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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    8-10 wrote: »
    Why do Irish people watch British soaps - “I don’t, I watch Irish ones”

    Why do Irish people support English clubs - “I don’t, I support Irish ones”


    My impression of your argument is that you don’t get why others don’t like to do the same thing as you for the same reasons you do it based on this individualistic response to a broader question about Irish people in general

    Keeps getting said here - people have different interests and not everybody cares about the LOI being successful

    Rubbish that is just my preference now you are moving the goalposts to targeting me.

    People (auld wans mostly) like soaps watch/watched love hate, eastenders. fair city coronation street, Glenroe etc.

    People who like films watch all sorts of films regardless of where they are made.

    But people who watch soccer in Ireland only watch EPL mostly.
    They actively avoid Irish clubs

    I am not a soccer person ( I am GAA person), I do not consider myself a supporter of any team.
    I watch it now and again on telly. I might even go to the odd game if the humour takes me, but I would not consider myself a supporter of a soccer team. But nonetheless (for example) I will be going to Rovers v Dundalk this month for the craic.

    If I was an Irish soccer person I would be going to as much games as I can everywhere. Regardless of 'quality'.
    But most Irish people don't they fool themselves into thinking they are soccer people but they ignore thier own teams!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    8-10 wrote: »
    You're saying "the Irish people" should support LOI

    I'm saying that we have much more diverse interests as a people than that.

    I'm more interested in EPL being successful personally

    'Diverse interests' reads as snobbery let's be honest.
    It is like those who would not be seen dead at a carvery but go to a five star restaurant because the food is 'too die for'. :D
    Less food (sense of community is the 'food' of an area) , nice presentation (marketing/branding) more expensive (ticket prices/travel).

    If you were a true soccer man you would support your local team or even an Irish team.
    As doing so would benefit Irish soccer in long run and you would get to see games because you like the sport.
    So instead of even supporting an Irish team as well you would rather solely support an English team.
    So do you identify with English culture and all things English more than Irish?
    Regardless of what it says on your passport?
    Is that the problem?
    Or is it just purely branding it has to be branded for you to get it.
    Do you only buy deisgner clothes or do you shop at Dunnes?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    But those who really love the sport would support thier local team.
    As it represents thier area, they can attend live games on a regular basis etc.

    For you the sport is community for others it's different things. Some have mentioned the commercialism but it also could be watching the best in the world play in well drilled teams. The example of the poor champions league final proves this. The standard of the top teams is phenomenal. This is true for many other sports, why we all get sucked into a new sport at the Olympics or how theres so many people who love NFL. Watching people do sport well is deadly.

    Some people mentioned how GAA and soccer people often cannot abide the other sport, this was raised in context of the soccer attendances abroad. There's far far more who like multiple sports and It's still a significant point. The GAA was founded on community and attracts many people to whom that appeals to. If it didn't exist they'd probably be supporting soccer. GAA definitely detracts from the type of people who would go watch soccer.


    Finally, it seems to me that huge amounts of people have been to LOI games a number of times and not become regulars. The community and live thing isn't for them. They want other things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭atilladehun


    'Diverse interests' reads as snobbery lets be honest.
    It is like those who would not be seen dead at a carvery but go to a five star restaurant because the food is 'too die for'. :D
    Less food nice presentation more expensive.

    If you were a true soccer man you would support your local team or even an Irish team.
    As doing so would benefit Irish soccer in long run and you would get to see games because you like the sport.
    So instead of even supporting an Irish team as well you would rather solely support an English team.
    So do you identify with English culture and all things English more than Irish?
    Regardless of what it says on your passport?
    Is that the problem?
    Or is it just purely branding it has to be branded for you to get it.
    Do you only buy deisgner clothes or do you shop at Dunnes?

    This seems like nationalist snobbery though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    bdmc5 wrote: »
    I live maybe 15misn from Cork city stadium. I have enjoyed going to many Cork City Games as well over the last 25 years (LOI, UEFA Cup etc) but i am definitely far more a Liverpool Fan than a Cork City fan and always have been.

    I really dont enjoy the poor standard of football that LOI offers and threads like this only confirm that theres this cohort of LOI fans that have this almost misguided sense of superiority as a fan because they supoort a LOI team than one in UK. LOI Fans like you remind me of Vegans who cant understand people that eat meat - Just astounding smallminded.

    So you consider yourself a soccer man even go to Cork games but are not proud of the club?
    I thought people in Cork were proud of thier City - a proud city?

