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How to register motorcycle club??

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,209 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    This attitude of entitlement is a strange one. There's no requirement for motorsport facilities to be provided just because a few people want them.

    There might be an argument for a pay as you go facility to be built, but it would be very expensive.
    This attitude of entitlement is a strange one. There's no requirement for motorsport facilities to be provided just because a few people want them.

    There might be an argument for a pay as you go facility to be built, but it would be very expensive.

    There is actually! They won't built it, they can provide land and part of the money. Depends on a lot of things. You need to be organised (which is doubtful in this case) but it's normal enough to be given land and money through government grants, lotto grants and county council. You'll only be given a small percentage of the money, hence clubs always trying to raise money. Even well funded local clubs with lots of members like GAA clubs.
    To get a grant or land, you need a few things, be a proper sport, registered club, insured, certain amount of members. If you had all that and had 5000 members they'd listen. Having 10 lads with a bike, no organized club you'll be laughed at.

    Even if you did get a field handed to you and €5 grant, there's probably all sorts of requirements from the insurance like having toilets, having areas barricaded off, having first aid on site. If you were given a random field you'd need to put in a car park. Your €5k would be spent just talking to people about building the car park, never mind a machine breaking ground.
    Without and endless supply of cash, you need a lot of members willing to give up their time. A few builders, guy with a digger, solicitor, couple of brothers or sisters of high up councilors can save you tens of thousands.

    Just googling motocross tracks ireland, there's a few around already. Definitely not worth starting your own when there's already a few others.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭ratracer


    LIGHTNING wrote: »
    I hear this all the time, sounds like a great business opportunity! Why then do I see a million posts like this across boards and it goes nowhere...

    Most definitely because it would be uninsurable!! The one private mountain bike facility that put huge investment into their tracks ( Bike Park Ireland) had to close after a couple of years. Despite being a very well run, and used, place, their increasing insurance costs simply made it unviable. I can't imagine an MX facility having any easier time with insurance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,209 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Most people view off road motor biking in a bad light due to the association with antisocial behaviour in housing estates. I personally also think the noise of it is a sort of antisocial behaviour. Why should people have to listen to the racket of these yokes on a sunday afternoon.
    That's the exact reason a club is good! I live in clondalkin, if someone built a club in west dublin so the skangers could go there, I'd be delighted. Gives people a place to meet, a common interest.
    But again, noise is the big problem. Imagine it being built within 100m of your house? Christ. There is land that could be used, near casement aerodrome for example.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Insurance costs.
    You'd need planning permission. That then requires all sorts of environmental assessments for the effects on water, the ground. Engineers to design car park facilities, toilets, drainage with measures to prevent pollution of watercourses, a proper road entrance. You'd need to show some sort of plan that you can deal with fires or medical emergencies.
    And all this, you can't just cobble it together yourself - you need to get professionals in each field to do it. And they don't come cheap. Professional fees are the biggest cost in a planning application.
    And then building it to make it happen is a whole other level of cost.

    And then you have to deal with the objectors in the area. Realistically, no-one is going to want this sort of thing in their area. So you will be fighting an uphill battle.
    Antisocial behaviour is going to be a major concern. The thing is, if a rural person, say a farmer's son has one of these bikes, they can just tip it around the fields at home. But if a club track is to be made, then it is probably going to be largely people coming out from towns and cities to use it. And in those places, those with the bikes tend to be associated with more antisocial behaviour and trouble making. That will be another reason the local community will not want it - the risk of outsiders coming in causing trouble.

    I live in Douglas, Cork. Vernon mount is a few miles away and I can hear the bikes regularly making noise. It is so annoying. And I can only imagine how annoying it is for people living over the way closer to it. And they have the whole area around vernon mount absolutely destroyed. The place is like a perpetual building site - all torn up. There are probably massive amounts of silt laden runoff running down into the tramore river.
    If that place had not been a bike track, it is likely that it would not have attacted the antisocial behaviour that resulted in the burning of the house.

    By all means, if you have a club bank account with a million in it you might get going OK.

