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How do single people buy homes?

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Comments

  • #152
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    Average earnings are generally accepted to be a poor metric for measuring the income of 'typical' people as very high earners skew the numbers quite a bit, as the CSO itself has noted.As an example, this article estimates 2017 median earnings to be about €29,740. Wages in the €20k range are very far from atypical.


  • #153
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Median earnings are lower than the mean, yes.

    https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-eaads/earningsanalysisusingadministrativedatasources2018/

    2018 median = 592.60 pw for employees, not all workers

    31k pa


  • #154
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Geuze wrote: »
    Average full-time earnings in 2019 were 49k.

    Average earnings for mortgage applicants are higher than 49k.


    Mortgage applicants


    https://centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/household-credit-market-report/household-credit-market-report-2019.pdf?sfvrsn=6

    See table 1, about new loans 2019:

    average incomes for FTB in Dublin = 89k

    FTB outside Dublin = 68.5k


  • #155
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    The basic options are

    1) don't buy in Dublin or anywhere with reliable public transport to dublin
    2) buy a shoebox apartment in a not fantastic area of Dublin

    with a usual healthy dose of : cut out basically all unnecessary spending
    and an unhealthy dose of : go live with your parents or just inherit a load of money.


  • #156
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Geuze wrote: »
    Mortgage applicants


    https://centralbank.ie/docs/default-source/publications/household-credit-market-report/household-credit-market-report-2019.pdf?sfvrsn=6

    See table 1, about new loans 2019:

    average incomes for FTB in Dublin = 89k

    FTB outside Dublin = 68.5k

    thats likely joint applicants, so 44.5k average per person


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  • #157
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Well I'd say it's a mix of single and joint applicants.


    https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures/new-mortgage-lending-data-and-commentary


    See the Excel files.

    73% are joint applicants.


  • #158
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    frillyleaf wrote: »
    Yes this is definitely a hurdle for me. Even looking at very small houses in the area I can’t afford them with the 3.5 times salary on a single income household. Even on an average income the smallest and oldest houses in my area are out of reach. To move down the country would be very isolating, lonely and will have no support network at all.

    Very few people can afford to buy in the area they grew up in - they have to move away and cut their cloth to what they can afford or stay renting and have the kind of appartment/house they could not afford to save to buy. No doubt you could start or create new support networks in a new plce - that is what others do.


  • #159
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Geuze wrote: »
    Well I'd say it's a mix of single and joint applicants.


    https://www.centralbank.ie/financial-system/financial-stability/macro-prudential-policy/mortgage-measures/new-mortgage-lending-data-and-commentary


    See the Excel files.

    73% are joint applicants.

    Interesting data, almost half the mortgages are to the 3.5 LTI ratio, 60% of loans are just below it or exempt above it. Half of loans are in the 89-90% LTV bracket too.

    If there was ever a more appropriate document to express why we absolutely need the central bank rules....

    Most people are putting themselves under the absolute maximum millstone they can.


  • #160
    chunkylover4
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭chunkylover4


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Interesting data, almost half the mortgages are to the 3.5 LTI ratio, 60% of loans are just below it or exempt above it. Half of loans are in the 89-90% LTV bracket too.

    If there was ever a more appropriate document to express why we absolutely need the central bank rules....

    Most people are putting themselves under the absolute maximum millstone they can.

    That's unlikely to be by choice but rather dictated by price! Lots of variables will effect the minimum requirements for a house of a certain value such as location of work, number of children, responsibility for relatives etc.


  • #161
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,298 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Interesting data, almost half the mortgages are to the 3.5 LTI ratio, 60% of loans are just below it or exempt above it. Half of loans are in the 89-90% LTV bracket too.

    If there was ever a more appropriate document to express why we absolutely need the central bank rules....

    Most people are putting themselves under the absolute maximum millstone they can.


    As a single person when I bought my current place, I had neither 3.5LTI nor 90% LTV (actually about 1.8 LTI and 85% LTV).


    Now we are looking to move and , with 2 of us, we are looking again at around 2 LTI and 80% LTV as STBs.


    No point putting a millstone on your neck. Actually, there is, when the taxpayers have to pick up the tab if you dont pay!


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  • #162
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    chunkylover4 wrote: »
    That's unlikely to be by choice but rather dictated by price! Lots of variables will effect the minimum requirements for a house of a certain value such as location of work, number of children, responsibility for relatives etc.

    correct , but without the central bank rules, those prices would be higher and people would be taking bigger millstones. Its made it very clear that the 3.5x LTI and 90% LTV are the only things keeping a lid on the market and peoples own insanity.


  • #163
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,298 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    correct , but without the central bank rules, those prices would be higher and people would be taking bigger millstones.
    Like in '08 and before, I saw ads for 100% mortgages and it was relatively common to get 4X,5X + in LTI


  • #164
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Like in '08 and before, I saw ads for 100% mortgages and it was relatively common to get 4X,5X + in LTI

    In summer 2008 I was 18, in a job 2 months , on 32k a year and remember going in to the bank looking for a 500 euro credit card so I could start building a credit rating.

