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Tiny Homes

  • 12-02-2020 10:35am
    #1
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭


    I'm not going to be working full time next year, which is great for my sanity and personal development but doesn't sit very well with the bank, who were going to give us mortgage approval for a home loan.

    Were interested in modular or tiny homes. I still have a part time income coming in and the OH is full time so we'll be eligible for a smaller loan. Can anyone recommend any companies in South West Ireland doing them? I've looked into a few but they seem quite expensive and not great value on top of potentially needing to procure a site.

    Any experience/insight welcome, thanks.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You probably can't get a mortgage for one only a loan.

    When the people selling them say they are in a legal grey area that tends to mean they aren't legal but nobody has been prosecuted yet.

    People have said they don't meet building regulation and the response from vendors seems to be there is no specific legislation for log cabins. That really means they have to pass all the standard regulations which many do not appear to comply with.

    Local planning laws will determine where they can be placed and they appear to have to comply with standard planning laws. They could be considered the same as static caravans but they do need planning. Lots of the talk on the vendors sites seem to fudge this and focus on them as extensions to existing buildings.

    They do initially seem like a reasonable idea but any investigation I do suggests there are many reasons not go down that route in Ireland.

    The reality of living in them is also seems to be difficult. People seem to often need storage units and very disciplined on what they keep handy. Need to be incredibly organised and clean to work.


  • #3
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭Caranica


    Search this forum. They come up as "magic housing solutions" every few months.


  • #4
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    I'm not going to be working full time next year, which is great for my sanity and personal development but doesn't sit very well with the bank, who were going to give us mortgage approval for a home loan.

    Were interested in modular or tiny homes. I still have a part time income coming in and the OH is full time so we'll be eligible for a smaller loan. Can anyone recommend any companies in South West Ireland doing them? I've looked into a few but they seem quite expensive and not great value on top of potentially needing to procure a site.

    Any experience/insight welcome, thanks.

    There was an exact thread like this recently, either here or over in the Construction and Planning forum.


  • #5
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=93796623

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=86505723

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107897839

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=108064128

    Plus many more in the search bar.


  • #6
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    Thanks, I searched tiny homes and there was nothing useful but those links look very good.

    Planning regulations loophole is food for thought. The weather here is not ideal for anything lacking stability or wanting for insulation. The amount of space you'd have to give to that alone would make it more like a tiny room than any type of home.


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  • #7
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    Thanks, I searched tiny homes and there was nothing useful but those links look very good.

    Planning regulations loophole is food for thought. The weather here is not ideal for anything lacking stability or wanting for insulation. The amount of space you'd have to give to that alone would make it more like a tiny room than any type of home.

    You can get insulation that is a couple of mm thick and equivalent to 3 feet of old insulation so not the real issue. Building regs and planning are the biggest issues.


  • #8
    Thisonedone
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭Thisonedone


    So does anyone know what the minimum size of a house you can build is in Ireland if you follow all the planning regs?


  • #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Thisonedone wrote: »
    So does anyone know what the minimum size of a house you can build is in Ireland if you follow all the planning regs?

    Planning Regs dictate the size of the dwelling as I highlighted in your other thread on this matter.
    kceire wrote: »
    There is a minimum for good design practices that will have to be passed by the Planning Department before you even approach the Building Regulation requirements.

    Have a look at the Quality Housing for Sustainable Communities document by the Dept. of Environment, Heritage and Local Government.


  • #10
    sKeith
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,404 ✭✭✭✭sKeith


    kceire wrote: »
    Planning Regs dictate the size of the dwelling as I highlighted in your other thread on this matter.


    I haven't read your other post. Can you put up a link to it or answer the question here.


  • #11
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sKeith wrote: »
    I haven't read your other post. Can you put up a link to it or answer the question here.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112523985#post112523985


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  • #12
    Yellow_Fern
    Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You can get insulation that is a couple of mm thick and equivalent to 3 feet of old insulation so not the real issue.

    I love the idea of tiny homes, but this isnt the case. The best insulation out there is vaccum panels. I did a back of the envelope calculation and to get vacumm panels to equal three feet of fibreglass you still have a panel 10 cm thick. Plus it is very expensive and a pin hole prick will render the whole thing useless. A more common solution would aerogel which would still be 40 cm. Both options very expensive.