    But a few lads with a few bikes - get rich or keep dreaming.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Cienciano wrote: »
    There is actually! They won't built it, they can provide land and part of the money. Depends on a lot of things. You need to be organised (which is doubtful in this case) but it's normal enough to be given land and money through government grants, lotto grants and county council. You'll only be given a small percentage of the money, hence clubs always trying to raise money. Even well funded local clubs with lots of members like GAA clubs.
    To get a grant or land, you need a few things, be a proper sport, registered club, insured, certain amount of members. If you had all that and had 5000 members they'd listen. Having 10 lads with a bike, no organized club you'll be laughed at.

    Even if you did get a field handed to you and €5 grant, there's probably all sorts of requirements from the insurance like having toilets, having areas barricaded off, having first aid on site. If you were given a random field you'd need to put in a car park. Your €5k would be spent just talking to people about building the car park, never mind a machine breaking ground.
    Without and endless supply of cash, you need a lot of members willing to give up their time. A few builders, guy with a digger, solicitor, couple of brothers or sisters of high up councilors can save you tens of thousands.

    Just googling motocross tracks ireland, there's a few around already. Definitely not worth starting your own when there's already a few others.

    They won't do anything. They won't provide funding, land or anything. They don't want to nor need to.

    It's up to you and your buddies to fund your own new track, or just use existing ones.

    p.s. Could you imagine the scobes in housing estates (at whom this legislation is aimed) putting their scramablers and quads into trailers/vans and heading to a track for an organised but expensive event? No nor could I.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Exactly. The scumbags on scramblers aren't interested in organised sport events. They are doing it just for the hell of it and to intimidate and terrorise as many people as possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,459 ✭✭✭zubair


    The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.

    Also it really wouldn't be that hard to find someone in the kildare bog land with a couple of acres no good for farming that would let you use it, obviously you'd have to pay them but I doubt it would be extortionate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    zubair wrote: »
    The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.

    It's a way to take bikes of repeat offenders that are known to them but for obvious reasons wouldn't give chase to.

    "Oh look little Johnny is on a non road legal bike, on the n81 with no helmet.
    Grand we'll head to his house ad grab the bike in a bit."

    If anyone even attempted to challenge that law the first thing thrown at them would be that poor fella in the park a few years ago.

    It's a bloody insurance nightmare, with bikes it's not if an accident occurs its when and how bad.

    Are you going to inspect each individual bike is upto a standard to be there without being a danger to anyone?

    I love bikes but jesus the noise of those things rots me after 10 minutes, my neighbours hate the sound of me coming and going and I'm on a 600cc sports bike that still has a baffle, they'd be miserable with little 2 strokes going around all day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,209 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    They won't do anything. They won't provide funding, land or anything. They don't want to nor need to.

    It's up to you and your buddies to fund your own new track, or just use existing ones.

    p.s. Could you imagine the scobes in housing estates (at whom this legislation is aimed) putting their scramablers and quads into trailers/vans and heading to a track for an organised but expensive event? No nor could I.

    No, this won't get past the first hurdle. You'll need an organized club, members, treasurers, probably a bank account, insurance etc, hold AGM's etc before they even talk to you.

    I knew a guy who worked on sports grants, 99% of grants applications are done so bad they don't make it past the first stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,209 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    It's a way to take bikes of repeat offenders that are known to them but for obvious reasons wouldn't give chase to.

    "Oh look little Johnny is on a non road legal bike, on the n81 with no helmet.
    Grand we'll head to his house ad grab the bike in a bit."

    If anyone even attempted to challenge that law the first thing thrown at them would be that poor fella in the park a few years ago.

    It's a bloody insurance nightmare, with bikes it's not if an accident occurs its when and how bad.

    Are you going to inspect each individual bike is upto a standard to be there without being a danger to anyone?

    I love bikes but jesus the noise of those things rots me after 10 minutes, my neighbours hate the sound of me coming and going and I'm on a 600cc sports bike that still has a baffle, they'd be miserable with little 2 strokes going around all day.

