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Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Some of those "facts" are a bit off such as VAT is 23%, 13.5% or 0% depending on the good or service with some industry specific rates. Anyway I thought you were going off to some utopia but it's Qatar. A country with slave labour and currently being blockaded by Saudi Arabia. Bloody hell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    And youll find plenty of bad things about whatever country you move to, just different bad things to here


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Been entertaining similar thoughts to the op not gonna lie.

    On the one hand Ireland is relatively liberal, the people are sound, you have amazing scenery right on your doorstep and really the weather isnt all that bad even though we all like to have a bit of a moan about it.

    On the other hand, rents in Dublin are eye watering to put it mildly, our taxes are basically pissed away and nothing really works public service wise.

    Look around though and what are the options. Germany maybe if your German is up to scratch. The UK which is swiftly turning into a bit of a racist hellhole but they do have Gregg's. France which seems to have a riot or a terrorist attack at an alarming frequency. America, erm the less said the better.

    Holland, Denmark or Sweden maybe?

    I get the sentiment but perhaps it could have been worded a bit better


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭dubrov


    theguzman wrote:
    Probably Qatar


    Great idea. Use slave labour to subsidise your taxes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    sightband wrote: »
    How many thanks were you expecting after all that effort and attempted wit?

    More than I got.


    You would’ve been just as well off with all the “bye” “bye now” “nice knowing you “ muck.


    Thanks for the tip

    Massive divide here, wouldn’t blame anyone for leaving. Income tax figures seem a bit off though, maybe recalculate and reevaluate

    After Hours is not the place for serious advice lighting up a bit.:p

    zl68no_th.png


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    dubrov wrote: »
    Great idea. Use slave labour to subsidise your taxes.


    Qatar is just one of the low tax regimes I am thinking of, The US is also very appealing depending on which state I'd go to. I don't know how anyone could defend what is happening in Ireland unless you were a Civil Servant on a cushy job with a pension. I know lads who stay in bed all day, drink a few cans or smoke a bit of weed, they have nothing to their name and contribute nothing to society only draw down from the system, before they would anger me but as every day passes I admire them more for being able to give two fingers to the taxman.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,842 ✭✭✭Don't Chute!


    Great! One less gob****e in the country. Only a couple of hundred thousand more to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,055 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    theguzman wrote: »
    Qatar is just one of the low tax regimes I am thinking of, The US is also very appealing depending on which state I'd go to. I don't know how anyone could defend what is happening in Ireland unless you were a Civil Servant on a cushy job with a pension. I know lads who stay in bed all day, drink a few cans or smoke a bit of weed, they have nothing to their name and contribute nothing to society only draw down from the system, before they would anger me but as every day passes I admire them more for being able to give two fingers to the taxman.

    You sound like a multinational. Picking where you live based on the local tax situation is a bit odd really.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,280 ✭✭✭✭M.T. Cranium


    Canada is great for low taxes.

    Not really, I was just testing whether or not I could make the sun go dark.

    But just for sake of comparison, we pay a goods and service tax of 5% on most consumer goods. Provinces have additional sales taxes in some cases. Our income tax rates seem about similar to yours. There is no inheritance tax (edit, some parts may be taxed as income, but it's not a straight percentage tax on inheritance). Our "petrol" prices are not as high although taxes added may be almost as much.

    In most of our larger cities, the weather may be colder for a few months but generally speaking warmer from April to September with perhaps a bit more sunshine. So it would be a tolerable trade-off if you didn't mind the winters being much colder (a bit colder in the case of Vancouver).

    Health care costs here are not terribly high and the service is not terribly bad. I could imagine it being better but I know it's worse in the UK and (for cost) in the USA. Going by what you say in Ireland.

    Electricity rates vary a lot from province to province, I've heard people in Ontario saying they are being gouged, it is a bit steep here in BC but affordable, and cheaper in some other parts.

    I can imagine improvements to our tax system in Canada but I imagine it seems not too bad to outside observers.

    As to what we get for our taxes, this tends to be less of a complaint among Canadians, but a lot of our government services are provided by provinces rather than the federal government, which means a bit more control through the electoral process. I don't think I am receiving very much back for any federal taxes that I pay, but it's comforting to think we have a military who can surrender in an orderly fashion if any actual military power invades us. That takes the burden off my shoulders.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,358 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    So where/when is the leaving party and are you inviting us, in some sort of indirect way?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Sugar Free


    OP I agree with some of your sentiment but I'd urge you to consider all aspects of life in the country you move to. For example, I live in a country considered to be low tax versus Ireland. I can take public transport with no restrictions covering about a fifth of the country for ~70e a month. In many circumstances I can sell assets without paying any CGT. I can pass on and inherit assets tax free (varies by state) to/from immediate family with no upper threshold.

