Opinions on onlyfans and adult entertainment industry

Valresnick · 21-11-2020 9:53pm

Not directly related this topic but fathers of young children - educate them now even if you think they might be too young. Get it into their heads now, repeat it - Do not ever send pics or personal information to people you do not know. Don’t believe anyone on the internet that you haven’t physically seen, and even then still take caution. Don’t fall for all the stupid tricks out there and most importantly protect your body and don’t let anyone take pictures of it.

anewme · 21-11-2020 9:55pm

banie01 wrote: »

Again, this is an activist with a specific aim claiming the hack has happened and there has been widespread dissemination of the claimed pirated, leaked, stolen and otherwise obtained material.

That article is from the 18/11, it's the 21st now and do you know what?
There's still not a peep of this material anywhere?
Why not?

As I've said earlier in thread, if there was such material in the wild?
It would propogate wildly, that's one of the immediate downsides and dangers of digital media.
The genie gets out of the bottle, and can't be put back in.
Except, in this case?
The genie is still invisible.

I'm behind with the news, only heard about the whole thing yesterday night. However, it does say that Gardai are getting in touch with victims (Male and female). So you would expect that to take a bit of time?

Certainly, to use your genie analogy, it cant just go away once the allegations have been made, so there will have to be a follow up.

kippy · 21-11-2020 9:56pm

anewme wrote: »

Part of it push to stop using the term revenge porn.thats where the term image based sexual abuse comes from.

"Revenge porn’ is an outdated term that fails to capture severity of the offence and implies blame should be focused on the victim" - not my words, from another article on the topic.

No I'm not muddying any waters, I'm saying what is being pushed for in legislation,

Image based sexual abuse is far to broad a term. Way to broad a term. But look who am I to disagree with someone who writes articles.
As I said, hopefully common sense breaks out somewhere.

banie01 · 21-11-2020 10:00pm

anewme wrote: »

I'm behind with the news, only heard about the whole thing yesterday night. However, it does say that Gardai are getting in touch with victims (Male and female). So you would expect that to take a bit of time?

Do me a quick favour please?
Quote where it mentions anything about that in the article you posted?

anewme · 21-11-2020 10:04pm

kippy wrote: »

Image based sexual abuse is far to broad a term. Way to broad a term. But look who am I to disagree with someone who writes articles.
As I said, hopefully common sense breaks out somewhere.

The Justice Minister said she will bring proposals to Cabinet which will see the sharing of intimate images without consent become a criminal offence.

Helen McEntee TD said that the recent leak of tens of thousands of images of Irish women "caused so much upset".

In a thread shared on Twitter, she said: "I share that anger and I want people to know that I am determined to act and to introduce tough new laws to ensure that anyone who shares these kinds of images will face serious criminal sanctions."

She added: "This is not just about revenge porn - sharing such images will become a criminal offence, regardless of the motivation of the person who passes them on.

"It will also be irrelevant if consent is given for an intimate image to be taken - I will ensure they can never be shared, even if consent was given for the image to be taken."

It also references Tinder/Whatts App/Only fans, so it does not seen to be seen as a separate issue. I suppose watch this space.

anewme · 21-11-2020 10:07pm

banie01 wrote: »

Do me a quick favour please?
Quote where it mentions anything about that in the article you posted?

“The files that we are talking about pertain mostly to Irish women, with some men, but until we manage to contact all of the victims, we won’t know for sure."

Sorry, it's not Gardai, its the action Group,but same applies, they will have to give an update, it cant just disappear.

Wibbs · 21-11-2020 10:10pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I
Given how people's businesses and private lives are more online than ever, the notion that "don't put something online that you wouldn't share with your granny etc" is out of date.

It's still good advice. If not more applicable today. And crazy thought though it may be, but nobody is forcing anyone to upload their privacy.

banie01 · 21-11-2020 10:16pm

anewme wrote: »

“The files that we are talking about pertain mostly to Irish women, with some men, but until we manage to contact all of the victims, we won’t know for sure."

Sorry, it's not Gardai, its the action Group,but same applies, they will have to give an update, it cant just disappear.

What can't just disappear?
The phantom leak that no-one has seen?
It would actually have to appear somewhere 1st for that to happen.

And the "action group" are the source of this story. It gains them exposure and creates a moral panic that they can exploit.

