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Leinster Schools Rugby 2012-2013 [Provincial Schools Thread Link in Post 1]

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,832 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Yes-and there are some players whose talent outshines the fact that they arent as physically developed as they would be if they were a year or two older. Leavy played Irish Schools this year. Now he is in the academy. He is not an especially bulky guy for his age. The most important thing is that he has talent. And Name me one player who is in the academy who isn't exceptional?

    I think you are getting confused between being exceptional in general (which I would say they all are) and exceptional in a given year (ie the very top of a school leaving group – the way I meant it). To be honest you seem of the opinion that going straight in from school is the be all and end all which is disservice to those who are in the academy but didn’t go straight in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    I think you are getting confused between being exceptional in general (which I would say they all are) and exceptional in a given year (ie the very top of a school leaving group – the way I meant it). To be honest you seem of the opinion that going straight in from school is the be all and end all which is disservice to those who are in the academy but didn’t go straight in.[/QUOTE

    No not saying that at all. I am saying is that just because you aren't massively physically developed, haven't played in the AIL or Irish U20 team, doesn't mean you can't go straight into the academy straight from school. My view is that the younger they get guys in the better. Physical development or lack thereof should not be an impediment.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    ormond lad wrote: »
    Surely it should be the other way round and the better technically proficient player should make it. The bulk can be added in time so the technically better player should be added to the academy while the technically proficient player is left to develop outside the full academy system.
    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Yes-and there are some players whose talent outshines the fact that they arent as physically developed as they would be if they were a year or two older. Leavy played Irish Schools this year. Now he is in the academy. He is not an especially bulky guy for his age. The most important thing is that he has talent. And name me one player who is in the academy who isn't exceptional? That's what the academy is there for-to further develop players who have the most raw talent and because they play a position that Leinster feel they may need reinforcing in the future. They are not picked because they are the most physically developed. In that case-why isn't Peter Robb in the academy?


    I agree with you both entirely you have right idea towards development of young players in the country


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    Haha, jeez. Once again, when I said physically developed, I did not mean gym wise. I meant naturally/genetically. In the same way that North/Ferris/SBW/Pocock are big specimens. Sure the gym takes some credit for their size, but a lot of it is down to them just being genetically big guys. I do not advocate picking big guys over talented guys either though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭Wexfordboy89


    just wondering who are the ones to watch player wise.who could be the next big thing in irish rugby(dont know much about schools rugby)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,832 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    No not saying that at all. I am saying is that just because you aren't massively physically developed, haven't played in the AIL or Irish U20 team, doesn't mean you can't go straight into the academy straight from school. My view is that the younger they get guys in the better. Physical development or lack thereof should not be an impediment.

    Ok, I'm not quite sure if you are not reading my posts properly or are just arguing for the sake of it. I have never said that a player needs to be massively physically developed, played in the AIL or the Irish U20s to get into the academy or that they can't go straight in straight from school.

    Given the finite number of spaces to get into the academy on a marginally call who would you select out of two players who are the same age, at comparable skill levels but one is straight out of school and the other has been in the sub-academy for a year, played regular AIL and is more physically developed?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Foxtrol wrote: »

    Given the finite number of spaces to get into the academy on a marginally call who would you select out of two players who are the same age, at comparable skill levels but one is straight out of school and the other has been in the sub-academy for a year, played regular AIL and is more physically developed?

    Yes of course if they have have comparable skill level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,832 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Yes of course if they have have comparable skill level.

    Well we're in agreement then.

    I think some posters are dying to have an argument with someone who thinks bigger is more important than being skilful but unfortunately no one here has actually made that statement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭Fight_Night


    just wondering who are the ones to watch player wise.who could be the next big thing in irish rugby(dont know much about schools rugby)

    From Michaels in terms of 6th years it's Kelleher(not sure what position he'll play, played wing last year), Ross Byrne(outhalf), McCarthy(scrumhalf), Murphy(backrow), Moloney(2nd row). Ross Byrne probably the most likely to make it in the future. Potential for all of them though.

    Terenure I'm sure Quint can fill you in on them, don't know much but Brewer, Dardis and O Neil are the top players I think.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Jacob Walshe has just joined Roscrea this year for 6th year and has already played Connacht A,loosehead. As well as him they have Sean O'Brien 2ndrow/back row,captained Connacht 20s this year.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Oldboy 92


    6dsp9 wrote: »
    Jacob Walshe has just joined Roscrea this year for 6th year and has already played Connacht A,loosehead. As well as him they have Sean O'Brien 2ndrow/back row,captained Connacht 20s this year.