    While there the mortgage advisor offered me a 102% mortgage "you'll have AIP by the morning" for 190k , no money down with the 2% back in cash after 30 days to buy furniture etc..

    I could tell this was a terrible idea even at 18. I suspect many weren't as clued in.


  • #165
    lickalot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 85 ✭✭lickalot


    Very easily outside Dublin.

    I have a house and on 45K. Paid 150 for it.

    Friend of mine on 37K bought an apartment for 140K.

    I could probably get an extra 20K if I moved to Dublin but couldn't be bothered moving back to that hole.


  • #166
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    In summer 2008 .................
    While there the mortgage advisor offered me a 102% mortgage "you'll have AIP by the morning" for 190k , no money down with the 2% back in cash after 30 days to buy furniture etc.. .............

    Summer 2008 was quite grim economically........ I'm surprised 6 times income and 100% mortgages were being offered tbh.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/property-sales-slump-by-17bn-in-2008-81882.html

    Auctioneers in Leinster reported a massive 32% of jobs lost in their businesses, while in Munster 25% lost their jobs in 2008, with forecasts of further losses in 2009, from 3% in Leinster, to 19% in Connaught.

    Dublin’s auction scene slumped to just 127 sales in 2008, down from 1,500 sales via public auction in 2006.


  • #167
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,298 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Augeo wrote: »
    Summer 2008 was quite grim economically........ I'm surprised 6 times income and 100% mortgages were being offered tbh.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/property-sales-slump-by-17bn-in-2008-81882.html

    Auctioneers in Leinster reported a massive 32% of jobs lost in their businesses, while in Munster 25% lost their jobs in 2008, with forecasts of further losses in 2009, from 3% in Leinster, to 19% in Connaught.

    Dublin’s auction scene slumped to just 127 sales in 2008, down from 1,500 sales via public auction in 2006.
    Summer 08 was just before sh1t really started hitting the fan. I lost my job in December 08.


  • #168
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Augeo wrote: »
    Summer 2008 was quite grim economically........ I'm surprised 6 times income and 100% mortgages were being offered tbh.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/property-sales-slump-by-17bn-in-2008-81882.html

    Auctioneers in Leinster reported a massive 32% of jobs lost in their businesses, while in Munster 25% lost their jobs in 2008, with forecasts of further losses in 2009, from 3% in Leinster, to 19% in Connaught.

    Dublin’s auction scene slumped to just 127 sales in 2008, down from 1,500 sales via public auction in 2006.

    by summer I could mean anywhere from march onwards it was definitely the last push before the entire world caved itself in.


  • #169
    Hooked
    Registered Users Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Augeo wrote: »
    Summer 2008 was quite grim economically........ I'm surprised 6 times income and 100% mortgages were being offered tbh.

    Right when I bought (as a single man)... Talk about paying over the odds! Roughly 6 times my (fairly modest) salary too...

    However, 12 years on... managed to stay employed (and having grabbed the last of the tracker mortgages) we are finding it incredibly comfortable with my now wife (decent salary), no kids - and both of us having very VERY small commutes to work... approx 2km.

    I' feel incredibly grateful EVERY DAY that we have a great quality of life, despite the mortgage and house price seeming a terrible choice merely 10 years ago!


  • #170
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    In answer to the OP, in Dublin at least we just... Don't. The 3.5x cap would shut most single would-be buyers at the get-go from most sites in the commuter zone, never mind a minimally livable home. Pay increases cancelled and second recession of my career looming. Nothing to cut back on, tied to a job and thus rent here, parents not in a position to cover the deposit etc.

    The housing market just isn't geared towards us - studios don't really exist anymore and if you can squeeze more bedrooms into the same footprint and charge expontially more, why wouldn't you?

    I'm saving to nowhere as the goalposts gallop off, and coming up on aging out of the possibility of a 30 year mortgage. Pretty grim.


  • #171
    Jet Black
    Registered Users Posts: 3,841 ✭✭✭Jet Black


    Best way to do it is reduce your costs to as close to zero as possible. Make a plan and stick to it. It could take 2 years, it could be 5.
    Rent is usually the biggest expense so if you could move back to your parents and explain your plan to them. If they're reasonable they'll help. If not see if another family member or friend will let you rent a room. Shared accommodation is the cheapest option if you can't or don't have these supports.
    What are you paying monthly?
    My car was my second biggest expense. It was a big car I didn't need, tax and insurance was a lot so I got rid of it, bought a small second hand car with the proceeds. If you can do without a car great.
    I worked out the yearly cost of car vs bus and the car worked out €200 cheaper so stuck with that.
    Forget about holiday, takeaways, eating and drinking out etc. Change these with any free activities like running, learning to cook etc
    Watch your weekly spending, it all adds up, I worked it out and I was spending over €60 a week in work on food and coffee. Then nights out, takeaways and eating out was a few more hundred.
    Give yourself a weekly or monthly budget of what you can spend. I gave myself €100 a month for luxuries. Make a monthly and yearly budget to see what you will have at the end of the year.
    Save what you can you think you can afford. For every month of the year. Birthdays, Christmas and other events that you may have to attend will cost money so factor them in.
    Saving a fixed regular amount looks good on an application but if you start dipping into your savings for these events, it won't look good. Speaking of accounts keep you current ac always in the blacck never use the od. Loans and credit cards should be cleared if possible but there could be other options that the bank might offer like consolation.
    Look at everything that comes out of your account and see if you can do without it.
    Changing jobs could be another thing to look at. If you don't think you're being paid enough move. The only thing it may factor into an application if your on probation etc.