The legislation McEntee is championing, was drafted by Labour and proposed in 2017 only to be shut down by FG.
FG are retabling the same legislation now with yet to be confirmed amendments.

The convenience of an alleged mass leak, that no-one who doesn't have something to gain or an axe to grind has claimed to have actually seen?

The genie in the bottle, hasn't escaped because at 72hrs + post leak announcement?
We are still at the point that no-one has seen it. At this point a very fair assumption is that no such leak exists.

The legislation around revenge porn, and sharing private photos is sorely needed.
The convenience of its timing?
The paucity of evidence of any of the mass wrong-doing that a currently severely under pressure justice minister has alluded to?
The re-hashing of legislation that wasn't good enough for FG 3yrs ago, but is now?

It awakens the cynic in me.

hynesie08 · 21-11-2020 10:50pm

banie01 wrote: »

What can't just disappear?
The phantom leak that no-one has seen?
It would actually have to appear somewhere 1st for that to happen.

And the "action group" are the source of this story. It gains them exposure and creates a moral panic that they can exploit.

The legislation McEntee is championing, was drafted by Labour and proposed in 2017 only to be shut down by FG.
FG are retabling the same legislation now with yet to be confirmed amendments.

The convenience of an alleged mass leak, that no-one who doesn't have something to gain or an axe to grind has claimed to have actually seen?

The genie in the bottle, hasn't escaped because at 72hrs + post leak announcement?
We are still at the point that no-one has seen it. At this point a very fair assumption is that no such leak exists.

The legislation around revenge porn, and sharing private photos is sorely needed.
The convenience of its timing?
The paucity of evidence of any of the mass wrong-doing that a currently severely under pressure justice minister has alluded to?
The re-hashing of legislation that wasn't good enough for FG 3yrs ago, but is now?

It awakens the cynic in me.

There's a vortex existing at the moment

Twitter claims leak
Media reports on leak using tweets as source
Tweeters link to media report as proof........

I have no interest in seeing these photos, but somebody on twitter saying "there's a folder labeled xyz" doesn't exactly convince me.

Padre_Pio · 21-11-2020 10:51pm

Wibbs wrote: »

It's still good advice. If not more applicable today. And crazy thought though it may be, but nobody is forcing anyone to upload their privacy.

True, but that's the same as saying that no one forces you to go to work every day.

You go to work to benefit yourself, personally, professionally, financially.
You use the internet and social media to benefit yourself in many ways. You should have an expectation of privacy.

Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do something.

Padre_Pio · 21-11-2020 10:53pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

There's a vortex existing at the moment

Twitter claims leak
Media reports on leak using tweets as source
Tweeters link to media report as proof........

I have no interest in seeing these photos, but somebody on twitter saying "there's a folder labeled xyz" doesn't exactly convince me.

Unfortunately this is regular enough. The same thing happened a load of onlyfans pages in Cork maybe last year?

Just hop onto your favourite porn site and search for Irish onlyfans. Won't take you long to find it.

anewme · 21-11-2020 10:55pm

banie01 wrote: »

What can't just disappear?
The phantom leak that no-one has seen?
It would actually have to appear somewhere 1st for that to happen.

And the "action group" are the source of this story. It gains them exposure and creates a moral panic that they can exploit.

The legislation McEntee is championing, was drafted by Labour and proposed in 2017 only to be shut down by FG.
FG are retabling the same legislation now with yet to be confirmed amendments.

The convenience of an alleged mass leak, that no-one who doesn't have something to gain or an axe to grind has claimed to have actually seen?

The genie in the bottle, hasn't escaped because at 72hrs + post leak announcement?
We are still at the point that no-one has seen it. At this point a very fair assumption is that no such leak exists.

The legislation around revenge porn, and sharing private photos is sorely needed.
The convenience of its timing?
The paucity of evidence of any of the mass wrong-doing that a currently severely under pressure justice minister has alluded to?
The re-hashing of legislation that wasn't good enough for FG 3yrs ago, but is now?

It awakens the cynic in me.

You cant just make blanket statements that there is a leak with no real follow up. The Gardai will surely have to come out and confirm or deny it.

There is a requirement for legislation to change/be amended - it's way behind the digital age. And it is wider than the term 'revenge porn'- that term is definitely outdated and does not capture image abuse...ie upskirting, or what happened in the case of Dara Quigley.

banie01 · 21-11-2020 10:59pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Unfortunately this is regular enough. The same thing happened a load of onlyfans pages in Cork maybe last year?