    I assume by your post you are in your late 20's and grew up with the marketing of the EPL. It looks like that marketing has really 'done a job' on you.
    To say it is 'small-minded' for people to want to support thier local club is baffling.
    As using the phrase shows that you implicitly think that all things Irish are inferior/backward ?
    And to compare it to a vegan v meat argument is even more baffling.
    It is still soccer, it is a soccer game.
    I support no soccer team but I can understand why the LOI fans would be livid at this attitude. It's mad, it is not just mental gymnastics it is almost cult like.
    The 'cult of consumerism' which has nothing to do with the sport of soccer itself which you claim to love.





    .

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    Only smooth brained folk don't recognise why Irish people support English teams and play the lotto.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    This seems like nationalist snobbery though.
    .


    No it's community, creating a sense of community.
    Supporting Irish jobs and the Irish economy.
    If Irish soccer people really cared about Irish soccer they would go to Irish soccer games.
    Some pretend to by supporting the Irish national team (team of journeymen pros mostly) but that that is about it. The Irish EPL supporters have to do some mental gymnastics to justify that as it is - quality is poor etc. But they can ignore that for Ireland games because the players at least play in England?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hobosan


    The 'cult of consumerism' which has nothing to do with the sport of soccer itself which you claim to love.

    Grown Irish men screaming at televisions in pubs while watching English clubs is a marketing campaign that will remain permanently imprinted on susceptible children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    8-10 wrote: »
    You're saying "the Irish people" should support LOI

    I'm more interested in EPL being successful personally

    The Irish football supporters: Best Fans In The World


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    8-10 wrote: »
    You're saying "the Irish people" should support LOI

    I'm saying that we have much more diverse interests as a people than that.

    I'm more interested in EPL being successful personally

    Do you realise how bad that sounds? You're saying you would rather the English equivalent of something we have in Ireland be more successful than its Irish counterpart? Should we just sign back up to the union then? It's one thing to say that it is better but to say you want it to be better, piss right off with that sort of attitude.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    8-10 wrote: »
    You're saying "the Irish people" should support LOI

    I'm saying that we have much more diverse interests as a people than that.

    I'm more interested in EPL being successful personally


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Do you realise how bad that sounds? You're saying you would rather the English equivalent of something we have in Ireland be more successful than its Irish counterpart? Should we just sign back up to the union then? It's one thing to say that it is better but to say you want it to be better, piss right off with that sort of attitude.

    I think is shocking to be honest.
    It is not even because the EPL standard is better alone.
    It seems to be because Irish club soccer is Irish!?

    Yet the same fella would be out with the Irish flags, jersey on 'ole ole ole, stand up for the boys in green' when Ireland play (the big games) and he identifies with the EPL.
    But does not see the connection between more people supporting league soccer in Ireland, and the benefits for the Irish national team, overtime.

    So the Irish soccer team has to solely survive on citizenship rules and get the likes of Robinson, McGoldrick, O'Dowda, Keogh, Christie, Lawrence etc
    And the Good Friday agreement - Duffy, McClean (they were allowed to switch from NI to ROI because of it)

    Sure that's grand isn't it?
    Don't try and watch Shane Long, Coleman, Doyle, McClean, Ward when they played in the LOI sure it's ****e anyway.
    Don't support the teams and improve the level of the Airtricity League so those players stay in Ireland longer.
    Meaning more transfer funds for teams, better facilities, etc
    Sure why bother it is all about the EPL?
    Sure why bother helping the standard rise in Ireland?
    There are Super Sunday's and MNF to watch on the telly.

    The Artricity League 'will always walk alone, will always walk alone' it seems.
    Fair play to them for holding thier 'head up high' though. In the face of this attitude it must be soul destroying.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Such a bizarre attitude.

    I love football and spend my days talking about Liverpool online and go over every now and then, but I don't love football enough to watch a live game here in Ireland.

    Im sure going over to Liverpool is a better experience but to be so dismissive of the sport in your own back yard especially when spending a decent amount heading over thereis a bit bizarre.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Does this have to be the case with all sports?

    Does McGregor have to be my favorite MMA fighter cos he's Irish?

