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Next governments affect on housing market

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    #242
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,003 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Subutai wrote: »
    I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

    That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.
    You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.
    Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.

    It isn’t a rant. When seeking an attachment to SW payments, regard must be had to the debtor’s particular circumstances including financial circumstances. Deductions may not be made to the extent that they would cause the net scheme payments to the judgement debtor to fall below a certain level. No judge would allow SW payment to fall below the level necessary for an individual/family to get by.

    Governments enact legislation for the judiciary. No Government would introduce legislation that makes it mandatory for SW to pat rent owed to LLs on the basis of an application only being made.


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    #243
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,351 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Subutai wrote: »
    I am responding to the claim that one cannot get an attachment order on social welfare payments. One can.

    That it is impossible to recoup money from somebody with no means is self evident.



    Yes you are right it can be done. Can't be changed to actually happen in any practical way


    You have to go to the District Court to get an enforcement order in any case.


    Your rant is confused about the roles of the government and the judiciary.

    In all practical and realistically terms it is pointless. Like saying you will be fined for speeding every time but you have to be caught and then prosecuted and if you go to the court if you object and the garda has to turn up. It like a very elaborate locking mechanism. Things have to really really line up


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    #244
    J_1980
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Jacinda Ardern progressive government....interesting read

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned


    It has halted the sale of public housing and banned foreign buyers, but the wait for a state house is at a record high and tens of millions of dollars are being spent on emergency motel rooms to house the growing homeless population.

    Restrictive and time-consuming building regulations, the high cost of land and a shortage of skilled labourers also contributed to the failure of the scheme. The high cost of the homes billed as “affordable” also turned off people, with two-bedroom homes going for upwards of NZ$500,000.


    Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland?
    Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be “build cheaply” in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein won’t solve anything.


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    #245
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    J_1980 wrote:
    Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland? Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be “build cheaply†in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein won’t solve anything.


    Again sf aren't in government yet, and it's looking unlikely they will be, so people truly need to relax, normal ffg service will probably resume soon


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    #246
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    J_1980 wrote: »
    Jacinda Ardern progressive government....interesting read

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-vote-disillusioned


    It has halted the sale of public housing and banned foreign buyers, but the wait for a state house is at a record high and tens of millions of dollars are being spent on emergency motel rooms to house the growing homeless population.

    Restrictive and time-consuming building regulations, the high cost of land and a shortage of skilled labourers also contributed to the failure of the scheme. The high cost of the homes billed as “affordable” also turned off people, with two-bedroom homes going for upwards of NZ$500,000.


    Sounds familiar for anyone in Ireland?
    Houses, education and healthcare simply cannot be “build cheaply” in China and imported. One house to build and maintain is the lifetime tax-take of an average earner couple. Sinn Fein won’t solve anything.

    House prices in new Zealand are way higher than in Ireland to boot


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    #247
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    House prices in new Zealand are way higher than in Ireland to boot

    It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well


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    #248
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Fol20 wrote: »
    It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

    Not massively- the median income in NZ last year was EUR52k, versus EUR48k here. The big difference is taxation- in Ireland we have a marginal rate of taxation that tops out at 52% (when you factor PRSI/USC etc into the equation) whereas in NZ its a much more manageable 33% (though their rate of Corporation tax is three times ours).

    Its a game of swings and roundabouts.


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    #249
    J_1980
    Registered Users Posts: 614 ✭✭✭J_1980


    Fol20 wrote: »
    It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=12172282

    Figures show the median annual income for a New Zealand man working full-time is $56,700 and for a woman that amount is almost $10,000 less, at $47,500, according to the latest available income statistics from Stats NZ.

    $56.7k is €33k median. Sounds the same as Ireland, taxes are low here to at that income band. House prices are indeed higher and puts Ireland in perspective. In Ireland everything has to be free and paid by others - If not it’s greed.


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    #250
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    Very good thread on the type of housing that should be persued
    https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty/status/1228639214268538885?s=19


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    #251
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Fol20 wrote: »
    It’s all relative as their incomes are higher as well



    even in small towns , house prices are very high in new zealand , not the case in ireland

    building standards far lower than here too


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    #252
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    Very good thread on the type of housing that should be persued
    https://twitter.com/Orla_Hegarty/status/1228639214268538885?s=19

    Orla Hegarty is an anti-highrise activist who bases all her views on housing, based on the false premise that land is non-hedonic. That may work for public housing being built on public land, but it is not the case for private development built on private land in this country. Unless invoke constitutional change on this matter, land in this country will always be hedonic. Her interest is first and foremost is stopping high-medium rise development in Dublin rather than solving the housing crisis.


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    #253
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    Sheeps wrote: »
    Orla Hegarty is an anti-highrise activist who bases all her views on housing, based on the false premise that land is non-hedonic. That may work for public housing being built on public land, but it is not the case for private development built on private land in this country. Unless invoke constitutional change on this matter, land in this country will always be hedonic. Her interest is first and foremost is stopping high-medium rise development in Dublin rather than solving the housing crisis.
    Nope, she points out that high rise does not equal affordability as once you go over 6 storeys, the construction price increases dramatically. Or in other words, name an affordable high high rise?. Office blocks, hotels etc can do this and make a return, the equivalent for residential is only available for the higher earners. This is based on the construction costs study done by the department.


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    #254
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    We are in the eu, in theory we are close to millions of workers,
    new zealand is not ireland.the government owns 1000,s of acres, of land.
    We could reduce costs by building higher , new zealand and australia have higher house,s prices than ireland.
    Its not likely that people from the eu will travel to new zealand to build house,s .


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    #255
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    riclad wrote: »
    Its not likely that people from the eu will travel to new zealand to build house,s .

    Plenty of Irish have done just that over the past decade.


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    #256
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    Nope, she points out that high rise does not equal affordability as once you go over 6 storeys, the construction price increases dramatically. Or in other words, name an affordable high high rise?. Office blocks, hotels etc can do this and make a return, the equivalent for residential is only available for the higher earners. This is based on the construction costs study done by the department.

    As I said, that is only true where you take the land cost out of the equation. When you build above 6-12 storeys there is an increased cost per unit as you go up sure, but ultimately when you're building on expensive land you can only maximise it's potential by increasing the number of units on a site if you stack the apartments high.

    In any case, if you look at any city where high rise is a solution, high rise is mostly limited to commerical property. This frees up land for lower medium rise residential 8 -12 storey buildings which are more ergonomic for living in.


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    #257
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    Sheeps wrote: »
    As I said, that is only true where you take the land cost out of the equation. When you build above 6-12 storeys there is an increased cost per unit as you go up sure, but ultimately when you're building on expensive land you can only maximise it's potential by increasing the number of units on a site if you stack the apartments high.

    In any case, if you look at any city where high rise is a solution, high rise is mostly limited to commerical property. This frees up land for lower medium rise residential 8 -12 storey buildings which are more ergonomic for living in.
    I've no issue with 8-12 storey, I'm just examining the price of building. I think high land prices can be ameliorated somewhat with a use it or lose it clause to tackle dereliction/vacancy/hoarding in a targeted manner. The price of finance for developers is a problem, but no easy solutions. Fees and taxes could be targeted also.


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