    However, you have to pay mandatory health insurance premiums, which for most people are 200-300e per month regardless of whether you need to avail of any healthcare. And you still have a deductible you need to reach before you can claim anything back. It is extremely rare for employers to cover this unlike in Ireland where every global company worth it's salt gives you a good policy.

    You also have to pay a wealth tax when your net wealth is >70,000e (varies by state). Renting in the principal city makes Dublin rent look like postively good value and purchasing property suitable as a family home within 10km of said city centre is unattainable for almost everyone who isn't in investment banking or pharma. The cost of 5 days a week childcare is ~2200E a month. Per child. No discounts.

    So my point is be careful what you wish for! Ireland's income and CGT/CAT system is a bit dysfunctional but most countries that weren't built in the middle of a desert will find other ways to get you, even if their taxation looks great from the outside looking in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    Living standards are plummeting. Year in year out, the cost of living is exceeding inflation and wage increases. Year in year out, governments are nipping away at your money through stealth taxes and mandatory expenses.

    And more is on its way. Minimum Pricing of Alcohol, mandatory health insurance, can/bottle deposit schemes, television/media license, congestion charges, road tolls, public transport fare increases, they are all on the way. We won't be doing much L-I-V-I-N-G. No country for young men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    ireland isnt just dublin. there are other counties out there if people only opened their eyes/a map.
    yes we have taxes. yes rents are silly bugger amounts. but other countries have taxes, high rents, eeven crap weather at times.

    ireland needs lots of improvements, a new proper health system. decent politicians/gardai/etc and the chances of any of that happening are nil, but most people are ok and the scenery is good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭Sebastian Dangerfield


    5 years ago when I had no responsibilities there wouldnt have been any argument in the world that would make me even consider leaving Ireland. Now with 2 small kids, I would probably consider somewhere like Canada if the offer presented itself.

    We bring in more money than I ever expected to earn and yet never seem to be able to get ahead. Stating that to anyone seems to be met with "sure arent there people worse off than you" - which is true of course, but is that now the standard we should all work towards?

    We made the choice to buy a house and to have kids knowing theyd have to go into creche, no one forced us - but to me they are pretty basic choices that shouldnt be this hard to maintain from a financial / quality of life perspective. I dont see that changing any time soon, and having recently written to my TD and gotten a response Im surer that it wont. Irish politics seems to be forever limited to short term reactive measures.

    So while I wont be rushing to book a flight, I get where the OP is coming from.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭sjb25


    theguzman wrote: »
    I have decided to pack my bags in 2019 and leave Ireland, hopefully permanently.

    The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground. There is no incentive to do anything properly in the way I would like to do it.

    Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

    Some quick facts below

    VAT is 23%

    Income tax is 20% on the first €43,550, 40% on earnings above this.

    Mineral Oil Tax on Petrol is 54.1% plus Carbon Tax of 4.5% + VAT @ 23%
    Mineral Oil Tax on Diesel is 42.5% plus Carbon Tax of 5.3% + VAT @ 23%

    Stamp Duty is 1% of Purchase Price on purchase of a home on the first 1 million, 2% after first million.

    Stamp Duty is 6% on all non Residential Property, e.g. Farmland or Commerical Property.

    Universal Service Charge

    Rate Income Band
    0.5% Up to €12,012
    2.5% From €12,012.01 to €19,372.00
    4.75% From €19,372.01 to €70,044.00
    8% From €70,044.01 to €100,000.00
    8% Any PAYE income over €100,000
    11% Non-PAYE (Self-employed) income over €100,000

    Local Property Tax if you own your own home varies with most people having €300 to €600 of a levy to pay, depending on the value of your home.

    Vehicle Registration Tax variesbut generates billions for the state each year on new and second hand cars imported from the UK.

    CAT Inheritance tax is 33% So imagine you go through life and pay all these taxes and maybe save money and then you reach a point where you want to hand it over to your children or appointed heir, the state will then come along and take 33% of it off you, this is money which was prevsiouly taxed already.

    There is many many more taxes which I haven't mentioned but the effective rate of tax is 80% and then you see people effectively working themselves into an early grave, busting their guts to keep the country moving for what?

