Sustainability of moving home from abroad in 40's with family to become a teacher?

movinghome.. · 23-04-2020 4:17pm #1

Hello all.

Just putting out feeders here to get some feedback/advice etc.

Basically, I am an Irish expat who has been living and teaching English abroad for about 15 years. I am in my early 40's (going on 21 though at heart) and I have an Asian wife and 2 little boys- 3 years old and 3 months old.

The call of home is very strong- mainly to give our boys a more free, fun, outdoorsy type of lifestyle growing up (in the countryside hopefully) with not as much focus on education as there would be where we are.

I have been and am teaching at a university here for 5 years now and do quite a few side teaching jobs to prop up the pay.
We are living comfortably here even with 1 income. Life here can be soulless for kids though especially and we would really like to have our boys go through the Irish education system.

My degree is a B.Sc in Health and Leisure.
PE teaching may be a possibility although its a long shot I think- may need to study for 4 years or whatever.
How about becoming qualified as a primary school teacher? If we were to move home and I did a course (Hibernia, or other Masters Course) would it be possible to get a steady job soon enough after? But then even so- would the salary be enough to live fairly decently with for us all? The pension side seems attractive I would say too. I would need to teach until 65 I believe at this stage.

We would be returning with a bit over 100k to set us on the way. I know this may not last very long unless we hit the ground running though and have some proper plans in place.

Does it sound feasible to take this route? My wife would not be able to do any kind of work for a year or 2 at least (and even were she to take up work after that it would be part-time probably).

Are we setting ourselves up for a massive failure here by doing this? How does it look objectively? Do any other options jump out?

The idea would be to start off staying with or close to my family-home possibly close to rent free for a few months and take things from there with getting stuff set up.

This really is a massive move and there are so many factors at play. Would love to hear some feedback though. The Coronavirus may play a part as well. We are provisionally pencilling in around April 2022 for a return. Our eldest will be ready for primary school that year and we are finishing the lease on our current home then too.

Thanks for reading.

williaint · 23-04-2020 4:58pm

Can I ask are you considering teaching because it's what you've always wanted to do or because you don't know if you'll find something which pays as well in any other sector? I ask because I also returned from abroad with a lot of teaching experience...

Primary = Will be a 2 Year PME and you'll need to have a good level in Irish / fulfil the Irish requirement (perhaps you do already?)

Secondary = I don't believe your undergrad qualifies you for PE but open to correction. Either way the only way you'll know for definite is to get it assessed by the TC. If it does not, you're looking at another 3/4 year undergrad plus a 2 year PME OR starting one of the few concurrent degrees out there. Personally, I wouldn't touch secondary unless you could offer very in demand subjects (i.e. Home Ec, Languages or Gaeilge). Even if you could teach PE, it wouldn't be a very in demand subject on its own.

With your experience of teaching EFL at university, maybe it would be better to look at posts at third level? Do you have a Masters in EFL? Or a DELTA? I know from experience that pay and conditions in English Language schools are generally not good but a post at a university could be better. I know these posts are more plentiful in the UK than Ireland.

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do!

spurious · 23-04-2020 6:19pm

If you were a friend or a relative of mine, I would do my best to dissuade you from this plan.
Have a read of the numerous threads from people trying to get jobs.

antgal23 · 23-04-2020 7:53pm

I did the same move 5 years ago and it worked out well

I'm a qualified secondary teacher who taught aboard.

Main concerns for me are to get qualified ASAP in two subjects (Secondary) in as short space of time as possible.

Primary is an option given your Irish is good.

You could contact the Teaching Council and give them the details of your Undergrad. They'll determine which subject you can teach for Secondary
For secondary, I know there is a PGCE you can do abroad whilst you teach .

The Teaching Council will recognise the PGCEand give you your number

Re:jobs I fell into special needs and work with autistic lads. I would feel it's difficult to get a job with PE only

movinghome.. · 24-04-2020 2:33am

williaint wrote: »

Can I ask are you considering teaching because it's what you've always wanted to do or because you don't know if you'll find something which pays as well in any other sector?