Just hop onto your favourite porn site and search for Irish onlyfans. Won't take you long to find it.

Sharing screen grabs from someone's onlyfans is very common.
The issue is that copyright infringement of people choosing to sell images of themselves is being conflated with revenge porn and child porn.

If the local yummy mummy selling tit-pics is seeking to portray herself as the victim of a sex crime.
Or of a violation on a par with revenge porn, child sexualisation or coercive control via threat of sharing intimate images?
Apologies if you think I'm a little uncouth, but she is **** outta luck.

Copyright infringement is not a sex crime and cannot even be equated as being in the same realm of criminality.
The loss in that instance is solely monetary and more suited to civil than criminal courts.

anewme · 21-11-2020 11:02pm

banie01 wrote: »

Sharing screen grabs from someone's onlyfans is very common.
The issue is that copyright infringement of people choosing to sell images of themselves is being conflated with revenge porn and child porn.

If the local yummy mummy selling tit-pics is seeking to portray herself as the victim of a sex crime.
Or of a violation on a par with revenge porn, child sexualisation or coercive control via threat of sharing intimate images?
Apologies if you think I'm a little uncouth, but she is **** outta luck.

Copyright infringement is not a sex crime and cannot even be equated as being in the same realm of criminality.
The loss in that instance is solely monetary and more suited to civil than criminal courts.

It says here that Discord have today confirmed they have shut down a server and banned a large number of people and will be following up with the relevant authorities.

So it would appear there is a leak?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40086578.html

banie01 · 21-11-2020 11:10pm

anewme wrote: »

You cant just make blanket statements that there is a leak with no real follow up. The Gardai will surely have to come out and confirm or deny it.

Really? You think that? Previous stories following nearly the exact same template have come and gone.
The UCD 200 as an example.

In this instance, the Gardaí have said that

Gardaí investigating the online sharing of so-called “revenge porn” of hundreds of Irish women believe criminal charges are highly unlikely

And even more interesting considering the Victims alliance claim that a large number of social media profiles are identified in the alleged leak

As of Friday afternoon, gardaí had yet to receive an official complaint from a person who had their image uploaded.

So the Gardaí think charges are unlikely, and confirmed that as of yesterday they have received neither a complaint, or very interestingly if you parse out this piece of info...

She said she is in the process of handing all the images the group had gathered to gardaí.

The alleged leaked material has yet to actually be handed over to the Gardaí.
Why would you release a story to the press on the 18th? But still not have ended the evidence of the crime to the Gardaí by the 20th?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-pessimistic-about-bringing-charges-over-revenge-porn-leaks-1.4415105
Quotes taken from this article, which again is reporting 2nd hand info provided by the Victims alliance with zero corroboration of the existence of the leak.
The more one looks for verification or any meat to this story?

The more it looks like Quorn mince.

hynesie08 · 21-11-2020 11:11pm

anewme wrote: »

It says here that Discord have today confirmed they have shut down a server and banned a large number of people.

So it would appear there is a leak?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40086578.html

As soon as Discord became aware of this server we permanently deleted it, identified and banned the approximately 500 users involved, and will co-operate on this matter with Irish authorities subject to applicable law

That's the closest thing to evidence I've seen, but it's still nothing detailed.

anewme · 21-11-2020 11:14pm

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's the closest thing to evidence I've seen, but it's still nothing detailed.

It seems to have only come out today, but it would certainly point towards there definitely being something behind it. They (Discord) would have not said it otherwise.

anewme · 21-11-2020 11:17pm

banie01 wrote: »

Really? You think that? Previous stories following nearly the exact same template have come and gone.
The UCD 200 as an example.

In this instance, the Gardaí have said that

And even more interesting considering the Victims alliance claim that a large number of social media profiles are identified in the alleged leak

So the Gardaí think charges are unlikely, and confirmed that as of yesterday they have received neither a complaint, or very interestingly if you parse out this piece of info...

The alleged leaked material has yet to actually be handed over to the Gardaí.
Why would you release a story to the press on the 18th? But still not have ended the evidence of the crime to the Gardaí by the 20th?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/garda-pessimistic-about-bringing-charges-over-revenge-porn-leaks-1.4415105
Quotes taken from this article, which again is reporting 2nd hand info provided by the Victims alliance with zero corroboration of the existence of the leak.
The more one looks for verification or any meat to this story?

