Dublin-Cork to take just two hours on 200kmh train

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-03-2006 4:42pm

corktina wrote:

i dont think electrification will happen...they are talking about de-electrifying the east coast main line in the UK as the number of electirc trains using it are declining.....the fixed costs are too great for a low density service such as we would have.....

I believe Mr.Garnett was using that line as a leverage to get the SRA to upgrade the OHLE between Newcastle and Edinburgh (especially the exposed coastal stretches) which was done on the cheap in the late '80s.

There is absolutely no way that the ECML will be de-electrified.

corktina · 25-03-2006 5:55pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I believe Mr.Garnett was using that line as a leverage to get the SRA to upgrade the OHLE between Newcastle and Edinburgh (especially the exposed coastal stretches) which was done on the cheap in the late '80s.

There is absolutely no way that the ECML will be de-electrified.

so, they are upgrading then?

probe · 27-03-2006 9:16pm

The anti-electrification of Irish rail lobby is surely missing the point?

The electrified “bus” known as Luas sucks in about 20 million passengers per annum, many of whom would otherwise (in the absence of Luas) bring their car out with them. Every day. Because electricity provides a quieter, smoother ride with faster acceleration after each stop, shortening journey times.

If public transport is to thrive it has to provide a superior solution for a large number of people (compared with the private car). Private cars have become more luxurious and quieter due to competition in the industry and as people get richer they can afford more “upscale” models.

Irish Rail (and the rest of the CIE group) and the Dept of Transport are still stuck in the 1960s mode of thinking and continue to provide Dept of Social Welfare style “safety net” public transport services which are mainly used by those who can’t afford their own car or who commute on a route where use of the car has become impossible due to traffic congestion or parking problems.

The electrification of transportation platforms will in general at least double the number of people using public transport on the route in question. Taking cars off the road and future proofing the infrastructure of the country. Instead of throwing the money away in Kyoto carbon taxes and leaving the place to rot in an ever increasing traffic jam.

probe

MarkoP11 · 27-03-2006 11:30pm

Were does it say I'm making an official opinion on behalf of an organisation? Hell I could representing OPEC. Can't have a formal opinion on a non existent project.

Electrification is expensive capital project and only makes sense where traffic demands are such which is mainly suburban or between large population centers and Cork ain't that. I've stood up and will again at public meetings demanding the DART be brought to Drogheda and Kildare there is a big difference between the real world and the dream world where time and money have no meaning. The Irish government have a report telling them to go back to diesel the DART line I'm 100% serious thats nuts but thats the reality

The fastest point to point timing on a internal service in the UK is held by a diesel powered train which is operating on electrified track. Its pretty clear that performance isn't really an issue.

The ride of the train is the same it doesn't matter on the power source, the diesel power car at each end leaves nothing under the floor and thats what all the serious players in the business are looking at doing again as the underfloor solution wasn't passenger or cost friendly

Given current and proposed frequencies Dublin Cork barely even justifies 2 tracks between Limerick Junction and Mallow. IE claim a 30 to 50% market share Dublin Cork with a service every 2 hours so running hourly they could corner the bulk of the market so where to next? The 200 kph running as proposed by IE is not funded they haven't even done the study to find out it is is possible. Its 10+ years away and those of us who pour over the detailed drawings IE put out in public at inquiries will already know that 200 kph is impossible on infrastructure that is being built over the next 5 years on the Cork line as the clearances are not there, this has already been put on the record by myself at a public inquiry long before all this talk began.

As I have pointed out Dublin Belfast is the only line with any real chance of electrification owing to the significant suburban traffic north and south as I understand it an agreement of sorts in place that if Belfast goes electric the gap will be closed, a plan to do this post Good Friday agreement stalled as it couldn't be justified, note Belfast is three times the size of Cork. The main benefits in this are for commuters. Electrification in high density suburban is the only way to go and thats where the performance and efficiency benefits come from the intercity case is very weak unless you can tag it on top of suburban services

The rail network in this country is still a mess and any fanciful thoughts need to be buried until such time as a decent modern network is in place and that will take many years and many billions of euro to fix it and diverting the cash to string up wires from Dublin to Cork on the back of a service frequency of 1 train per hour can't be justified in light of the very poor services that continue elsewhere. Incidentally only 2 of the 4 tracks into Dublin will be electrified and following a redesign Heuston station won't need to be electrified for the interconnector tunnel, so its 166 miles of double track. And by the way the Irish electrification system is rubbish for high speed high horsepower trains its perfect for medium speed commuter