Thanks a lot for the detail and laying stuff out clearly.

Irish would not be an issue as I from a Gaeltacht area.

Teaching is definitely up there in the group of things I would like to continue doing.

From your post and I think it is accurate- Primary teaching is a more suitable option than secondary.

Teaching EFL at university does not sound as attractive to me to be honest especially considering the relative dearth of available positions. I do not have those or other specific qualifications to teach at uni either.

I am all for and willing to upskill whatever skills/training I need though.

Working with people- young kids, older adults, people with disabilities etc is where I would like to see myself and the kind of experience I have already. I think my teaching experience here as well as some roles I had before I left Ireland along with the course that I studied all lend their hand to moving for these kind of positions too. Social work would be a good option I think too.

Just hoping these kinds of roles pay enough relatively to sustain a family of four.
That has to be a key priority too.

movinghome.. · 24-04-2020 2:40am

spurious wrote: »

If you were a friend or a relative of mine, I would do my best to dissuade you from this plan.
Have a read of the numerous threads from people trying to get jobs.

Thank you for this. I am reading some posts and yes I see people saying they have been unable to secure permanent roles for several years after becoming qualified. It is concerning.
How do the demographics look? Are there likely to be more or less positions available for primary teachers in the years ahead.

Ideally, I would be choosing a career that would guarantee employment almost straight away.

Is it more less likely to gain employment in a rural setting than in a big city? I would prefer to settle in a rural area and specifically closish to where I grew up if possible.

Would there be any careers outside of teaching that you would recommend?

I like the idea of working with groups of people.

Thanks.

movinghome.. · 24-04-2020 2:47am

antgal23 wrote: »

I did the same move 5 years ago and it worked out well.

Re:jobs I fell into special needs and work with autistic lads. I would feel it's difficult to get a job with PE only

This is great to hear and thank you for the response.
I did some work with people with disabilites as part of my course in college and it is an avenue I would very seriously consider going down too when I return.
It may involve some type of further training but I am more than willing to do that.

Where would one start if looking for these kinds of positions or get further upskilling?

The PGCE is something I will look into too although I think it may not be for me.

Thanks again!

Cash_Q · 24-04-2020 4:59am

If you pursue a qualification as a primary teacher you could teach in any special school, having an interest in disability would be an advantage. Our school is crying out for subs and has 5 vacancies for September, some of which will probably be filled by existing temp cover but no guarantee of that either. We find it extremely difficult to get subs although we are a lovely school with great students. Special schools are often overlooked by teachers. Some of our teachers are secondary trained but all special schools come under the primary system as far as I am aware so that qualification would open the door to that area.

As for all the other logistics I truly dont know how expensive it would be to get set up and to support yourselves. It can be a long expensive road to get qualified as a teacher, look up PME fees and factor in ability to earn while studying and doing school placements. It can take years to get established in a job, you could be paid term time only for a long time and your 100k could be eaten up quickly.

I have a colleague who recently returned from 5 years teaching in Asia, her husband is a qualified primary teacher, she's an sna and they're living with his parents, their own two kids, her husband's siblings and their children. That's what they have to do to get back on their feet here while saving for their own house. If it's something you really want and there is family support and low cost accommodation available then I suppose its worth a try.

antgal23 · 24-04-2020 8:53am

I think really what you need to look at is to retrain.

I would research this as retraining will take years - I'd choose wisely.

Depends on the course, but you ll need 2-4 years.

I know two secondary trained teachers who had to train to be primary teachers to get a job, and one of them teaches special ed

Both primary and secondary qualified can teach in a special needs school as mentioned above.

You won't be able to get a mortgage, car insurance will be high and you'll need to get a PPS number so you'll need your savings to get by.

I think you need a job to get a PPS.

I think you can sub teach if you are doing your teaching degree.