    Yeah, there's a nice park near me, corkagh park and you'd be out there having a picnic with the kids and a few of their friends and then 10 scramblers would come across the park. Absolute scumbags. You can hear them miles away. All kids around 15 who's parents don't give a fúck. It's sad really.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    zubair wrote: »
    The new law is clearly targeting anti social behaviour and I'd be 100% behind it. It's not intended to do they can send guards into the wilderness finding lads on trails.

    Also it really wouldn't be that hard to find someone in the kildare bog land with a couple of acres no good for farming that would let you use it, obviously you'd have to pay them but I doubt it would be extortionate.

    Nobody with any shred of sense would give scrambler bikers permission to go into their land.

    Firstly they would have the place absolutely destroyed with holes and ruts.
    Then if anything happens and someone is hurt, it'll be the landowner that is liable.
    What are you likely to get for it? A few hundred quid or so for a fairly big risk of problems.
    Next you drive by some day and find they or some associates of theirs are in there after making ramps or water holes or some other mad thing.
    Next you'll never get fellas out of it. Even if the first lads who approached you for it go away, you'll have other fellas getting wind of it and coming down trespassing on you.
    ANyone living locally will blame the bikers for any damage or theft in the immediate locality, and will blame the landowner for inviting in these outsiders.


    Also, if it is being used as a scrambler run, then it is a change of use and will require planning permission. And if there is a complaint in to the council, it is the land owners they will be going after to reinstate the land to it's prior condition and rectify any environmental damage. All probably at a quite substantial cost to the landowner. And plenty hassle too.
    The scrambler lads won't want to know about it and will ride off into the sunset on their scramblers, with the poor landowner left behind to foot the bill.

    No way in hell would I be letting bikes in on my land. Too much to go wrong for feck all benefit only hassle. So no, it would actually be very hard to find someone (well, someone with a bit of sense) to let you into their land for scrambling.

    If anyone has any doubts about it, I'll say go up to the grounds of Vernon Mount and have a look at the absolute cut of the place. The likes of the erosion going on in there is bonkers. In rainy weather there is silt laden soupy runoff down on the access road in off of the N40. The place is an environmental disaster zone from the pounding the ground gets from the bikes.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    Exactly. The scumbags on scramblers aren't interested in organised sport events. They are doing it just for the hell of it and to intimidate and terrorise as many people as possible.

    Wouldn't agree with that entirely.

    They are using scramblers etc. wherever they want because they are allowed do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 665 ✭✭✭Esho



    I live in Douglas, Cork. Vernon mount is a few miles away and I can hear the bikes regularly making noise. It is so annoying. And I can only imagine how annoying it is for people living over the way closer to it. And they have the whole area around vernon mount absolutely destroyed. The place is like a perpetual building site - all torn up. There are probably massive amounts of silt laden runoff running down into the tramore river. .

    Yes I lived close to this for a while, it is noisy but looks well run.
    They even have an ambo on site when doing time trials.

    I'd give them a shout - I think its great that there's this facility for trial bikes.

    As regards the anti-social behaviour, maybe bikers are a different breed - a mate of mine broke his spine when he came off his bike in mid-air.
    After he finished slagging me for my new haircut while immobile and in traction, he said "Yeah, if this happens again, I'll give up biking! :D

    His anti-social behaviour sounded like loads of fun.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Sorry, the place is a disaster zone. Whatever about the events that are run there, the whole site is an environmental disaster. Take a walk through it. You can because the site boundaries aren't at all secure.
    With most of the vegetation stripped off, a heavy shower of rain carries soil literally by the ton down the steep slopes, out on to the access road, and ultimately down into the Tramore River and Douglas Estuary.

    How this place is allowed to function as it is without planning permission, i do not know. It is a crazy set up to have right beside housing estates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,209 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    another on here in cork. Looks good

    https://goo.gl/maps/zKQXLgbVaRrm1QXi9


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Another place with no planning permission.


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Esho wrote: »
    Yes I lived close to this for a while, it is noisy but looks well run.
    They even have an ambo on site when doing time trials.

    I'd give them a shout - I think its great that there's this facility for trial bikes.