    Does that mean he is ineligible to play schools cup, I assume 20s is deemed adult rugby and Connacht A definitely is! Can anyone throw some light on this, has it happened before?


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭gfitz95


    Michaels play clongowes on saturday,in clongowes though,do clongowes have any exceptional players this year?or have they hit a dry spell at last?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭its_phil


    Oldboy 92 wrote: »

    Does that mean he is ineligible to play schools cup, I assume 20s is deemed adult rugby and Connacht A definitely is! Can anyone throw some light on this, has it happened before?

    But 20's is underage rugby??

    Robbie Henshaw played Connacht 20s last year and played for Marist so that is not a problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    gfitz95 wrote: »
    Michaels play clongowes on saturday,in clongowes though,do clongowes have any exceptional players this year?or have they hit a dry spell at last?

    Never write off Clongowes. They may not have the stellar names of the past 3 seasons but they are always exceptionally well trained and never let their school down when it comes to cup time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Oldboy 92 wrote: »
    Does that mean he is ineligible to play schools cup, I assume 20s is deemed adult rugby and Connacht A definitely is! Can anyone throw some light on this, has it happened before?
    Dont think he is inelgible to play schools cup as i dont see how he has been ruled out.
    its_phil wrote: »
    But 20's is underage rugby??

    Robbie Henshaw played Connacht 20s last year and played for Marist so that is not a problem.
    20s is age grade rugby
    Im fairly sure u18s/19s have to get permission from their provincial branch to play 20s
    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Never write off Clongowes. They may not have the stellar names of the past 3 seasons but they are always exceptionally well trained and never let their school down when it comes to cup time.
    I wouldnt write them off either.
    I know this goes without saying but all the schools are exceptionally well trained and never let their school down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Oldboy 92


    its_phil wrote: »
    But 20's is underage rugby??

    Robbie Henshaw played Connacht 20s last year and played for Marist so that is not a problem.
    Age grade is u19 down as far as I know so it may vary from province to province, but if that player played an A game for Connacht it was an adult fixture.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Oldboy 92 wrote: »
    Age grade is u19 down as far as I know so it may vary from province to province, but if that player played an A game for Connacht it was an adult fixture.
    20s is age grade rugby and 21s is age grade but they do not come under the categories of youths/schools rugby

    The draws for the Leinster Schools Duff and McMullen Cup competitions took place in the Leinster Rugby office in UCD on Thursday afternoon...
    http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/newsroom/10504.php

    Duff and McMullen Cups are the cups for the section A schools


  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Leinster5


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Terenure have Schmidt, Brewer, Dardis, Madigan (all Leinster u18 players-Madigan from 2011) O'Neill and Clarkin(injured last year-both Leinster U19 players) plus Tom O'Brien and Conor Weakliam all back from last year. I haven't seen 'Michaels backline but would have to be a very good one to come anywhere near Terenure's one. By the sounds of things 'Michaels have a very strong pack and this is where Terenure may struggle if they face them in the cup.

    Well surely Byrne for Michaels is the best 10 in the competition, was a class act last year for Michaels. Along with McCarthy and Leavy. They also have Kelleher who is almost a certainty for Academy next year. Terenure do have a very impressive back-line, but from what I've been told, Michaels are just as strong in the back-line and are supposedly much stronger in the pack.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Leinster5 wrote: »
    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Terenure have Schmidt, Brewer, Dardis, Madigan (all Leinster u18 players-Madigan from 2011) O'Neill and Clarkin(injured last year-both Leinster U19 players) plus Tom O'Brien and Conor Weakliam all back from last year. I haven't seen 'Michaels backline but would have to be a very good one to come anywhere near Terenure's one. By the sounds of things 'Michaels have a very strong pack and this is where Terenure may struggle if they face them in the cup.

    Well surely Byrne for Michaels is the best 10 in the competition, was a class act last year for Michaels. Along with McCarthy and Leavy. They also have Kelleher who is almost a certainty for Academy next year. Terenure do have a very impressive back-line, but from what I've been told, Michaels are just as strong in the back-line and are supposedly much stronger in the pack.