Live in the real world the whole thing hangs on someone coming up with a cheap source of electricity given current fossil fuel generation is typically 40% efficient diesel and electric are fairly level on energy consumed until the day comes where plentiful cheap and reliable electric miracle (and thats looks like a any 2 but not all 3 are possible problem) source arrives the sensible game is to sit and wait. I'm not making this up the UK are doing the same line and they are well aware of the fuel problem and the design of there new HST will be optimised between performance and fuel efficiency it is possible it will offer a dual powered solution

I'd love the whole core network to be electrified but its just won't happen the costs won't deliver sufficent benefit, If there was a few million going spare it would be much better spent on suburban rail in somewhere like Limerick. Dublin Cork would be of the order of several hundred million basically you could fix the rest of the entire network with that kind of funding

corktina · 28-03-2006 7:15am

yeah..thats what I said....:)

Metrobest · 29-03-2006 12:08pm

Elecrification would be a forward-thinking project based on the kind of train travel passengers deserve in one of the world's most successful economies. Diesel-powered trains are associated with 2nd/3rd world countries, or in the case of developed countries, rural branch lines with no passenger demand. Ireland should not have to tolerate diesel trains between Cork and Dublin: such a line would indeed be electrified in continental Europe or a Scandanavian country.

The reason most people use the trains currently is the sub-standard roads linking Cork and Dublin. Flights are often impractical due to the congestion problems leading into Dublin and the airport's northside location.

There is pent-up frustration with the high fares and poor customer service which means that when passengers are given a fair choice, a decent alternative, they will ditch the train.

Fast forward six years and the metro from the airport to Stephen's Green will be up and running. Anyone doing a day's business in Dublin will make the switch to Ryanair or Aer Arann as they will reach Dublin's CBD in 17 minutes from the airport - that's faster than a taxi from Heuston!

When the full-length motorway arrives, anyone who needs to access the M50 or outer business area will take their car.

Bus journeys will become more attractive, too, when the motorway is built.

There is proven passenger demand on the Cork-Dublin and lines and with the ever-increasing commuter belt it's inevitable that there will be a market for more commuter services from places like Portlaoise and Tullamore.

Electrification is needed for so many reasons it's more cost-effective to do it sooner rather than later.

MarkoP11 wrote:

those of us who pour over the detailed drawings IE put out in public

...how mean of you to pour stuff over IE's sketches!

probe · 29-03-2006 3:40pm

MarkoP11 wrote:

Were does it say I'm making an official opinion on behalf of an organisation? Hell I could representing OPEC.

If you represented OPEC you would probably be a bit more farsighted! Many OPEC members such as Dubai are building their economies now for the day when oil “runs out”. If anybody has their finger on the pulse of declining oil production, these people do.

Unfortunately the mirror image of such reality has not yet dawned on many consuming nations. Ireland seems to be one of the furthest away from comprehending the picture with the highest car usage/dependence level on the planet. In no small part due to appalling design of public transport and the appalling design of where people live and work.

You yourself don’t come across to me as having the Middle Eastern accent of an OPEC guy. In fact you sound more like a choirboy singing from the Dept of Transport hymn sheet!

The fact that Ireland is investing in an unintegrated, dysfunctional, diesel rail infrastructure for the 21st century that largely depends on the same scarce and increasingly expensive hydrocarbons seems to escape most people – not least the politicians and the permanent government who are paid to plan for the future, instead of living in the past.

The performance of rail services in Britain (a country that has one of the most neglected, third world style, accident prone, bled to death rail networks in Europe) is hardly relevant to this discussion and one generally wonders if people who look to public transport in that country actually use public transport anywhere else?

You are living in the dark ages. The so called “celtic tiger” gave Ireland the financial wherewithal to move into the 21st century, infrastructurally speaking. An era where the personal automobile is used for perhaps 8,000 to 10,000 km per annum at most, and public transport does the rest of the work. You can’t expect the average person to leave their car at home every day (be it a Toyota or BMW or Merc etc) to board noisy, smelly, overcrowded, slow, unreliable diesel powered vehicles.

The Dublin-Cork railway line serves about 60% of the population of the country in its potential catchment area. I would have thought the main reason why it only attracts about 4 million passengers pa is that the journey is such an endurance test (typically six or more hours involved in a round trip which seldom runs to the rather dozy schedule it is supposed to operate from).