  • #13
    05eaftqbrs9jlh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭05eaftqbrs9jlh


    This is the company we were looking at. I can't find anything about planning permission so I'll get in touch with them tomorrow and find out.

    A lot of the other threads had shipping containers and modified units like that... That seems very hard to imagine getting planning for, but maybe these tiny homes might get approval. You can also get modular ones that can be adapted to whatever space you have, which I'm looking into.


  • #14
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,847 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    This is the company we were looking at. I can't find anything about planning permission so I'll get in touch with them tomorrow and find out.

    A lot of the other threads had shipping containers and modified units like that... That seems very hard to imagine getting planning for, but maybe these tiny homes might get approval. You can also get modular ones that can be adapted to whatever space you have, which I'm looking into.

    If they are planning and building regulation compliant do you not think they'd advertise it? The fact that the website only mentions temporary uses doesn't inspire confidence.

    It's been said here before that you can make a house out of anything you want, it's the cost of meeting our building regulations that makes building expensive not the materials used.


  • #15
    StupidLikeAFox
    Registered Users Posts: 7,696 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    This is the company we were looking at. I can't find anything about planning permission so I'll get in touch with them tomorrow and find out.

    A lot of the other threads had shipping containers and modified units like that... That seems very hard to imagine getting planning for, but maybe these tiny homes might get approval. You can also get modular ones that can be adapted to whatever space you have, which I'm looking into.

    €57k is the starting price? Why not just get a high end caravan or campervan? At least you will have something to sell on if you change your mind later


  • #16
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Living in camper vans, living in converted shipping containers, living in boats, living in tiny homes/cabins are all a realisation that you do not have to be a slave to the system that 'others' have created to take your money from you.

    Buying houses to make a profit from a so called investment is sheer madness of the highest order. It is something that is only about 40 years old.

    You become a total slave of the system and the finance industry. You actually become a slave to a bank.

    You borrow money from the bank that it doesnt even have. You pay interest on that money which means that you have to give 25 years? of your life to do so. At the same time so much other time of your life is just working to pay the insurance on it.

    Then at the end of that time you may sell it and you may make a profit until you buy your next home because you have to live somewhere. This means that your profit has simply disappeared.

    I see nowt wrong with those log cabins. They are cheap, easily expandable, warm, and can be repaired or maintained with a few euro, a hammer and nail and just two brain cells.

    You may not end up with thousands of profit at the end that you hand over to your Care Home. But you will have been able to do what you wanted to do with your life.

    You can live where you like. You do not have to live by the city and pay more for your home. If there is a recession you wont be worrying about losing your home or losing more than what you paid for it.

    Not all of the world values concrete blocks like they do in Ireland for example. This is mainly an older generation thing. More and more younger people see an alternative way.


  • #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    This is the company we were looking at. I can't find anything about planning permission so I'll get in touch with them tomorrow and find out.

    A lot of the other threads had shipping containers and modified units like that... That seems very hard to imagine getting planning for, but maybe these tiny homes might get approval. You can also get modular ones that can be adapted to whatever space you have, which I'm looking into.

    The company don't care about Planning or Building Regulations. The onus and responsibility to comply is on the home owner, you. So once they erect, its you to face the questions.


  • #18
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,334 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Living in camper vans, living in converted shipping containers, living in boats, living in tiny homes/cabins are all a realisation that you do not have to be a slave to the system that 'others' have created to take your money from you.

    Buying houses to make a profit from a so called investment is sheer madness of the highest order. It is something that is only about 40 years old.

    You become a total slave of the system and the finance industry. You actually become a slave to a bank.

    You borrow money from the bank that it doesnt even have. You pay interest on that money which means that you have to give 25 years? of your life to do so. At the same time so much other time of your life is just working to pay the insurance on it.

    Then at the end of that time you may sell it and you may make a profit until you buy your next home because you have to live somewhere. This means that your profit has simply disappeared.

    I see nowt wrong with those log cabins. They are cheap, easily expandable, warm, and can be repaired or maintained with a few euro, a hammer and nail and just two brain cells.

    You may not end up with thousands of profit at the end that you hand over to your Care Home. But you will have been able to do what you wanted to do with your life.