    I wouldn't be too quick to say that Byrne is the best 10 going,I'd an eye each on him and McKeon from Gonzaga


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Leinster5 wrote: »
    Well surely Byrne for Michaels is the best 10 in the competition, was a class act last year for Michaels. Along with McCarthy and Leavy. They also have Kelleher who is almost a certainty for Academy next year. Terenure do have a very impressive back-line, but from what I've been told, Michaels are just as strong in the back-line and are supposedly much stronger in the pack.

    OK 'Michaels have a much better pack and a better backline then Terenure. I just hope 'Michaels have the same mindset as when they played Terenure in the 2010 Junior Cup Final.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    OK 'Michaels have a much better pack and a better backline then Terenure. I just hope 'Michaels have the same mindset as when they played Terenure in the 2010 Junior Cup Final.

    snap


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭gfitz95


    Well surely Byrne for Michaels is the best 10 in the competition, was a class act last year for Michaels. Along with McCarthy and Leavy. They also have Kelleher who is almost a certainty for Academy next year. Terenure do have a very impressive back-line, but from what I've been told, Michaels are just as strong in the back-line and are supposedly much stronger in the pack.[/QUOTE]

    Leavy is actually a player who has gone under the radar but is an exceptional talent,plays in the outside backs,brings the same aggression levels as his brother aswell,not quite as big as Dan but no squirt either


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭6dsp9


    gfitz95 wrote: »
    Well surely Byrne for Michaels is the best 10 in the competition, was a class act last year for Michaels. Along with McCarthy and Leavy. They also have Kelleher who is almost a certainty for Academy next year. Terenure do have a very impressive back-line, but from what I've been told, Michaels are just as strong in the back-line and are supposedly much stronger in the pack.

    Leavy is actually a player who has gone under the radar but is an exceptional talent,plays in the outside backs,brings the same aggression levels as his brother aswell,not quite as big as Dan but no squirt either[/QUOTE]


    he was injured for the interpros I'm pretty sure,other than that Id say he would've started? Yeah he's a unit all right


  • Registered Users Posts: 93 ✭✭gfitz95


    he was injured for the interpros I'm pretty sure,other than that Id say he would've started? Yeah he's a unit all right[/QUOTE]

    not sure of his Leinster involvement but he started for Michaels on the wing last year for the first 3 rounds of the cup


  • Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Leinster5


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    OK 'Michaels have a much better pack and a better backline then Terenure. I just hope 'Michaels have the same mindset as when they played Terenure in the 2010 Junior Cup Final.
    I can't believe people still think Junior Cup rugby gives a good indication of Senior level. It's a bunch of 14/15 year old's running around. It's a completely different standard at Senior level, you get ex-pro's coaching most of the 'big' schools. I'm not an expert on this years competition, but I know enough to know that Junior Cup results mean very little 3 years later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Leinster5 wrote: »
    I can't believe people still think Junior Cup rugby gives a good indication of Senior level. It's a bunch of 14/15 year old's running around. It's a completely different standard at Senior level, you get ex-pro's coaching most of the 'big' schools. I'm not an expert on this years competition, but I know enough to know that Junior Cup results mean very little 3 years later.

    Well I think it was hugely relevant to last years final the fact that 'Michaels had beaten Clongowes in the Junior Cup in 2009.


  • Registered Users Posts: 388 ✭✭TheKeenMachine


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Well I think it was hugely relevant to last years final the fact that 'Michaels had beaten Clongowes in the Junior Cup in 2009.

    Really? I thought Michaels lost four finals on the bounce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38 Oldboy 92


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Well I think it was hugely relevant to last years final the fact that 'Michaels had beaten Clongowes in the Junior Cup in 2009.
    And Clongowes won JCT in 2008 and SCT in 2011. Terenure won JCT 2009 and only beaten by 1 pt in SF last year!!! No devine right to win JCT and then SCT 3 years later but it is reasonable to say they will be contenders when SCT. The change of eligibility for 4th years will undoubtably make JCT in bigger schools stronger, but 3 years later the prsummed better players will have left school.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,257 ✭✭✭Hagz


    I remember my year won the JCT and when the SCT rolled around the team looked completely different. But it might be different in schools with a smaller year group.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    Really? I thought Michaels lost four finals on the bounce.

    They beat Clongowes in the quarter finals but then lost to Terenure in the final 5-3. But the fact they had beaten Clongowes in 2009 gave them a mental edge in the final last year IMO


This discussion has been closed.
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