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Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

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Comments

  • Options
    #3752
    JW7
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭JW7


    EI to Manchester yesterday, 140 on board
    130 of them transiting from the Dubai flight that morning.


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    #3753
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Tenger wrote: »
    Some of those 54 no shows may have reassessed their plans and will travel later. Many may have rebooked via LHR or MAN to enter Scotland by land.
    Another reason to have a 2 island solution, with mandatory quarantine.
    I think quarantine is supposed to be booked in advance, which would have caught a lot of them. 6/50 to me sounds like the proportion of people who keep their ear very close to the ground for all the short-notice changes.


    Wonder if flying over to the UK to get the jab would count as "essential", because it looks like what I will end up doing. Those flights to Tenerife for dental appointments were taking the p..


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    #3754
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    JW7 wrote: »
    EI to Manchester yesterday, 140 on board
    130 of them transiting from the Dubai flight that morning.
    As in DXB-DUB-MAN?
    Maybe DXB-MAN isn't operating daily?
    PommieBast wrote: »
    ..........
    Wonder if flying over to the UK to get the jab would count as "essential", because it looks like what I will end up doing.
    I think it should. After all it is travel for a medical procedure.
    Can you organise it to get the jab in N.I.?


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    #3755
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    UK has banned flights from UAE so the back door is being used.

    Good business if you can get it, UK imposed full hotel quarantine this morning so lot of people rushing to get back, can't see that going wrong in anyway.

    And if you can somehow get an appointment for vaccination in NI then its a medical procedure by appointment and no restriction on movement, same going to the UK, getting back though could be a problem


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    #3756
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    UK has banned flights from UAE so the back door is being used

    Precisely why we need quarantine here as well.
    A 2 island solution is needed.


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    #3757
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Transit passengers are going to be excused in most circumstances.

    The real question is how many declared in MAN to have come from the UAE. If they through checked the luggage they are caught as the labels will be white/orange strip, not white/green as we use in EU. Otherwise if they are smart enough to present only a drivers license...


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    #3758
    JW7
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭JW7


    Tenger wrote: »
    As in DXB-DUB-MAN?
    Maybe DXB-MAN isn't operating daily?


    I think it should. After all it is travel for a medical procedure.
    Can you organise it to get the jab in N.I.?

    EI Dub-Man


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    #3759
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Good business if you can get it, UK imposed full hotel quarantine this morning so lot of people rushing to get back, can't see that going wrong in anyway.
    Part of the problem is using £100-200 per night hotels and expecting the "guests" to pay for it.


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    #3760
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PommieBast wrote: »
    Part of the problem is using £100-200 per night hotels and expecting the "guests" to pay for it.

    You want the taxpayer to pay for someone's hotel stay?

    Or someone else?


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    #3761
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    PommieBast wrote: »
    Part of the problem is using £100-200 per night hotels and expecting the "guests" to pay for it.

    I see this as less of a problem than politely asking people to restrict their movements out of a sense of concern for others.


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    #3762
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You want the taxpayer to pay for someone's hotel stay?

    Or someone else?
    For that price? Yes. They should have used cheaper hotels.


    Tenger wrote: »
    I see this as less of a problem than politely asking people to restrict their movements out of a sense of concern for others.
    The problem was that they never bothered checking on people. Not even a phone call. :mad:


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    #3763
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    PommieBast wrote: »
    For that price? Yes. They should have used cheaper hotels.

    Don't you think that is part of the strategy to discourage travel?


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    #3764
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    PommieBast wrote: »
    The problem was that they never bothered checking on people. Not even a phone call. :mad:
    It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.

    To my mind they should have recruited far far more contact tracers from the industries who were shut down.


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    #3765
    basill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭basill


    Tenger wrote: »
    It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.

    To my mind they should have recruited far far more contact tracers from the industries who were shut down.


    Cabin crew across Europe were used in many roles such as contact tracing and primary care in the early stages but not here. Also being used as first aid trained to help out with vaccinations. But I think this would only highlight how little vaccine the Irish government has which is why its a softly softly approach. Probably same reason for why each and every chemist isn't jabbing.


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    #3766
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    It's not vaccination but 2 cabin crew who I know got work in Covid-19 test centres.
    Neither of them has any work from their actual employer so 3-4 shifts a week in the centre filling in paperwork gives them some sense of helping out.


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    #3767
    Noxegon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    Tenger wrote: »
    It's been reported that they had capacity issues. So, yes they did make calls. Just not enough to get every arrival.