The more it looks like Quorn mince.

The Discord Statement would lead you to believe that there is something behind it.

kippy · 21-11-2020 11:17pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

True, but that's the same as saying that no one forces you to go to work every day.

You go to work to benefit yourself, personally, professionally, financially.
You use the internet and social media to benefit yourself in many ways. You should have an expectation of privacy.

Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do something.

There should be no expectation of privacy on the internet. Literally none. It's the best starting point you can have.
Assume someone is watching and monitoring everything you do.

kippy · 21-11-2020 11:18pm

anewme wrote: »

The Justice Minister said she will bring proposals to Cabinet which will see the sharing of intimate images without consent become a criminal offence.

Helen McEntee TD said that the recent leak of tens of thousands of images of Irish women "caused so much upset".

In a thread shared on Twitter, she said: "I share that anger and I want people to know that I am determined to act and to introduce tough new laws to ensure that anyone who shares these kinds of images will face serious criminal sanctions."

She added: "This is not just about revenge porn - sharing such images will become a criminal offence, regardless of the motivation of the person who passes them on.

"It will also be irrelevant if consent is given for an intimate image to be taken - I will ensure they can never be shared, even if consent was given for the image to be taken."

It also references Tinder/Whatts App/Only fans, so it does not seen to be seen as a separate issue. I suppose watch this space.

It's a very seperate issue and once the DPP legal advice is obtained that will become very obvious

kippy · 21-11-2020 11:20pm

Serious question here but are underage girls selling pictures of themselves on OnlyFans? This is a disgrace if so.

banie01 · 21-11-2020 11:24pm

anewme wrote: »

The Discord Statement would lead you to believe that there is something behind it.

No, it really wouldn't.
It would lead you to believe that discord shut down a group that was in breach of its T&C's yes.

Given that copyright infringement is in breach of those, it still doesn't really indicate anything other than the possibility.

Further to that, it's far better to be proactive as a platform and ban potentially controversial or problematic groups than facilitate them.

The discord statement is standard for the industry, including confirming full co-operation and IP disclosure if requested.

If there is Revenge Porn, or Child images of course all involved should feel the full weight of the law.
Unfortunately, current law really only permits the Child images be prosecuted.

If it's onlyfans content?
That isn't a criminal matter as far as I'm concerned and honestly nor should it be.

Padre_Pio · 21-11-2020 11:27pm

banie01 wrote: »

Sharing screen grabs from someone's onlyfans is very common.
The issue is that copyright infringement of people choosing to sell images of themselves is being conflated with revenge porn and child porn.

If the local yummy mummy selling tit-pics is seeking to portray herself as the victim of a sex crime.
Or of a violation on a par with revenge porn, child sexualisation or coercive control via threat of sharing intimate images?
Apologies if you think I'm a little uncouth, but she is **** outta luck.

Copyright infringement is not a sex crime and cannot even be equated as being in the same realm of criminality.
The loss in that instance is solely monetary and more suited to civil than criminal courts.

I completely agree with this.

People with OnlyFans accounts are, by and large, sex workers. They are commercialising their bodies for the paying public.
Fair enough, some of it might be soft-core or lingerie, but let be honest.

If you're putting out content for the paying public, it cannot be a sex crime, or a violation of your body for the non-paying public to see this.

kippy wrote: »

Serious question here but are underage girls selling pictures of themselves on OnlyFans? This is a disgrace if so.

Probably. No one is policing underage access to porn, so I'd say no one is policing underage creation of porn.

AndrewJRenko · 22-11-2020 2:05am

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Every subscription porn site would have that , 3 months later porn ends up on free sites and only fans will be the same, it’s just Karen from the gaa club down the road is on only fans and expects to be treated differently

That doesn't make it legal.

AndrewJRenko · 22-11-2020 2:11am

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They should bring out a law that makes it illegal for people under 18 to share such images over smartphones and internet.It might make them think twice, because at the end of the day, all those images will end up somewhere dark online without them ever knowing.

Great idea. We could put it beside the laws that make it illegal for young people to smoke, drink, take drugs and have sex, because they've always worked swimmingly.