    As regards the anti-social behaviour, maybe bikers are a different breed - a mate of mine broke his spine when he came off his bike in mid-air.
    After he finished slagging me for my new haircut while immobile and in traction, he said "Yeah, if this happens again, I'll give up biking! :D

    His anti-social behaviour sounded like loads of fun.

    We ride around on with a tank of petrol and an engine between our legs, I'd argue we're not all in it to be fair hahaha.

    I got brought off in an ambulance after a bike accident, call to the mother to meet me there for a lift home, call to the misses let her know I came off.
    I'm there laughing and joking away, hang up, your man in the ambulance there laughing away at me saying you're in great humour for someone who's injured and wrote off their bike.
    We're mostly a special kind of people.

    There'd be people round my way same as your mate nearly die and as soon as they're up they're on the way to buy a new one. To be fair for the most part a great community that can't help each other enough even if you're a complete stranger.

    The adults and young fellas the law is aimed at are definitely not part of our community.


  • Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    Sorry, the place is a disaster zone. Whatever about the events that are run there, the whole site is an environmental disaster. Take a walk through it. You can because the site boundaries aren't at all secure.
    With most of the vegetation stripped off, a heavy shower of rain carries soil literally by the ton down the steep slopes, out on to the access road, and ultimately down into the Tramore River and Douglas Estuary.

    How this place is allowed to function as it is without planning permission, i do not know. It is a crazy set up to have right beside housing estates.

    You want to talk about environmental disasters, please comment on this mess
    Screenshot-2021-02-23-at-19-49-17.png

    All Coillte are interested in are clearing forests for as much profit as they can get. Most of the forests around our area have been destroyed by clear cut logging, a few trails from bikes hardly compare with the devastation caused by the track machines and logging equipment that they use


  • Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    Leinster off road was granted over 6000 acres in wexford for off road jeeps, but insurance has killed the club in the last few years. I don't think anyone is asking for facilities to be setup and government funded, just looking for access to forest areas to legally ride as most people just want to do it legally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Another place with no planning permission.

    Houses 200m away too, jaysus.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    Houses 200m away too, jaysus.

    Track was there long before that house was


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Track was there long before that house was

    People whose house was built long after Dublin Airport still give out about the noise :rolleyes:

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    People whose house was built long after Dublin Airport still give out about the noise :rolleyes:

    I worked at some venues for various concerts and events and someone came to my gate complaining about the noise. Obvious question you're beside a venue and it predates your house what did you expect haha.

    I know a few lads head up a forest/farm land every other weekend, none have had any bother. Farmer doesn't use the field, forest is never walked in from what I'm told and they leave it as close to as they found it as they can, don't think there's ever been a word said. Lovely views too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,996 ✭✭✭two wheels good


    .....

    That will be another reason the local community will not want it - the risk of outsiders coming in causing trouble.

    I live in Douglas, Cork. Vernon mount is a few miles away and I can hear the bikes regularly making noise. It is so annoying. And I can only imagine how annoying it is for people living over the way closer to it. And they have the whole area around vernon mount absolutely destroyed. The place is like a perpetual building site - all torn up. There are probably massive amounts of silt laden runoff running down into the tramore river.
    If that place had not been a bike track, it is likely that it would not have attacted the antisocial behaviour that resulted in the burning of the house.
    .

    Vernon Mount was a legal venue for MX events for decades. Staged a leg of the world championship leg at least twice. It was also the headquarters of a 100 year old and venerable motor club. MX events were usually once a month, maybe twice in summer. My memory is locals were tolerant of the noise.

    There is no evidence that the arson on the house was related to motorcyclists. That's scurrilous speculation on your part. You said yourself the boundary isn't secure. It was common knowledge in the area that it was a venue for bush drinking parties. So the arsonists responsible are more likely to have been your neighbours than the "outsiders" you want to demonise.

    You think bare earth is an environmental disaster? And some silt in the river? Ha! Slurry-spreading season will be starting soon where I live.
    Located on that river is a ring-road, a retail park, a shopping centre and the old city dump. What do you think the run-off is from that lot?
    Tidy towns and the scouts pulled approx ten shopping trolleys and a lorry-load of crap out of a short stretch of the river a couple of years ago.
    So please .. a little perspective.