    Does Ken Doc have to be my favorite snooker player?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    8-10 wrote: »
    I could say the same about many sports though. Why can't we fill Malahide for a test match? Why watch the Ashes on TV and not to down to Merrion and support local cricket? Stop our best players going to England? Why do we struggle to fund a baseball diamond in Ashbourne? People watch Red Sox and Yankees and many are travelling over to the London Series this month. Same with NFL over the local league here, why not try make it professional? Why don't people in Donegal get behind hurling more? Why do connacht get lower attendances than Leinster? Why do we watch amateur Boxing and Track in the Olympics but don't go to local events here? Why is our Curling team based in Scotland, unable to get rink time on this island?

    Everyone has different interests mate. Why should I care about the LOI being professional because you do? I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy about it, I would. But I'd much prefer to see more investment in baseball and cricket before it because those are games I'd prefer to go to locally

    We could go through all this if it makes you feel better.
    I'd feel pretty safe to say that more people attend matches in Malahide than intentionally sit down and watch the ashes through.
    Because nobody plays baseball in Ireland probably? Very few people are travelling over and the vast vast majority of those that are aren't going to watch the baseball, they're going to go spend time in London and see it as an event not really baseball.
    Well first of all NFL is the league not the sport. And secondly most American football fans here just have passing interest in it, also the whole makeup of the NFL makes it fundamentally different to football.
    I don't get the Donegal but because its not as if people in Donegal are turning their backs on their own Hurling teams to go support kilkenny or something.
    Because there's more people in Leinster than Connacht.
    People do go to their local events, those that just watch the Olympics aren't and don't claim to be huge fans of the sports they just watch the big occasion.
    Because we don't have an ice rink in Ireland and very few people here care about curling.

    The difference with everything you tried to use to deflect the point is the amount of people that care about the sports here are absolutely tiny, would those that like the sports want them to be professional (or big in the GAA world) but they acknowledge that the number of people that care about the sport is too low to allow it to happen. The difference with football is the numbers of people that claim to like the sport or play it are very high, high enough to reasonably support a professional domestic league but those that claim to like it won't support it, not can't, and that's the difference. It's a refusal not an inability.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Does this have to be the case with all sports?

    Does McGregor have to be my favorite MMA fighter cos he's Irish?

    Does Ken Doc have to be my favorite snooker player?

    Those are individual sports where the players represent themselves first, rather than an area.

    I would watch snooker regularly and would naturally support Ken as he is a nice fella, and has done wonders for the sport in Ireland.
    Back in the day I used to like watching Jimmy White as well.
    Because I like watching snooker as I follow snooker.
    I would have supported Fergal O'Brien because he was local, even though he hardly the most exciting player in the world.
    Plus I wanted him to do well because he is a decent auld salt.

    I don't watch MMA really, watched a McGregor before fight before.
    But I was actually cheering for the other fella because I think McGregor is a bit of an knob.
    Even though I appreciate his dedication to the sport etc he is still a knob Irish or not. IMO. There are other manners in which he could promote his fights.

    But when it comes to soccer a team by its very definition represents a Town/City/Country first.
    It represents a set area/community not an individual.
    The clubs/countries are called after areas after all!

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Those are individual sports where the players represent themselves first, rather than an area.

    I would watch snooker regularly and would naturally support Ken as he is a nice fella and has done wonders for the sport in Ireland.
    Back in the day I used to like watching Jimmy White as well.
    Because I like watching snooker as I follow snooker.
    I would have supported Fergal O'Brien because he was local, even though he hardly the most exciting player in the world.
    I wanted him to do well a decent auld salt.

    I don't watch MMA really, watched a McGregor before fight before. Was actually cheering for the other fella because I think McGregor is a bit of an knob.
    Even though I appreciate his dedication to the sport etc he is still a knob Irish or not. IMO. There are other manners in which he could promote his fights,

    But when it comes to soccer a team by its very definition represents a Town/City/Country. It represents a set area/community not an individual.
    The clubs are called after areas after all!

    The majority of players even at loi clubs aren't from the area of the team tho are they?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    The majority of players even at loi clubs aren't from the area of the team tho are they?

    Wouldn't say majority. Most clubs have a core of players from the local area. Lots of the Rovers team are from Tallaght, Crumlin, and other traditionally Rovers areas anyway, Derry have a lot of Derry born players, to use 2 examples.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    Every Irish person that supports a non-Irish football team will have their reasons for doing so, some will have very unique reasons, others will have very common reasons (dads / brothers etc..)

    I think one of the main drivers is that the best of football is not available on this island, we're semi-professional at best and our best players have always played abroad, mostly in the UK. It's a pity but that's the way it's always been.