Another thing worth considering is Home Tuition. Dunno if you need to have a Teaching Council number but worth checking out.

deiseindublin · 24-04-2020 8:59am

If you are from a gaeltacht area and fluent, you'd have a great chance of getting work teaching Irish at the unqualified rate in the interim.

You'd have more hope of work in an urban setting, but living costs for 4 would be horrendously offputting and wages when working would be the same.

Definitely, start at the teaching council to see exactly what your degree qualified you to teach, it could just be a case of adding extra credits to get your teaching Council number.

funkypumpkins · 24-04-2020 5:45pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

If you are from a gaeltacht area and fluent, you'd have a great chance of getting work teaching Irish at the unqualified rate in the interim.

You'd have more hope of work in an urban setting, but living costs for 4 would be horrendously offputting and wages when working would be the same.

Definitely, start at the teaching council to see exactly what your degree qualified you to teach, it could just be a case of adding extra credits to get your teaching Council number.

As you have a third level degree already, you can apply to register as a teacher under Route 3 (Further Education) which gives you three years to get a teaching degree, either Further Ed or Post Primary/Primary to fully register. https://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/Registration/Forms-and-Fees/Forms/

I am currently doing this while I deal with the bureaucracy of my teaching credentials. Once you register, you should get a teaching council number which is necessary to get paid from state funds as a sub teacher.

rainbowtrout · 24-04-2020 6:37pm

antgal23 wrote: »

You won't be able to get a mortgage, car insurance will be high and you'll need to get a PPS number so you'll need your savings to get by.

I think you need a job to get a PPS.

He's Irish, he'd already have a PPS. PPS numbers are issued to babies once the birth is registered. PPS is not just used for getting a job.

Treppen · 25-04-2020 10:46am

Apart from qualification issues there are financial issues.
Live urban or rural.
Urban has higher chance of work but rent with family while subbing can be expensive.

Pension for a new entrant is based on career average earnings now which is 'not what it used to be'. So basically assume you will have to have your mortgage paid off in 20 odd years time.

At the moment private sector is in free fall. Usually when that happens every Tom, Dick and Harry will want to go into teaching. So there may be a shortage now, but 2 years may be an oversupply. Can you financially weather the 'subbing phase' until permanency.

So assume you get permanency at 50 and your kids will be entering college , can you support them (could they support themselves). Maybe they have dual citizenship which allows them (free!) access to college in the country you are in .

highly1111 · 25-04-2020 12:38pm

I don't have much advice other than what has already been offered.
If you have a good level of Irish this will hold you to good stead. Also being open to working with kids with special needs is a huge advantage (it absolutely takes a certain skill set - not everyone can / is willing to do it)
I also recommend getting involved in the community as much as possible - GAA / Scouts - whatever it may be.
Primary seems the way to go and I wish you loads of luck!
Finally, I did a career change into teaching and I have never regretted it. I'm ten years in and it's the best move I ever made. (Albeit of course you have to be realistic about the challenges ahead also - however, €100,000 is a lot to be able to bring to the table at the start of your journey so well done for that too)

byhookorbycrook · 25-04-2020 7:38pm

Primary teacher here . Whilst there’s a shortage of subs, there’s also quite of shortage of any long term work or permanent posts . Because you have a family , you will be limited geographically too, I presume ?

In primary , special education teachers must be able to teach other classes too- so you can’t count on being left in special Ed. I’d think long and hard about spending quite a lot of money with Hibernian , being honest .

movinghome.. · 28-04-2020 3:33am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Primary teacher here . Whilst there’s a shortage of subs, there’s also quite of shortage of any long term work or permanent posts . Because you have a family , you will be limited geographically too, I presume ?

I’d think long and hard about spending quite a lot of money with Hibernian , being honest .

Absolutely, I am thinking long and hard about this and which road to take and I am open to suggestions on alternatives too.