    With these levels of taxation you'd imagine we'd be living in a Socialist utopia,

    Instead we have a total disgrace of a Health care system which exists as a dumping ground for the failed careers of Administrators. Nurses and Doctors who work here must be masochists to tolerate such a disaster.

    Social Housing, there is thousands homeless, I don't care what their status or immigration documentations state, once again the money is there to fix this. If any of us drones who are paying these huge taxes fall on hard times the safety net is not there.

    Public Transport, it might aswell not exist and where it does it is vastly over-priced.

    Justice and Policing, neither exist other than to enforce these brutal taxation regimes, don't pay your taxes and you will likely spend longer in prison than a career thief or murderer. Rotating doors makes Ireland a criminals paradise.


    Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels and developing country levels of public services.

    Taxation is theft because you pay for nothing other than lies from corrupt politicians.

    Why would a person bother working, you are better to draw welfare and have nothing to your name and just enjoy life because work does not pay in Ireland. I don't loathe these people, as a matter of fact I envy them. Why bother trying to do the right thing in Ireland when the Govt will tax it and take it away from you. Why bother respecting any law because you will not be punished.
    ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    It does seem that our recent growth rate hasn’t really helped the average joe. Of course we still have a major debt overhang.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    Just wait until we get "culturally enriched" with Leo's 2040 plan to raise the population by 1 million.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    I never get why people oppose inheritance taxes. You could set a limit to only catch the top 30% but without them all countries become feudal oligarchies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,803 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    If the op is honest, wherever he or she ends up, they will say "you know Ireland isn't as bad as I thought it was".

    There is no utopia. Some places do things better than others. It's the way of the world.

    I have seen holland, Sweden, Germany, Norway mentioned in this thread. That's all well and good, but there's a language to be learned for the op, and in plenty of other countries. Not everyone can manage to learn languages easily. And if you don't, it'll be very difficult to get yourself a good job.

    And then there's the job itself. Are you going to walk into a well paying career in a foreign country just like that? I doubt it.

    And don't forget many countries don't just want any Tom, Dick and Harry walking into their country. Many won't let you.

    Good luck anyway op, keep us updated with your new wonderful life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭Stan27


    I moved to Australia in 2017. Great country but I’ll always move home to Ireland


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  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭Thestones


    5 years ago when I had no responsibilities there wouldnt have been any argument in the world that would make me even consider leaving Ireland. Now with 2 small kids, I would probably consider somewhere like Canada if the offer presented itself.

    We bring in more money than I ever expected to earn and yet never seem to be able to get ahead. Stating that to anyone seems to be met with "sure arent there people worse off than you" - which is true of course, but is that now the standard we should all work towards?

    We made the choice to buy a house and to have kids knowing theyd have to go into creche, no one forced us - but to me they are pretty basic choices that shouldnt be this hard to maintain from a financial / quality of life perspective. I dont see that changing any time soon, and having recently written to my TD and gotten a response Im surer that it wont. Irish politics seems to be forever limited to short term reactive measures.

    So while I wont be rushing to book a flight, I get where the OP is coming from.

    Yep agree with you. I've two kids and I stay at home so a bit different to your crèche situation but my husband earns a good salary, we don't have childcare costs and our mortgage is low but we still never have any money left at the end of month, taxes in this country are crippling! If something miscellaneous pops up we don't have spare funds for it. Politicians don't live in the real world with their highly inflated salaries and expenses, they just don't get it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,803 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Stan27 wrote: »
    I moved to Australia in 2017. Great country but I’ll always move home to Ireland

    But I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could provide us with a list of negatives about Australia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    You could go North.

    North Sentinel Island

    6%20North%20Sentinel%20Island%20Andaman%20Islands.jpg

    No tax there whatsoever and an idyllic unspoiled environment.

    Yeah, but they are border control 2018 champions.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Mrcaramelchoc


    You'll be back they always come back.the grass is always greener.you'll be back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    Cannot find fault with any of the comments the op makes..especially the long term unemployed wasters who regularly draw down from the system even though we're now led to believe that were nearly running at 100%employment and will again need to start looking for employees from overseas to fill certain roles..why not either make these longterm unemployed people take up jobs and contribute to society or else cut off all state benefits .maybe let them in their state payed accommodation hate to see them homeless....they might cry discrimination.. as a nation yes were far too quiet..while lots work were far too chicken to protest about daylight crime..and sure we couldn't expect the politicians to comment negatively about any minority cheats..
    Unfortunately yes I agree with everything op says either move out or stay quiet and work on.. but I don't agree with the comment about the irish being sound.. I'd feel much more in danger strolling round any irish city compared to France or Germany ..we've turned into a European Capitol sh.. hole big time and unfortunately many that give it this title are natives..