    It would be interesting to know what percentage of arrivals they spoke to. I travelled in July and September last year - and I isolated for two weeks afterwards on both occasions. I wasn’t called after either trip.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



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    #3768
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Noxegon wrote: »
    It would be interesting to know what percentage of arrivals they spoke to. I travelled in July and September last year - and I isolated for two weeks afterwards on both occasions. I wasn’t called after either trip.

    I recall reading a article about. I think their capacity was 1500 a day, which is pretty paltry in my opinion.


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    #3769
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    basill wrote: »
    Cabin crew across Europe were used in many roles such as contact tracing and primary care in the early stages but not here. Also being used as first aid trained to help out with vaccinations. But I think this would only highlight how little vaccine the Irish government has which is why its a softly softly approach. Probably same reason for why each and every chemist isn't jabbing.

    Err.. Ireland is getting the exact same amount of vaccines as every other EU country (proportional to population of course).

    In terms of rollout of vaccine, we are currently above the EU average, in 9th position. We are actually quiet a bit ahead big countries like Germany, France, Italy, etc.

    We were like 3rd in the EU last week, but the decision not to use the Astrazenca/Oxford vaccine in over 65 year olds slowed the planned rollout down a bit last week versus countries that have gone ahead using it on over 65's.

    That is a safety issue and given the data currently available the right decision for now. It shouldn't be a big issue, it will only slow things down a week or two and over 65's will get the more effective Pfizer/Biontech vaccine, while the Oxford one will still get used, just for different groups then originally planned.

    As to your point in using cabin crew to vaccinate. Being trained in first aid isn't enough training to vaccinate people, you need extra training to do that.

    But it isn't really necessary now, the bottleneck continues to be manufacturing of the vaccines, not trained vaccinators. We have over 6,000 vaccinators, but we averaging about 7,000 vaccines a day. So as you can see, the issue isn't people, but the amount of vaccines we have.

    I'd expect vaccination rates to really pick up next month as the Oxford vaccine is distributed widely through GP's and pharmacies.

    In other good Vaccine news:

    - Pfizer opened their new factory in Germany and it has produced it's first doses. Pfizer has also partnered with Sanofi to use their factories to produce another 125 million doses.

    - The J&J vaccine, a single dose one, came out with very good looking results (better then Oxford, not as good as the mRNA ones) and looks like it will get EMA authorization in a couple of weeks.

    - The Novavox vaccine showed very good interim results, almost as good as the mRNA ones and that includes testing against both the UK variant and the South African one. They are expecting to finish their trial in a few weeks and get authorization soon after. The good news about this one was that it was tested against the new variants.


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    #3770
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    bk wrote: »
    As to your point in using cabin crew to vaccinate. Being trained in first aid isn't enough training to vaccinate people, you need extra training to do that.
    .

    Realistically how much training is really needed,?
    go walk through dublin 8 and there are plenty of lads and ladies who have plenty of experience with using needles who seem to manage fine...


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    #3771
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    kona wrote: »
    Realistically how much training is really needed,?
    go walk through dublin 8 and there are plenty of lads and ladies who have plenty of experience with using needles who seem to manage fine...

    Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

    Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

    Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

    And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.


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    #3772
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    bk wrote: »
    Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

    Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

    Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

    And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.

    You are talking with sense though and for that reason I don't see any of it happening despite the Gov paying these people to stay at home.


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    #3773
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    bk wrote: »
    Ughhh... In case you are serious, it is more to do with dealing with possible side effects, in particular anaphylactic shock.

    Anyway, as I mentioned, they simply aren't needed. Between GP's, nurses, pharmacists, school vaccinators and Ambulance crews / Firefighters, they have plenty of people to do it.

    Where they could perhaps use other people is simply around the organisation and administration, checking people in, taking details, filling in forms, etc. Free up the actual medical staff to focus on just the medical side.

    And contact tracers and possibly Covid testers. Some medical staff have been doing these jobs, they'll want to put them on the vaccination drive now and have others do those jobs instead.

    Im not serious about getting junkies to do it, but I am serious about how much they realistically need to be trained.
    Nurses and doctors are better deployed elsewhere.

    So in a vaccination centre would all of the people administering vaccines be trained in what to do with this shock or would there be designated people who would take over?

    I find the notion that you need to have a massive amount of training to administer what is a jab in the arm crazy in this particular situation.