The main messages from the replies here seems to be that becoming qualified and registered (not easy in themselves) are no guarantees of permanent jobs or a career in teaching which is kind of what is needed here to be honest with bringing a family over and becoming settled.

This is a big concern and really the more ideal situation would be to jump into work pretty much right away after I return (in any field really) but not sure that will be possible.

Securing part-time work while completing the process of becoming qualified to teach or any other kind of long term professional qualification would be necessary.
I am fine with taking a few steps back to get ahead again later but of course a guarantee of a decent profession/income is essential too.

movinghome.. · 28-04-2020 3:52am

highly1111 wrote: »

I don't have much advice other than what has already been offered.
Primary seems the way to go and I wish you loads of luck!
Finally, I did a career change into teaching and I have never regretted it. I'm ten years in and it's the best move I ever made.

Thanks a lot for the positivity in this post. GAA has been and prob will be a major part of my life.
Why else do you think I am bringing back 2 boys to Ireland

Irish- I can get to near fluent level too. I also do believe I have the aptitude and experience (been teaching a lot of young kids here too including 4 years at a primary public school here) to become a very good teacher if given the opportunity back home.

It is absolutely a case of taking a few big steps back to try and ensure a better future (eventually) especially for the kids. Looking at expected costs of setting up a life for the 1st years especially at the moment.
Weighing up the pros/cons and will try to figure something out soonish.

Thank you.

Treppen · 28-04-2020 9:02am

movinghome.. wrote: »

Thanks a lot for the positivity in this post. GAA has been and prob will be a major part of my life.
Why else do you think I am bringing back 2 boys to Ireland

Irish- I can get to near fluent level too. I also do believe I have the aptitude and experience (been teaching a lot of young kids here too including 4 years at a primary public school here) to become a very good teacher if given the opportunity back home.

It is absolutely a case of taking a few big steps back to try and ensure a better future (eventually) especially for the kids. Looking at expected costs of setting up a life for the 1st years especially at the moment.
Weighing up the pros/cons and will try to figure something out soonish.

Thank you.

"Getting registered with teaching council"
Hmm very iffy

"Getting full time job"
Give it a few years.

" Getting subwork"
Depends

"Have real world experience"
Meh...

" GAA "
Why didn't you say so, when can you start? :pac:

Seriously though, play that trump card as much as possible.

cgcsb · 28-04-2020 9:09am

On a teachers salary? you would have to have a car to live rural, take at least 3 grand a year for insurance plus the cost of buying, maintaining and taxing a car. On a teachers salary with a dependent spouse and kids, I don't see how you could manage.

afkasurfjunkie · 28-04-2020 9:49am

cgcsb wrote: »

On a teachers salary? you would have to have a car to live rural, take at least 3 grand a year for insurance plus the cost of buying, maintaining and taxing a car. On a teachers salary with a dependent spouse and kids, I don't see how you could manage.

He’s hardly going to be buying a Ferrari.

Living in the country, plenty of teaching experience and SEN experience, into GAA and with near fluent irish, you will be snapped up OP.

cgcsb · 28-04-2020 11:40am

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

He’s hardly going to be buying a Ferrari.

Living in the country, plenty of teaching experience and SEN experience, into GAA and with near fluent irish, you will be snapped up OP.

Cars aren't expensive in Ireland, insurance is expensive. If you don't have a 2 year no claims bonus in Ireland or the UK (because these are the only countries in the world where drivers are safe according to the insurance industry and our 'Insurance Regulator' [:pac::pac:] says that's fine). You're talking a couple of grand just for car insurance. The banking and insurance sector in Ireland is extremely corrupt by first world standards.

On that note OP, don't forget that in Ireland retail banks CHARGE YOU to be a customer and access your own money :pac::D

Don't see how being 'into GAA' = a stream of income, and if it does, that just goes to show how backwards things are. 'Oh he likes a sport, he must be qualified for this unrelated position' :rolleyes:.