    You can live where you like. You do not have to live by the city and pay more for your home. If there is a recession you wont be worrying about losing your home or losing more than what you paid for it.

    Not all of the world values concrete blocks like they do in Ireland for example. This is mainly an older generation thing. More and more younger people see an alternative way.

    And back in the real world, they are not a viable solution to long term housing.


  • #19
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    For what reason. People do what 'they' want not what you think they should.

    People live in modular and log cabins or timber house around the world. So how come they aren't any good?

    The idea of arsing around in mud for 6 months building a house out of thousands of little pieces is so prehistoric it is beyond a joke.

    Houses just like everything else should be made in factories efficiently out of suitable materials and assembled in a few days on site.

    The idiocy of what we do now and the costs just do not make sense.


  • #20
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,424 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Op ,have you already got a site ??
    Because its a bit accedemic otherwise ...

    I know a few people who've built log cabin type things , with varying levels of effort and success ,
    But they're usually very rural ,very isolated

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #21
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Francis Faithful Ragweed wrote: »
    This is the company we were looking at. I can't find anything about planning permission so I'll get in touch with them tomorrow and find out.

    A lot of the other threads had shipping containers and modified units like that... That seems very hard to imagine getting planning for, but maybe these tiny homes might get approval. You can also get modular ones that can be adapted to whatever space you have, which I'm looking into.

    It has been explained to you why these are not an option. The people selling them are not the people to ask as their goal is to sell it to you. They can mislead to an extent I would consider it an outright lie.

    Looking at the website it appears they focus on extensions and granny flats. They rely on the ability to add an extension on an existing property. You would be looking planning permission and full building regs compliance as an dwelling. That is a totally different proposition. They have forced people to take them down already.

    People have already gone through this numerous times. If you must prove it to yourself go for it but you are going to be just trying to come up with a theory how it will be legal. Whatever you discover will not change reality. There are people living in them but at any point the council can arrive and say take it down. If you try to sell it you will be lucky and it will be a huge loss if you do.


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  • #22
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    For what reason. People do what 'they' want not what you think they should.

    People live in modular and log cabins or timber house around the world. So how come they aren't any good?

    They do indeed. It is incredibly wasteful.

    Disposable housing is up there with single use plastics.


  • #23
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    pwurple wrote: »
    They do indeed. It is incredibly wasteful.

    Disposable housing is up there with single use plastics.

    You should find out which kind of house is more destructive to the environment. A concrete/brick one or a log cabin before you say that and how is a log cabin single use?


  • #24
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    You should find out which kind of house is more destructive to the environment. A concrete/brick one or a log cabin before you say that and how is a log cabin single use?

    One can last 300+ years relatively easy while the other might last 50 years. Over the life span of a building environmental impact changes due to longevity. How many Georgian or Victorian houses exist versus a pre fab building built 100 years ago? You will be lucky to find any such prefab although my old class room is still standing it is not usable at it is 50 years old.


  • #25
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    One can last 300+ years relatively easy while the other might last 50 years. Over the life span of a building environmental impact changes due to longevity. How many Georgian or Victorian houses exist versus a pre fab building built 100 years ago? You will be lucky to find any such prefab although my old class room is still standing it is not usable at it is 50 years old.

    Well would you be an idiot or just misinformed. Most of the oldest homes in the UK would be timber framed with whats called wattle and dawb in fills which is straw and cow **** to me and you.

    Then you have the 'cobb' homes which are just 3ft thick mud with a bit of straw and cow **** thrown in as well.

    You are talking 500 hundred possibly nearly a thousand years old.

    Log cabins in New Foundland back to 1550 and timber framed builds back to 1300's all continuously lived in........ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4593600/The-oldest-inhabitated-buildings-world.html

    50 years? You been listening to Roundstone too much mate. A timber home is far superior to a concrete block built home any day. In every possible way.

    Old UK mud built houses.......... https://www.google.ie/search?q=old+english+cobb+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjy0p6ohM_nAhXSSEEAHbBaDM4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=old+english+cobb+houses&gs_l=img.12...11553.16566..19062...0.0..0.80.820.12......0....1..gws-wiz-img.6HXFAGqjXuQ&ei=woRFXvLpOdKRhbIPsLWx8Aw&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870

    Old wattle and dawb houses of England hundreds of years old. Just a timber frame with straw and mud or even hand made brick in fill. https://www.google.ie/search?q=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwinqcX6hM_nAhVVOMAKHTg8BI4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&gs_l=img.12...15229.17797..21276...0.0..0.70.539.8......0....1..gws-wiz-img.17jK3ZTLBT0&ei=b4VFXue1IdXwgAa4-JDwCA&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870


  • #26
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You will be lucky to find any such prefab although my old class room is still standing it is not usable at it is 50 years old.

