger ireland.

    the OP hs a good qualification & experience in a respected area - no need to put him in a trailerpark eating out of old cans of beans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    They work hard yes but in my experience there is certainly a great social aspect to life. Far more than I’ve experienced living in other parts of Europe or even Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,096 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    If you think 10 days a year is important then you have no business in the US.

    Unless you get into a big multi national and even then you might not be too popular for taking the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,322 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Danzy wrote: »
    If you think 10 days a year is important then you have no business in the US.

    Unless you get into a big multi national and even then you might not be too popular for taking the time.

    Not true - I know a few in big insurance and car hire businesses - they seem to be constantly taking exotic holidays & get home twice a year for 5 or 6 days. Not saying thats 100% typicL nor that they din’t work hard but they do get paid
    holidays.

    I worked with USA multinationals in Ireland 3 times. On two occasions I was dispatched to the states to live & train for few months. I couldn’t believe the cultural difference - here - in Ireland - I woiod ve at my desk by 0730 and still at it by 7 or 8pm most nights. I did and was expected to do conference calls on US timelines and wirked like a linatic on high pressure demanding projects. Over there - San Fran and Washington DC - they sauntered in for 8 or 0830, took lengthy lunchbreaks and had softball leagues and picnics at lunch, and were never at their desks past 5pm. I couldn’t believe it . We had embraced the worst and were being driven like slaves to achieve for our US overlords by Irish management while they were skipping through their lives and drawing better salaries aNd benefits. I’m still getting over that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭walshtipp


    miss.paula wrote: »
    If you work hard and get the head down you can live a life way better than in Ireland, in US you got to write off 10 years of your life and work hard, then you are on the pigs back, you will have a house and life style we can only dream of in Ireland.
    2 car family, huge beautiful house with all mod cons and plenty of spending money, that aint happening here in Ireland

    That's not totally true. In my opinion, you can achieve anything you want in Ireland if you are willing to work hard for it. Progress your career, don't waste money, save and invest. You don't have to look too far here to see large houses with two luxury cars on the drive. Perhaps there are more opportunities in the US, the American dream and all that.

    But it's not fair to say that people do not live good lifestyles in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    I’ve spent some time over in our US office. My experience is they’re great at giving the impression they work non stop - answering emails at 7 in the morning, calling into meetings on their commute into work, stuff that gives the impression of long hours. In reality, they either come in early and then head home early, or they come in later and then head home at a regular time. There was many occasions that I put my head up at 6pm and the whole office was totally empty.

    Another thing I find is that they will not go to a work event that is not on during work hours. In the office over here, we’d often have drinks in the evening/night time - it’s just normal. Over there, it’s “happy hour” at 4.30, then they’ve all scarpered at 5.30. None of them will hang around into their personal time, and none of them will put their hand in their pockets either - work is paying, or they won’t go.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    miss.paula wrote: »
    The difference is in the states Bus drivers, Post men, Council workers are living a life style comparable to the highest earners in Ireland.

    This is in no way accurate. US bus drivers having the same standards of living as people on six figure salaries here? Come on!


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