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    #3774
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    kona wrote: »
    Im not serious about getting junkies to do it, but I am serious about how much they realistically need to be trained.
    Nurses and doctors are better deployed elsewhere.

    So in a vaccination centre would all of the people administering vaccines be trained in what to do with this shock or would there be designated people who would take over?

    I find the notion that you need to have a massive amount of training to administer what is a jab in the arm crazy in this particular situation.

    Being first aid trained does not mean you are medical professional or have the skills to vaccinate. To be clear, it would be illegal for them to vaccinate people.

    In order to vaccinate, you need to be trained to administer intramuscular injections and PHECC registered practitioner. There are about 5,500 people, mostly paramedics with Dublin Fire brigade and the National Ambulance service, but also volunteers in the likes of St John's Ambulance service and Physios.

    Of course these are in addition to Doctors, nurses and pharmacists.

    I honestly can't believe I'm having this conversation in an airline forum. I would hope most people in the airline industry would understand the need for proper training and certification. This suggestion is the equivalent of someone saying couldn't a 737 pilot just jump in the cockpit of a A350 and fly it without a type rating!

    If cabin crew are interested in helping out, fantastic, then they could volunteer with the likes of St John's Ambulance, Red Cross, etc. and get the required training and register with PHECC. I'm sure they would be delighted to get new volunteers with first aid training and the help would be greatly appreciated.

    But it is important that this is all done properly, we will have enough issues with anti-vaxxer folks without giving them ammo by having untrained and unregistered folks carrying out vaccinations!

    BTW as an aside, the fact that most fire fighters with Dublin Fire brigade are trained and experienced paramedics is a large and great resource to help out with this.

    But this conversation is all largely pointless as for now we have more people who can vaccinate, then we do vaccines.


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    #3775
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    As someone who is first aid trained I would guess that using my experience would be better employed monitoring those people who have just be3n vaccinated, compiling the paperwork and assisting the actual medical staff.

    But as stated above among all our resources we already have 1000s of trained people to actually administer the vaccines.


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    #3776
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,463 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Here is the training that a Pharmacist needs to get to do the Pfizer/Moderna vaccines in a vaccination center as part of a larger vaccination team (including Doctors, etc. to assist):

    https://www.thepsi.ie/tns/news/Coronavirus/InformationforPharmacistsCOVID.aspx

    It includes them having to do 5 separate training courses and that is for an experienced Pharmacist!


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    #3777
    kona
    Registered Users Posts: 7,525 ✭✭✭kona


    bk wrote: »
    I honestly can't believe I'm having this conversation in an airline forum. I would hope most people in the airline industry would understand the need for proper training and certification. This suggestion is the equivalent of someone saying couldn't a 737 pilot just jump in the cockpit of a A350 and fly it without a type rating!

    You would be very suprised at some aspects of aviation and approvals the 737max would be one example.
    My suggestion is not like saying a 737 pilot could jump into a a350 and fly it without a type. Its more like saying why cant a person who already has training, not be given a specific course to just administer vaccines.

    Doctors, nurses, firemen, paramedics all have better things to be doing than jabbing the entire population. Having a team of maybe 20 trained people overseen by a fully trained doctor to supervise and run a centre would be a better use of resources.


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    #3778
    donkey balls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    PHECC is the independent statuary body for pre hospital care, Akin to the nurses doctors bodies etc. It oversees the clinical training and examinations of EMT Paramedics and advance Paramedics.
    As one of the above I have being contacted about the roll out of the vaccination programme along with other medical personnel from other backgrounds(Midwife pharmacists &physio)
    Unfortunately no one below the grades above can administer an IM injection and must be currently registered with their practising body.


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    #3779
    Noxegon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,502 ✭✭✭Noxegon


    donkey balls wrote: »
    PHECC is the independent statuary body for pre hospital care.

    What a wonderful acronym.

    I develop Superior Solitaire when I'm not procrastinating on boards.ie.



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    #3780
    donkey balls
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭donkey balls


    Sure is when I first started training 10 years ago people said is the person who came up with the name a Father Ted fan, On a more serious note the e mail i received regarding the vaccinations are for the recruitment in the Greater Dublin area and surrounding counties.
    Hopefully they get the ball rolling and get people back to normality.


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    #3781
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,128 ✭✭✭plodder


    Kieran Cuddihy was talking to a furloughed airline pilot on "The hard shoulder" on Newstalk yesterday evening about the difficulties in keeping ratings current and how pilots are working other jobs to make ends meet etc. If anyone is interested, it's on their website.


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