    After WW2 there was a massive need for houses being as the UK and Europe was wrecked so pre-fabs were built.

    They were only supposed to be tempory dwellings so were not built too well. Also a wonder material was used in the panels. Which was a reason for taking them down. Asbestos sheets. Not used anymore.


  • #27
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,345 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Well would you be an idiot or just misinformed. Most of the oldest homes in the UK would be timber framed with whats called wattle and dawb in fills which is straw and cow **** to me and you.

    Then you have the 'cobb' homes which are just 3ft thick mud with a bit of straw and cow **** thrown in as well.

    You are talking 500 hundred possibly nearly a thousand years old.

    Log cabins in New Foundland back to 1550 and timber framed builds back to 1300's all continuously lived in........ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-4593600/The-oldest-inhabitated-buildings-world.html

    50 years? You been listening to Roundstone too much mate. A timber home is far superior to a concrete block built home any day. In every possible way.

    Old UK mud built houses.......... https://www.google.ie/search?q=old+english+cobb+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjy0p6ohM_nAhXSSEEAHbBaDM4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=old+english+cobb+houses&gs_l=img.12...11553.16566..19062...0.0..0.80.820.12......0....1..gws-wiz-img.6HXFAGqjXuQ&ei=woRFXvLpOdKRhbIPsLWx8Aw&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870

    Old wattle and dawb houses of England hundreds of years old. Just a timber frame with straw and mud or even hand made brick in fill. https://www.google.ie/search?q=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwinqcX6hM_nAhVVOMAKHTg8BI4Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=English+wattle+and+daub+houses&gs_l=img.12...15229.17797..21276...0.0..0.70.539.8......0....1..gws-wiz-img.17jK3ZTLBT0&ei=b4VFXue1IdXwgAa4-JDwCA&bih=625&biw=1280&rlz=1C2ASUM_enIE870IE870

    Are they prefab building? I didn't question that wood buildings can last. They require a lot more maintenance to last as long

    Has wood worm or termites brought down a brick building? Wood superior in every way is absolute nonsense. It has advantages and disadvantages just as brick or concrete have.

    How long did you spend study or working on building design. I studied civil engineering. How many wooden bridges are used in Ireland? Do you think wood would be the superior building material.

    You should check yourself before you call somebody an idiot


  • #28
    Bit cynical
    Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical


    Main problem seems to be the regulations which probably need updating.


  • #29
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Are they prefab building? I didn't question that wood buildings can last. They require a lot more maintenance to last as long

    Has wood worm or termites brought down a brick building? Wood superior in every way is absolute nonsense. It has advantages and disadvantages just as brick or concrete have.

    How long did you spend study or working on building design. I studied civil engineering. How many wooden bridges are used in Ireland? Do you think wood would be the superior building material.

    You should check yourself before you call somebody an idiot

    Woodworm can only live in damp wood. It cant live in a dry house. Termites do not exist in the UK or Ireland. Did they not teach you that in your civil engineering?

    You are correct about bridges but that is because of load and span. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    They also use a fair bit of steel in factory built houses now. In fact the best roof for manufacture, installation and maintenance is a steel roof. Far superior to concrete and tile. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    In fact they do make a lot of timber framed vinyl clad and steel formed sheet clad houses now and these are far superior to concrete block houses. Did they not teach you that in civil engineering?

    Concrete block and brick houses can require lots of after care. or again did nobody tell you that.

    When I see a concrete block house as old as a timber or mud house I may listen to you but being as concrete does not have a long shelf life as does brick which can start to decay after the same time which could be a couple of hundred years (not sure exact time span).


  • #30
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,955 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    Look to see if there is a canal or river with house boats.


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  • #31
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 21,999 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    Look to see if there is a canal or river with house boats.
    Would that be a timber or concrete houseboat? :)

    Not your ornery onager



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