[Deleted User] · 22-11-2020 12:31pm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Kids don't get a pass when it comes to breaking the law, if a kid murders someone we don't just say, '' ah it's okay, they're only 14''

the age of responsibility in Ireland is 12. There is suggestions that it should be raised but I dont think it gained traction.Theres only a few exemptions and one is murder however at 14 you face the legal consequences of your actions.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

But they seem to get a pass when they produce self made CP, and distribute it among their inner circle.

You are suggesting that a law that is there to protect children should be used against children. Common sense must apply in such cases and there is the 'Romeo & Juliet' aspect at play. 12 year old coerced by a 17 year old is not the same as a 16 year old sending an image to her 15 year old boyfriend.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

They should bring out a law that makes it illegal for people under 18 to share such images over smartphones and internet.

What do you mean? Creating / sharing sexual images of a child (anyone under 18) is already a crime. Producing / displaying pornography to a child is also already a crime. The issue however is A, will there be a complaint / witness willing to give evidence and B, If you prosecute the reciever of an image should you also prosecute the supplier which may be in effect, the victim? Again, common sense needs to come into play.

The Gardai have certain amount of discretion with minor issues. In larger cases such as sexual offences, a file must be sent to the DPP and they in turn have a certain amount of discretion in how to proceed. The DPP is the director of PUBLIC prosecutions only and not private ones therefore their decisions are based on the general needs of the public at large and if its in the interests of justice and the public to prosecute. In a case where the victim and suspect are, say both 16 and in a relationship, neither wants to make a complaint and then the parents are of the opinion that there should be no prosecution, why continue? Who does it help?

Wibbs · 22-11-2020 1:10pm

Padre_Pio wrote: »

True, but that's the same as saying that no one forces you to go to work every day.

You go to work to benefit yourself, personally, professionally, financially.
You use the internet and social media to benefit yourself in many ways. You should have an expectation of privacy.

Just because you don't have to do something, doesn't mean you shouldn't do something.

Expectation/reality. Pick one. While it would be great if the internet was fully traceable and accountable to the law and privacy was guaranteed, it's not. Not even close. In many ways the internet sees censorship and restriction of information as a fault and routes around it. It's built into its very core.

Take your going to work example. We have a suite of solid worker's rights in Ireland, but workers in I dunno Pakistan do not. Our laws don't apply to them, just like any internet laws enacted here will mean diddly to servers in say Russia.

Plus an individual can choose to use the internet for their benefit, while retaining a lot more privacy than the average user who just clicks the I Agree terms and conditions box and ploughs on, most of the time not realising just how much of their personal data is being mined for multi billion quid corporations, or intercepted by the more nasty and criminally minded. People, particularly children need to be much better educated on this.

EG I use google, have an account with them including gmail, regularly gorge myself on youtube and this is my history:

And there's no need to go full prepper paranoid American in basement wearing tinfoil hat involved. Just a few clicks that takes but a minute. I don't facebook, but for the brief time I did I had taken the same minute or two to set my privacy preferences to feck off Zuckerberg.

Padre_Pio · 22-11-2020 1:34pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Expectation/reality. Pick one

They are all good points.
The internet is constantly evolving and despite it being 30 years old, the current incarnation of social media and 24/7 access is still new.
I don't know what legislation will be enacted to control it, but it seems to me to be a Pandora's Box.

I wouldn't be surprised if the EU or US starts to impose access restrictions or online passports.

To your second point, your browser or website history never disappears. Even in incognito and no matter what privacy settings. It's still recorded, just not used for certain purposes . Unless it is, in which case good luck, you still have no rights.

Sonics2k · 22-11-2020 1:40pm

kippy wrote: »

Serious question here but are underage girls selling pictures of themselves on OnlyFans? This is a disgrace if so.

I used to work for a payment processor who handled the account for OnlyFans. Much like any other business, people who use the service to sell are required to provide ID, including photo ID. So OnlyFans, Pornhub etc are all required by law to request Proof of ID and other such tax information from their users who are going to make money.

I would personally assume that the extreme majority of men and women posting on their have provided photo ID, but there is always the outlier chance that underage people have provided fake ID's. However, the security and fraud checks that go into trying to prevent this are very high so I'd reckon they would be rare, and typically picked up on quick enough.

No platform wants to be called out for allowing child pornography on their site.

robinbird · 22-11-2020 10:30pm

Sunday Times today claiming that selling porn on onlyfans is a "lifeline" for irish women and that anyone that jeopardises their income should be met with the full force of the law.

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