Also OP, Energy costs in Ireland are some of Europe's highest, also worth considering. Get yourself an energy efficient home if at all possible.

Food and public transport are relatively cheap (well, not extortionate) here but just about every other service and product is usually at the top end of any international price comparison. Maybe move to a more family centric place closer to where you are?

rainbowtrout · 28-04-2020 12:21pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Cars aren't expensive in Ireland, insurance is expensive. If you don't have a 2 year no claims bonus in Ireland or the UK (because these are the only countries in the world where drivers are safe according to the insurance industry and our 'Insurance Regulator' [:pac::pac:] says that's fine). You're talking a couple of grand just for car insurance. The banking and insurance sector in Ireland is extremely corrupt by first world standards.

On that note OP, don't forget that in Ireland retail banks CHARGE YOU to be a customer and access your own money :pac::D

Don't see how being 'into GAA' = a stream of income, and if it does, that just goes to show how backwards things are. 'Oh he likes a sport, he must be qualified for this unrelated position' :rolleyes:.

Also OP, Energy costs in Ireland are some of Europe's highest, also worth considering. Get yourself an energy efficient home if at all possible.

Food and public transport are relatively cheap (well, not extortionate) here but just about every other service and product is usually at the top end of any international price comparison. Maybe move to a more family centric place closer to where you are?

You'd swear he was the first person to return to Ireland ever. Car insurance might be expensive for him the first year, but it should drop after that. The OP lives in the UK so he should be fine.

Ireland's banks aren't unique in charging fees for using current accounts etc. And it's not a fee that's going to make or break him.

Like it or not, and I'm not a fan of it, but have extra curricular activities opens doors in teaching, particularly GAA because every small town and village in the country has a GAA club. Every teacher going into an interview has the teaching qualification so it's often the extras that you can do will swing the job your way. He does have an advantage if he is a fluent Irish speaker and is willing to coach GAA. No two ways about it.

Not sure why you are going on about the energy efficient homes etc. The vast majority of homes in Ireland are 3-4 bed semi-d if you live in a town or 3-4 bed bungalow if you live in the country. Can't see why you are making it out like he wouldn't survive back in the area he grew up in.

People here generally have a good quality of life, not sure why you are basically making out like it is unaffordable. If he is a fluent Irish speaker he is more than likely from the west of Ireland where housing is more affordable. Plenty of houses available in the west suitable for families that are affordable on one decent salary or two average salaries. You're making sound like it's not worth coming home unless he's earning a six figure sum.

cgcsb · 28-04-2020 12:26pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The OP lives in the UK so he should be fine.

I am an Irish expat who has been living and teaching English abroad for about 15 years

I didn't know this. Assumed he lived further afield based on the above. Regarding everything else. Just painting a realistic picture. Quality of life, yes I suppose it's better than the UK. I had visions of him living somewhere like East Asia or the middle east, where wages vs costs would be more favourable.

Millem · 28-04-2020 12:37pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I am an Irish expat who has been living and teaching English abroad for about 15 years

I didn't know this. Assumed he lived further afield based on the above. Regarding everything else. Just painting a realistic picture. Quality of life, yes I suppose it's better than the UK. I had visions of him living somewhere like East Asia or the middle east, where wages vs costs would be more favourable.

I thought he was teaching English as a second language abroad too....not in the UK!!

rainbowtrout · 28-04-2020 1:18pm

Millem wrote: »

I thought he was teaching English as a second language abroad too....not in the UK!!

Sorry, I stand corrected. The rest of the post still stands. Expensive car insurance the first year, but it will fall. It won't be thousands forever.

movinghome.. · 28-04-2020 3:35pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I had visions of him living somewhere like East Asia or the middle east, where wages vs costs would be more favourable.

Yes, this is bang on.

I am in East Asia and my current pay after (low) taxes here (including quite a bit of part time work along with main job) would be about double what a teacher back home would be earning per month. We have quite a bit of disposable income here at the end of each month and I understand that this will change dramatically.