A reliable, efficient, sub-two hour end to end service would make the journey more acceptable and more people would travel on it more often. In addition to electrification the infrastructure requires re-instatement of the permanent way which on the Irish Rail network frequently feels as if the train is about to derail any minute when it gets up “speed”! While not quite as bad as the “potholed” network rail infrastructure in England, it is quickly catching up with their low standards.

A standard European electric train set can run on a range of electrical power from 1,500 volts DC to 25,000 volts AC. I don’t believe that ESB networks will have a problem providing this relatively modest requirement from the supplies to towns along the rail route. If any weaknesses exist in the national grid, they could take a leaf out of the French copybook where high tension general grid cables and new motorways are built next to railway tracks – which is surely good infrastructural planning.

probe

MarkoP11 · 30-03-2006 1:01am

The DoT hymn sheet is no electrification beyond the county border of Dublin, they have a report saying to go to diesel on the DART line not joking, the only reason electrification is happening is because you can't run diesel power kit in tunnels with stations

The DoT have never considered electrification on the Cork line and it was not in the terms of reference for the strategic rail review nor can I find it mentioned.

Dublin Cork electrified is a dream for god sake the DTO don't even want Drogheda on the DART system despite the fact 12 coach double decker trains could be required at 6 per hour to shift the demand in the medium term. Thats the mentality of those in power

There is no money

What little cash there is should be spent on bringing the rest of the network to standard first. No shortage of 100 mph capable trains but beyond the Cork line there isn't any track suitable for more than 80 mph, could easily chop 10-20 minutes off all intercity times for a quite modest outlay which would bring significant improvements to a wide range of destinations which are currently poorly served.

Dublin Galway best time is the same as the best time Dublin Cork, its 36 miles less to Galway
Dublin Sligo is 30 miles less than Dublin Cork but it takes 40 minutes longer
Dublin Westport is 1 mile less than Dublin Cork but it takes one full hour longer

See a pattern? It is clear than there is an awful lot of work to do elsewhere first to bring things up to standard. Getting all excited about Cork is wasted while the bulk of routes are still in the dark ages

The major reason why electrification won't happen is cost but also because you would still need diesel to reach Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Westport, Ballina and Waterford. I'm looking forward to seeing what 30 years of engineering advancement will do to the twin power car high speed diesel that is the only reaonable cost effective way forward the UK with all there miles of overhead wire are looking for at least 60 train sets at the moment. The smart money is on a dual power machine which can run on overhead where available, the French have such in service on regional trains already

Get the network sorted out
Electify Dublin Belfast
Then you can look at Cork is and only if suburban services in Cork also go electric

End of the day value for money and maximum benefit for all is the way and in the passengers interests

gjim · 30-03-2006 1:05am

There are few things more irritating than hearing people championing spending vast amounts of public money on projects without any attempt at a justification in terms of the benefits to the public versus the cost.

To be conservative, electrifying Cork to Dublin would cost probably around the two billion mark given that Bray to Howth cost 180 million pounds in the 80s. A sum like this would pay for about 75km of new Luas lines around Dublin (or in other cities) or the inter-connector AND the Navan rail link AND four tracking north of Connelly. Either of these things would facilitate at least 10 or 20 times as many passengers than electrifying Cork to Dublin.

And what exactly would be the benefit? I've travelled on both diesel and electric locomotive "inter-city" trains around Europe and I noticed no difference in passenger comfort. I've no problem admitting that DMUs can be a different story. Someone else has pointed out that electric has no speed advantage. I doubt that all the trains in the country together are responsible for even 1% of Ireland consumption of fossil fuels so converting Cork-Dublin to electric at massive expense will do effectively nothing for the country in this regard.

We are left with the fact that its "forward looking" which means we are back in WRC land in terms of presenting a reasonable argument. This is anorakism at it's worst.

MarkoP11 · 30-03-2006 1:23am

The entire cost of the DART was £114 million at 1984 prices, its £87 million in fact the rest was interest on the loan taken out to pay for it

Fair play gjim we need sense here, we can get a lot of the benefits for a fraction of the money. There is already a plan which has a good cost benefit ratio which will bring times down to 2:15 with stops and T21 seems to cover it

evilhomer · 30-03-2006 9:09am

I do agree that the electrification of the Dublin-Cork line is not a priority by any means, there are other much more urgent issues to be addressed (i.e. the DARTification/quad tracking of the rail service to places like Kildare/Navan, more rolling stock, the interconnector (in my opinion should be the highest priority) also a couple of huge park and rides (with free parking, not like the LUAS).