    If you love watching Top Quality professional football / World Cups etc unfortunately the nearest you'll get to that is in the UK experience. By the way it's not just an Irish thing, you will meet many other nationalities at UK professional football matches, Norwegians and other Scandinavian folk spring to mind. They are a bit like us in many ways, Football is not their national sport, their local teams are modest in size and they are looking for the BIG GAME experience.

    Personally for me, I started getting into football during the Mexico 86 world cup, I was 11. No family influence, I just liked was I saw and wanted more of it. I went to my first UK game in 1987 and I've been going regularly since.

    It would be much easier for me if I had gotten the bug for the league of Ireland or inter county GAA but neither did anything for me, even the Irish national team was a bit drab compared to the club matches across the water.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    I was dressed in Celtic kit at 2 days old before I even left the hospital. I was born into it. My father's parents are Scottish of Irish decent. Not a choice. I don't think that makes me any less of a football fan than someone who supports Cork or Dundalk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    The Premier League is clearly a number one global brand.

    According to this 1 Billion people around the world say they 'follow' the EPL
    Half of them are in Asia.



    Am I the only one who thinks it adds to the insincerity of it all when famous people claim to be supporters of an EPL club?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2290252/Up-the-Irons-Barack-Obama-is-West-Ham-fan.html

    Obama = West Ham
    Hillary and Bill Clinton = Man United
    Osama Bin Laden = Arsenal

    And so on....


    From that article there are only two that appear to be genuine supporters

    John Major = Chelsea
    Gordon Brown = Raith Rovers

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    The responses on this thread remain the same. LOI fans saying people should go to LOI games and those that don't finding excuses not to.

    The fact is - It will take a long time for the attendances in the LOI to go up, the influx of people with a culture that is used to attending and following sporting events weekly is helping.

    For many here football is a TV event to be visited in person every couple of months as an occasion rather than weekly.

    Getting young kids involved early in going to games and building a rapport with them is the only way to combat this.

    The usual excuses will come out:
    Facilities - Tallaght has superb facilities but the attendances while improving when Rovers are doing well are still relatively small

    Quality of football is poor - We just had the worst Champions League final in Quality terms in the last 20 years played by one of the best "supported" teams by Irish people. Will this quality turn them off Liverpool? NOPE

    The same goes for most sports in Ireland, the brand, the occasion and the Glory Hunting show.

    In GAA the league games and even early championship games in Dublin see very few in attendance relative to how many will be there for the semis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Every Irish person that supports a non-Irish football team will have their reasons for doing so, some will have very unique reasons, others will have very common reasons (dads / brothers etc..)

    I think one of the main drivers is that the best of football is not available on this island, we're semi-professional at best and our best players have always played abroad, mostly in the UK. It's a pity but that's the way it's always been.

    If you love watching Top Quality professional football / World Cups etc unfortunately the nearest you'll get to that is in the UK experience. By the way it's not just an Irish thing, you will meet many other nationalities at UK professional football matches, Norwegians and other Scandinavian folk spring to mind. They are a bit like us in many ways, Football is not their national sport, their local teams are modest in size and they are looking for the BIG GAME experience.

    Personally for me, I started getting into football during the Mexico 86 world cup, I was 11. No family influence, I just liked was I saw and wanted more of it. I went to my first UK game in 1987 and I've been going regularly since.

    It would be much easier for me if I had gotten the bug for the league of Ireland or inter county GAA but neither did anything for me, even the Irish national team was a bit drab compared to the club matches across the water.

    The difference is if you go to a developed country and ask a football fan who they support their local team will at least get a mention, in Ireland it's " oh I'm a die hard (insert successful English team here) fan. What? Support my local club? Sure why would I watch that ****e"

    I was dressed in Celtic kit at 2 days old before I even left the hospital. I was born into it. My father's parents are Scottish of Irish decent. Not a choice. I don't think that makes me any less of a football fan than someone who supports Cork or Dundalk.

    Again its not mutually exclusive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I was dressed in Celtic kit at 2 days old before I even left the hospital. I was born into it. My father's parents are Scottish of Irish decent. Not a choice. I don't think that makes me any less of a football fan than someone who supports Cork or Dundalk.

    Of course you have a choice.
    I have two Scottish cousins (both brothers) - one supports Rangers and the other Celtic!

    It does not mean that you cannot support your local Irish team aswell or your nearest Irish team aswell.
    Does it?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    its not as if people in Donegal are turning their backs on their own Hurling teams to go support kilkenny or something.
    .