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Your "facts" are a bit off.

    On VRT the state doesn't make "billions" every year. Last years VRT was the highest take in 10 years and was still about 800 million. 5 Years ago it was only 300 million.

    Also you're deliberately misrepresenting inheritance tax. It's true that a person can spend their lives working, earning and paying tax on money/assets/property etc. and may want to pass it on to their children.

    But it's not the giver who gets the inheritance tax bill, it's the receiver. So nobody pays tax twice on the same thing. The giver pays tax once, and the receiver pays tax once. This "you're paying tax on something you already paid tax on" is boll*x.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    I wouldn't mind moving to a European city such as Berlin, but Im way too lazy to learn a language other than English.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Living standards are plummeting. Year in year out, the cost of living is exceeding inflation and wage increases.

    Are they really though, overall?

    For some people, you are probably right, but for many in the lower or subsidised income brackets, living standards have improved greatly. We live in a more equal society than years gone by. Which does mean standards have fallen for some, but that is a good thing, and a price worth paying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    theguzman wrote:
    Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels

    No it doesn't by a long shot. Moaning about taxes and yet the taxes are lower here than other European countries. Sweden has a 56% top marginal tax rate, Denmark is 60%. Belgium is 50%(plus a muncipal 7%), Netherlands is about 52% and don't try to own property or a car in the Netherlands, you'll be quickly crying to come back to Ireland in that case!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭orourkeda1977


    theguzman wrote: »
    I have decided to pack my bags in 2019 and leave Ireland, hopefully permanently.

    The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground. There is no incentive to do anything properly in the way I would like to do it.

    Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

    Some quick facts below

    VAT is 23%

    Income tax is 20% on the first €43,550, 40% on earnings above this.

    Mineral Oil Tax on Petrol is 54.1% plus Carbon Tax of 4.5% + VAT @ 23%
    Mineral Oil Tax on Diesel is 42.5% plus Carbon Tax of 5.3% + VAT @ 23%

    Stamp Duty is 1% of Purchase Price on purchase of a home on the first 1 million, 2% after first million.

    Stamp Duty is 6% on all non Residential Property, e.g. Farmland or Commerical Property.

    Universal Service Charge

    Rate Income Band
    0.5% Up to €12,012
    2.5% From €12,012.01 to €19,372.00
    4.75% From €19,372.01 to €70,044.00
    8% From €70,044.01 to €100,000.00
    8% Any PAYE income over €100,000
    11% Non-PAYE (Self-employed) income over €100,000

    Local Property Tax if you own your own home varies with most people having €300 to €600 of a levy to pay, depending on the value of your home.

    Vehicle Registration Tax variesbut generates billions for the state each year on new and second hand cars imported from the UK.

    CAT Inheritance tax is 33% So imagine you go through life and pay all these taxes and maybe save money and then you reach a point where you want to hand it over to your children or appointed heir, the state will then come along and take 33% of it off you, this is money which was prevsiouly taxed already.

    There is many many more taxes which I haven't mentioned but the effective rate of tax is 80% and then you see people effectively working themselves into an early grave, busting their guts to keep the country moving for what?

    With these levels of taxation you'd imagine we'd be living in a Socialist utopia,

    Instead we have a total disgrace of a Health care system which exists as a dumping ground for the failed careers of Administrators. Nurses and Doctors who work here must be masochists to tolerate such a disaster.

    Social Housing, there is thousands homeless, I don't care what their status or immigration documentations state, once again the money is there to fix this. If any of us drones who are paying these huge taxes fall on hard times the safety net is not there.

    Public Transport, it might aswell not exist and where it does it is vastly over-priced.

    Justice and Policing, neither exist other than to enforce these brutal taxation regimes, don't pay your taxes and you will likely spend longer in prison than a career thief or murderer. Rotating doors makes Ireland a criminals paradise.


    Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels and developing country levels of public services.

    Taxation is theft because you pay for nothing other than lies from corrupt politicians.

    Why would a person bother working, you are better to draw welfare and have nothing to your name and just enjoy life because work does not pay in Ireland. I don't loathe these people, as a matter of fact I envy them. Why bother trying to do the right thing in Ireland when the Govt will tax it and take it away from you. Why bother respecting any law because you will not be punished.

    See ya.

    You'll soon find that the grass is never greener on the other side.

    Youre just going to have to learn that lesson the hard way


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