But at some stage in the next 10 years the simple fact is that oil will start to run out and carbon credits will effectivly kill oil and bio-oil as an energy source. If we are going to be building track or upgrading lines we should be future proofing them.

Red Alert · 30-03-2006 9:37am

Electrifying the dublin-cork line would be a serious waste of money. Almost all electrified lines are left on at all times (like the dublin trams), for reasons of safety and reliability. The rectifiers and transformers have losses, sometimes significant.

Electric trains have no better acceleration than Diesel-Electrics. There's a limit to the size of the motors that can be fitted to the bogies. The DMU's on the other hand (why IE won't purchase DEMU's is another matter) have an automatic (epicyclic) gearbox like a double-decker bus or even worse have a horrid Hydraulic transmission like the 29000's. With a small engine like on a DMU you need big reduction ratios to start off with which is what gives rise to their poor acceleration.

I agree the 201's are past it - why can't the 071's be used instead? They're actually reliable because they haven't been butchered by the incompetent management of IE who think that running head-end power for the enterprise is ok. If I went outside to the bus terminus and stuck a brick on the accelerator of a bus for a day would you say it would be ok? I certainly don't think we should waste yet more money on the CAF power cars as we've now got locomotive-overload in this country.

Actually does anyone know if the CAF train to cork has a generator van like the Mark 3's or are they pulling the power from the loco like the enterprise (and destroying it in the process)?

murphaph · 30-03-2006 10:15am

Red Alert wrote:

Actually does anyone know if the CAF train to cork has a generator van like the Mark 3's or are they pulling the power from the loco like the enterprise (and destroying it in the process)?

No it has a generator in the driving trailer.

SeanW · 30-03-2006 1:41pm

I agree that electrification of the lines to Cork and Limerick will be desirable - eventually. In terms of environmentalism, Biodiesel is a much better answer for Irish Rail. Carbon credits shouldn't kill that, and if they do the whole scheme needs a rework.

And as for diesel being "unreliable and 3rd world" huh? For low spec multiple units this is absolutely 100% true, like the 29000 versus the DART. For locomotive hauled trains, and high spec DMUs (hopefully), Metrobest et. al. couldn't be further off the mark.

Take Sligo. Up until last year, we had Mark 2d carraiges, which were old but reasonably nice. They certainly beat the bejesus out of a 29K.

But it wouldn't have mattered to passengers comfort or reliability one bit if the loco at the head was running electric or diesel (071 class). If we'd had the 201 that might have been better as these locos are rather quiet.

I can understand (sort of) Metrobest's liking of electricity. But we've got to be realistic.

MarkoP11 · 30-03-2006 3:13pm

Electrification is a long term goal, all the engineering is facilitating it by improving the vertical clearances now during routine replacement saving disruption and cost later. This is turn reduces the cost and thence makes it more possible but still extremely expensive and unlikely.

As I have pointed out before and as SeanW has said nothing says you can't use bio diesel, its subject to getting the manufacturers to agree on warranty terms, that kills the cost and supply problem. All new diesel units will have to comply with EU emissions law anyway

Diesel power at mid range speed will level with electric trains up to 200 kph, you are looking at two 2700 hp self contained power cars, one at each end and you can fit that into the weight limit. If gas turbine technology is available you could be looking at up to 5000 hp per power car with significant maintenance savings. Electrification will only make a difference if you want to stop everywhere as it will save running costs, once you are up and running at 200 kph it all the same.

All I can say is the Acela Express gas turbine-electric locomotive and it can do 150 mph, its got 5000 hp its not a dream its a real machine

John R · 30-03-2006 4:55pm

The environmental angle is a red-herring also. Diesel power units can be converted to using 100% bio fuel alot quicker than our national grid can be weaned off oil, it really is only a matter of timing. When bio fuels are a better financial option than oil based fuels there will be a very rapid switchover.

There are already some trains in Sweeden running on 100% bio fuel, they were existing diesel units converted.

If Our government had any foresight they could use the recent collapses in beet farming as an opportunity to kick-start bio fuel production here. In that case the railways and bus fleets in the country would be a perfect fit as it would be a guaranteed customer for the fuel. Grants to cover the cost of conversion would easily be worth it with the impending Kyoto fines and the added benefit of cutting outgoing expenditure on oil.