    Exactly. Some people seem to be missing this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    Of course you have a choice.
    I have two Scottish cousins (both brothers) - one supports Rangers and the other Celtic!

    It does not mean that you cannot support your local Irish team aswell or your nearest Irish team aswell.
    Does it?

    This is where your definitions are different. Someone going to LOI games defines "supporting" as going to games, caring about the results, following the team to away games as much as they can, soaking up the atmosphere etc...

    Those that don't go to games see "supporting" as watching on TV, following the results, purchasing the merchandise and possibly going to a few games and then talking about it.

    Since the sky sports era came in, for Irish people the definition of supporting has split whereas in other countries they aren't mutually exclusive.

    In Scandanavia (the examples most seem to want to use) you will have lots of supporters of the big English teams, getting over once a year and also going to watch their local side. Same in most countries, even in England many will have a Spanish side the support (usually Real or Barca) and in Spain you have Spanish people supporting one of those but also the local team.

    It will take a long time for that attitude to come in here but good marketing, community work and little improvements over time should help in that.

    UEFA limiting places in the elite competitions for clubs from smaller nations will make it near impossible over the coming years for an Irish team to qualify for the Champions League group stage or even the Europa League and that will set the league back again unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,317 ✭✭✭Dublin Spur


    So what have we actually got here in this thread?
    Some folk criticising other folk based on their sports team choices.
    It was never going to go well was it?

    People will like what they like, for their own reasons and and some other people will not understand - happens all the time across the board.

    For what its worth I've renewed my Tottenham Hotspur season ticket :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    SHOVELLER wrote: »
    I know exactly what football is and what it means. It is you who does not understand what being a fan is. Why don't you "support" hartlepool? You chose your club simply because everybody else "supports" them and they have won trophies. That is the true definition of glory hunting and shows a staggering lack of understanding of what football is all about.

    Having a true connection with a club means it is local not somewhere where you have to get on a plane. You have a real connection:D

    Again there is no rule as it is common sense. I will make it real easy for you. As an example if you go see Valencia or AIK play the vast majority of people at the game will be from those cities.

    I always talk up our league btw but selling it to barstoolers is a lost cause as they are utterly brainwashed.
    ...So instead of cheering on a tv they actually go to games. Real fans;)

    A fan is a person who supports a particular football team, if you look in the dictionary there's nothing in there about it having to be a local team or that your required to go to a certain number of matches each year. Because you prefer live football you think everyone should but some people prefer watching football on tv, people enjoy different things. You cant expect everyone to pay to watch live football as not every football fan is going to think it offers value for money. To some football fans supporting your community isnt that important to them.

    I started supporting my team simply because they played lovely football and they had players that could do amazing things and yes having some sort of success is a requirement as to get enjoyment from football, you need highs to get you through the lows. I don't particularly like De Bruyne but he can do things LOI players cant do, when he plays well its worth paying money to watch him play, when you get use to watching football at the highest level its becomes hard to know wheter or not a LOI match is worth the admission price. The number 1 reason to watch football is enjoyment and lots of EPL fans dont know wheter or not they would enjoy LOI football. Barstoolers are not brainwashed, there just use to a higher standard of football.

    Yes the majority will be from Valencia, but the minority are welcome at the club. Does any club in the world have signs up saying locals only? Football has changed, there may of been a time when it was about supporting your community but that's changed. Clubs are just businesses looking to get bigger, there there to make a profit. If a Japanese man goes to a LOI match the club will be happy to take his money and hope that he tells his Japanese friends about it when he goes home. If he was to become a Rovers fan they would be delighted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,464 ✭✭✭Ultimate Seduction


    Of course you have a choice.
    I have two Scottish cousins (both brothers) - one supports Rangers and the other Celtic!

    It does not mean that you cannot support your local Irish team aswell or your nearest Irish team aswell.
    Does it?

    Do you not understand? I was supporting a forigen team before I even knew there was an Irish league! Since before I could walk I was in Park head. You think I should suddenly decide at 9 or 10 years old that I should switch clubs and start supporting a local team?

    I'll hope any Irish team does well in European competition obviously, but I couldn't give a crap who wins the domestic league or cup.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I think one of the main drivers is that the best of football is not available on this island

    If that's the case, the country would be full of Brazil/France fans and not Ireland fans.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    its not as if people in Donegal are turning their backs on their own Hurling teams to go support kilkenny or something.
    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Exactly. Some people seem to be missing this.

    Willfully missing it I'd suggest


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