But it isn't all rosy here either and this is why the (almost certain) return to Ireland. Raising kids here would be far more expensive considering education costs as they get older. Plus our 2 boys could not have the kind of freedom and enjoyment an Irish childhood would give. Plus buying a (small) home here would be very expensive relatively too- about double or more the cost in Ireland considering size.

Teaching isn't a very well paid job but with a decent amount in the bank (hopefully 110/120k by then) and a simple enough rural lifestyle..
(Yes, there will be some big initial costs, car, car insurance, housing, education, utilities etc) I think it may be doable.

The plan would be to get a habitual residence sorted right away (will have family to help with a place to stay for a couple of months or more) and then we can apply for PPS numbers for my wife and kids. We can look into some kinds of welfare programs then and take things from there- education/work, car etc

What kinds of places (or career changes) would you have in mind to go instead? We are open to other possibilities too.
I understand 100% where you are coming from with expenses and the hidden costs of everything (including banking) are horrible- I agree.
It is one of the things I am dreading.

Millem · 28-04-2020 3:38pm

movinghome.. wrote: »

Yes, this is bang on.

I am in East Asia and my current pay after (low) taxes here (including quite a bit of part time work along with main job) would be about double what a teacher back home would be earning per month. We have quite a bit of disposable income here at the end of each month and I understand that this will change dramatically.

But it isn't all rosy here either and this is why the (almost certain) return to Ireland. Raising kids here would be far more expensive considering education costs as they get older. Plus our 2 boys could not have the kind of freedom and enjoyment an Irish childhood would give. Plus buying a (small) home here would be very expensive relatively too- about double or more the cost in Ireland considering size.

Teaching isn't a very well paid job but with a decent amount in the bank (hopefully 110/120k by then) and a simple enough rural lifestyle..
(Yes, there will be some big initial costs, car, car insurance, housing, education, utilities etc) I think it may be doable. I

The plan would be to get a habitual residence sorted right away (will have family to help with a place to stay for a couple of months or more) and then we can apply for PPS numbers for my wife and kids. We can look into some kinds of welfare programs then and take things from there- education/work, car etc

What kinds of places (or career changes) would you have in mind to go instead? We are open to other possibilities too.
I understand 100% where you are coming from with expenses and the hidden costs of everything (including banking) are horrible- I agree.
It is one of the things I am dreading.

Do you want to be a primary or secondary teacher? If so how much per year do you and your family need to live off while you qualify?

movinghome.. · 28-04-2020 3:54pm

Millem wrote: »

Do you want to be a primary or secondary teacher? If so how much per year do you and your family need to live off while you qualify?

I would be happy to be a primary teacher yes.

Regarding costs per year while trying to qualify - I need to sit down properly to work it out but I would guess around 20-25k per year + an initial settling down cost of 10-15k (shipping of some stuff from here, car, utilities).
I will look into part-time work for income right away if this is possible too while doing the training to be a teacher.

Housing will be the biggest factor I think. We may have an option of being partly rent free for a few months after we move though. We aim to live in the southwest and live frugally for the most part.

We will qualify for some welfare options like child benefit too I believe which will help once we establish habitual residence.

Millem · 28-04-2020 4:08pm

movinghome.. wrote: »

I would be happy to be a primary teacher yes.

Regarding costs per year while trying to qualify - I need to sit down properly to work it out but I would guess around 20-25k per year + an initial settling down cost of 10-15k (shipping of some stuff from here, car, utilities).
I will look into part-time work for income right away if this is possible too while doing the training to be a teacher.

Housing will be the biggest factor I think. We may have an option of being partly rent free for a few months after we move though. We aim to live in the southwest and live frugally for the most part.

We will qualify for some welfare options like child benefit too I believe which will help once we establish habitual residence.

Don’t forget tuition fees for your course!

Sustainability of moving home from abroad in 40's with family to become a teacher?

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