Lennoxschips · 30-03-2006 5:43pm

if you build it, they will come

SeanW · 30-03-2006 6:03pm

Yes, they could have kept the sugar industry going and reduced slightly dependency on fossil fuels by for example a mandate that petroleum sold contain X% (up to 10 is doable) ethanol. Same story for biodiesel mix into petro-diesel, though there is no key point in the timeline there as there was in the case of Mallow/sugar.

probe · 30-03-2006 9:07pm

gjim wrote:

To be conservative, electrifying Cork to Dublin would cost probably around the two billion mark

How do you arrive at the rather nutty €2 billion figure for electrifying the Dublin – Cork line?

RENFE recently electrified the exiting Madrid – Lleida track (distance 430 km) for just over €300,000 per km, which would equate to about €77 million for Dublin Cork distance. OK let’s triple this number given that we are talking about rip-off Ireland and you still come in at under €250 million. i.e. about 25% of the compensation claim costs that will have to be met for not first passing a law first to enable the legal deduction of state retirement home cost contributions from the pensions of the occupants. Most of this compensation will be probably be blown by the pensioners’ survivors on foreign holidays or property price inflation fuelling! An electrified railway line remains in service for generations and can serve inter-city and suburban traffic alike.

The newly electrified Spanish line can take both Talgo 200 and Talgo 350 trains – the latter operates at up to 350 km/h (i.e. TGV speed) with an 8,000 kW power demand.

probe

gjim · 30-03-2006 11:08pm

How do you arrive at the rather nutty €2 billion figure for electrifying the Dublin – Cork line?

I pulled it out of my ass. The same source you've used for arguments that electrying Dublin-Cork should be a national imperative. In particular the idea that converting 20 train journeys a day between Dublin and Cork from diesel to electric will do anything to lessen the country's dependence on fossil fuels. If you honestly believe Dublin to Cork could be electrified for €200m, you're even more naive than I thought. Two billion might be over the top but €200m is an even more ludicrous estimate. From Marko's figures the DART cost over £2m per km in 1984. That's over €7m per km in todays terms - bringing us close to the €1.5 billion mark to do Cork-Dublin. I don't care if they managed to build a nuclear power station for 50p in India or a airport terminal for a tenner in Chile or a city wide metro system in Spain for €300m. Such figures have little or no relevence to the cost of things in Ireland.

craigybagel · 30-03-2006 11:50pm

As has been already stated on this forum, the money used for electrification, and the new electric trains theyd need that noone else seems to have mentioned yet, could pay for extra lines,trains etc. nationwide and help more people than just those who are worried about there tea shaking on the train! And if we stick with diesel we dont even need to buy new engines. EWS in Britain has 30 severely under-utilised 125 class 67 locos, very similar to our own 201s only more powerful.Ok theyd need regauging, but bring 10 of them over, couple them to the new CAF Mk4s and youve got youre 125mph trains! All we need now is the track relayed and youve got youre high speed railway at a fraction of the cost of the plans of the proelectrification brigade. And it wouldnt even take the 10 years that some people are quoting.

MarkoP11 · 31-03-2006 12:19am

Starting to see some sense here.

The class 67 is capable of 125mph but is rather lacking in power, its only slightly more powerfull that a 201 class which is well known for sluggish behaviour, it weighs 89 tons on 4 axles which is 22.5 tons per axle, the accepted figure you need is about 17 tons for high speed running or less the track gets munched, the current Irish limit is 20 tons

Over a billion euro is require long term just to renew the track

UK are about to order a 125mph diesel power car might as well get them

craigybagel · 31-03-2006 12:41am

Fair play marko you obviously know your stuff! But are we at least agreed electrification is a waste? I hate the way IE seems to waste money on so many things when so much of the network is crying out for investment.

MarkoP11 · 31-03-2006 1:17am

craigybagel wrote:

But are we at least agreed electrification is a waste? I hate the way IE seems to waste money on so many things when so much of the network is crying out for investment.