    I think I was saving about 60% of my take home at the time. If I didn't have rent and bills it would have been closer to 80%. It was very hard but extremely satisfying when I finally got my keys to my house in the end.


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  • #172
    newaccount2017
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭newaccount2017


    I bought last year (not in Dublin) for €240,000. My parents gave me €10,000 and I had €60,000 saved up from years of not having a very busy social life. I should have bought a few years ago but I wasn't organised at all but I'm happy with my purchase. I'm single so I figure if times get tough, I can rent 2 of the bedrooms out for some extra income.


  • #173
    GoldenSlumbers
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭GoldenSlumbers


    newaccount2017 wrote: »
    I bought last year (not in Dublin) for €240,000. My parents gave me €10,000 and I had €60,000 saved up from years of not having a very busy social life. I should have bought a few years ago but I wasn't organised at all but I'm happy with my purchase. I'm single so I figure if times get tough, I can rent 2 of the bedrooms out for some extra income.

    on what income did you manage to save 60 000 if you don't mind me asking.


  • #174
    newaccount2017
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭newaccount2017


    Started saving when I started working properly about 10 years ago, at approx €520 a week, saving about €130 a week. Now on €680 a week and I'm just paying my mortgage as if it was my savings. I don't actually have any savings at the moment but hopefully will be able to build them up a small bit again, just for a rainy day fund. My savings were erratic, sometimes I did really well, other times I was useless. What helped was being in a house-share for majority of time so costs were lower. Also not buying an expensive car and being lucky that it gave me no trouble at all. It was only in the last year and a half that I decided to rent my own (small) place for 2 reasons- 1. To see would I be able to manage to pay a lease (like a mortgage) and 2. Because I hated house sharing so much. Lived with some nutters.


  • #175
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,112 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    newaccount2017 wrote: »
    Started saving when I started working properly about 10 years ago, at approx €520 a week, saving about €130 a week. Now on €680 a week and I'm just paying my mortgage as if it was my savings. I don't actually have any savings at the moment but hopefully will be able to build them up a small bit again, just for a rainy day fund. My savings were erratic, sometimes I did really well, other times I was useless. What helped was being in a house-share for majority of time so costs were lower. Also not buying an expensive car and being lucky that it gave me no trouble at all. It was only in the last year and a half that I decided to rent my own (small) place for 2 reasons- 1. To see would I be able to manage to pay a lease (like a mortgage) and 2. Because I hated house sharing so much. Lived with some nutters.

    Fair play to you. Just shows that even on a modest income it is possible to save a deposit.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #176
    GoldenSlumbers
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭GoldenSlumbers


    newaccount2017 wrote: »
    Started saving when I started working properly about 10 years ago, at approx €520 a week, .... Lived with some nutters.

    Ah great! That gives me some hope. I share with 6 housemates and hate it so much right now. It's like living with small children, despite the fact that they're all mid 20s. I'm on about 500 a week too so it's hard to save on that but it's so hopeful to see someone else made it work. I also invest in my own art a lot, which dissolves a lot of money. But maybe I can do the same as you, save bits myself and ask my parents to give an advance on the house. Did the bank give you an amount of money you had to pay upfront to make it work. With the 3,5x your wage rule, I assume you had to pay more upfront?


  • #177
    newaccount2017
    Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭newaccount2017


    GoldenSlumbers wrote: »
    Ah great! That gives me some hope. I share with 6 housemates and hate it so much right now. It's like living with small children, despite the fact that they're all mid 20s. I'm on about 500 a week too so it's hard to save on that but it's so hopeful to see someone else made it work. I also invest in my own art a lot, which dissolves a lot of money. But maybe I can do the same as you, save bits myself and ask my parents to give an advance on the house. Did the bank give you an amount of money you had to pay upfront to make it work. With the 3,5x your wage rule, I assume you had to pay more upfront?

    I got €189,000 off the bank for the mortgage, yeah it was 3.5 times my gross wages last year. I went with the EBS. The man there was really helpful, he did nearly everything for me. I wouldn't be good at all that kind of paperwork and legal stuff. I got mortgage approval about 2 years before and just kept renewing it with new documents and showing my wage increases to increase the amount they would give me for the mortgage.


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