    It's not an appropriate venue for an "open every day" MX track but the precedent has been established and occasional events ought to be permitted. (Parc Ui Caoimh isnt in an appropriate location either but five suburbs have to put up with occasional match day traffic jams)

    If locals, or those vile outsiders, are trespassing on their motorbikes I suggest you demand the owners secure the site. Oh wait, the owners left the place go to rack and ruin.
    I won't condemn the trespassing bikers. I did the same myself once upon a time. Should make another visit maybe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    Vernon Mount was a legal venue for MX events for decades. Staged a leg of the world championship leg at least twice. It was also the headquarters of a 100 year old and venerable motor club. MX events were usually once a month, maybe twice in summer. My memory is locals were tolerant of the noise.

    There is no evidence that the arson on the house was related to motorcyclists. That's scurrilous speculation on your part. You said yourself the boundary isn't secure. It was common knowledge in the area that it was a venue for bush drinking parties. So the arsonists responsible are more likely to have been your neighbours than the "outsiders" you want to demonise.

    You think bare earth is an environmental disaster? And some silt in the river? Ha! Slurry-spreading season will be starting soon where I live.
    Located on that river is a ring-road, a retail park, a shopping centre and the old city dump. What do you think the run-off is from that lot?
    Tidy towns and the scouts pulled approx ten shopping trolleys and a lorry-load of crap out of a short stretch of the river a couple of years ago.
    So please .. a little perspective.

    It's not an appropriate venue for an "open every day" MX track but the precedent has been established and occasional events ought to be permitted. (Parc Ui Caoimh isnt in an appropriate location either but five suburbs have to put up with occasional match day traffic jams)

    If locals, or those vile outsiders, are trespassing on their motorbikes I suggest you demand the owners secure the site. Oh wait, the owners left the place go to rack and ruin.
    I won't condemn the trespassing bikers. I did the same myself once upon a time. Should make another visit maybe.

    I know plenty of grass roots and world class mx riders not champion level but good enough to compete and tracks are hallowed grounds. They'd never destroy anything around their track.
    The type of young fella that rides a non road legal bike on the road around estates and parks won't be taking part in legit mx events for the most part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭goblin59


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    I worked at some venues for various concerts and events and someone came to my gate complaining about the noise. Obvious question you're beside a venue and it predates your house what did you expect haha.

    I know a few lads head up a forest/farm land every other weekend, none have had any bother. Farmer doesn't use the field, forest is never walked in from what I'm told and they leave it as close to as they found it as they can, don't think there's ever been a word said. Lovely views too.

    Button factory use to always get complaints by a resident who moved to an apartment nearby knowing about the music venue.

    you still working in concerts, or out of that for now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Mjolnir


    goblin59 wrote: »
    Button factory use to always get complaints by a resident who moved to an apartment nearby knowing about the music venue.

    you still working in concerts, or out of that for now?

    Been out of that for a while thankfully had some great laughs at people's stupidity, the amount of random notes you find on the ground is unreal too.

    I remember laffyetes or however you spell it actually got shut down for a week over noise complaints before the button factory started getting loads or around the same time.

    There was some seriously stupid complaints put in, mate ya live over/ beside a nightclub/ venue what do you honestly expect.

    I'd rather a club noise for 4 hours than a 2 stroke for the same length though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,830 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    OP, I suggest you take a look at the Motocross Ireland, Motorcycling Ireland and Dirtbike Ireland, websites and facebook pages, if you want to start a club, there are plenty of facilities in place at the moment with tracks in Cork Wexford Kildare Dublin Westmeath and Louth, plus lots of grasstrack events, to use these tracks you have to be a member of one of the registered clubs, you don't have to compete, there are plenty of practice days without racing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Mjolnir wrote: »
    I remember laffyetes or however you spell it actually got shut down for a week over noise complaints before the button factory started getting loads or around the same time.

    There is some crackpot living near Lucan (where Dublin Airport noise would be low) who has made something like 5000 noise complaints against Dublin Airport :rolleyes:

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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