Irish Rail to be fair are not proposing electrification, some posters here have a mad dream that in some way electrification is essential in some way, it not given current traffic levels there is no justification even a four fold increase still wouldn't be a great case

What Irish Rail are proposing a modest upgrade piggybacked on routine track renewal with a few corners smoothed out between Dublin and Limerick Junction, I'm disappointed that its only to Limerick Junction I'd like to see go futher to Mallow but still its a start and a sensible one

If thats all that is required to produce a 2 hour time its a great result for the passengers noting the track upgrade would have postive impacts on all service on the Cork line, Galway, Limerick etc. For a modest outlay on the Cork Limerick Junction section would bring that down further

There is a very limited supply of money and it must be shared out and its horribly slow on most other lines they have priority

craigybagel · 31-03-2006 1:42am

Point noted on the electrification but i disagree on the upgrade beyond Lim Jct. The line south of there is a lot more bendy, so it would cost more, and theres less traffic as well as Dublin-Limerick passengers wouldnt travel over it. Itd be a lot of money for an at best 15 minute improvement when as you say yourself 2 hours is a great result. And think of where the money for it could be used instead.

MarkoP11 · 31-03-2006 1:52am

Yes it is more bendy and the benefits are limited all the same IE already run at 100 mph beyond LImerick Junction, its modest, sensible piece by piece nothing crazy just get the track up to decent standard most of this can be had at very little cost during planned renewal anyway, unbroken 100 mph to Mallow would be quite an improvement. Mallow Cork is a whole different game

You are exactly right need to target where the benefit is there seems to be a lot of sense in the proposal, remember its just an idea now

craigybagel · 31-03-2006 2:07am

Just wondering is the Cork line actually due for a large scale renewal? surely it cant be that long since the 100mph upgrade.

MarkoP11 · 31-03-2006 10:04am

Up until 2 weeks ago things where looking really bad as the train times are not getting better but the motorway is getting much better. This all came as a bit of a a surprise and a welcome one

€1.5 billion is required in the 20 years 2002 to 2022 just to renew and maintain the track Dublin Cork/Limerick/Tralee but that includes the rebuild of Cork, Limerick Junc, Limerick and Portarlington. The relay Dublin Cork started in 1976 and the track really only has a 25 year lifespan and as many will know its not in the best condition currently

Just getting the track back to proper condition as far as Thurles would chop about 7 minutes off the Dublin Thurles time bringing it to 65 minutes an 80 mph average thats quite significant

probe · 31-03-2006 6:24pm

gjim wrote:

I pulled it out of my ass. The same source you've used for arguments that electrying Dublin-Cork should be a national imperative. In particular the idea that converting 20 train journeys a day between Dublin and Cork from diesel to electric will do anything to lessen the country's dependence on fossil fuels. If you honestly believe Dublin to Cork could be electrified for €200m, you're even more naive than I thought. Two billion might be over the top but €200m is an even more ludicrous estimate. From Marko's figures the DART cost over £2m per km in 1984. That's over €7m per km in todays terms - bringing us close to the €1.5 billion mark to do Cork-Dublin. I don't care if they managed to build a nuclear power station for 50p in India or a airport terminal for a tenner in Chile or a city wide metro system in Spain for €300m. Such figures have little or no relevence to the cost of things in Ireland.

€200 million works out at about €800 per metre for laying an overhead cable system – i.e. €40,000 for providing and installing two support poles and the 50m of cable between them and their share of centralised transformer and control kit. Seems reasonable to me. If you were getting the same hardware installed in your own garden and someone quoted a €40,000 cost I suspect you would tell them where to go and go out and buy the support poles and cable and do the job yourself, and probably save €35,000 in the process!

probe

probe · 31-03-2006 6:26pm

craigybagel wrote:

Just wondering is the Cork line actually due for a large scale renewal? surely it cant be that long since the 100mph upgrade.

It is not long since they last fiddled with the line. It would appear to have been yet another incompetently done, Irish state managed, infrastructural job. Anyway the line remains unsafe and uncomfortable at anything over 100 km/h irrespective of what they spent on it the last time. I never cease to be amazed by the poor quality and slow work rate of people in the construction and engineering sectors in Ireland – compared with their Continental counterparts.

I notice that you just signed up for boards.ie yesterday. I’m toying with where to categorise you in my system!

1) As an Irish Rail / CIE / DoT ‘bot’ programmed to join the other bots who share the same provenance whose objective is to spam anyone who posts material on national rail electrification or anything else that displeases or shows up their employers?

2) Similar to 1) but you have another identity which you actively use in this thread and set this new identity up to post stuff in agreement with yourself?

probe

Dublin-Cork to take just two hours on 200kmh train

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