Naturism and Irish beaches

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 30-05-2010 8:07pm

prinz wrote: »

Yes. I am well aware it is condoned and legal in some places but not everywhere. Pus the rules and laws in different places can very topless sunbathing is accepted in a lot of areas whereas totally nude is not etc. It's an extreme over-simplification to say naturism is legal and condoned everywhere in Europe.

I think I need to clarify here:

Naturism is condoned in virtually every country in Europe. This does NOT mean that people have the right to naked every street, town, city, park and so on. If you think this is the point of naturism, you need to do some research. It means that virtually every country has an organisation along with designated beaches or lakes or campsites or whatever where nudity is accepted. I've made this point more than once in this thread.

My previous point wa simply to say that nudity is generally accepted more on the continent, and not even illegal in some countries. This doesn't mean accepted by everyone. There is no such thing as a universal truth, but that's another discussion. Nor does it mean that I want or think that I should have the right to go naked everywhere I please.

Once again:

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think the misconception is that nudists want the right to be naked everywhere. Those in the con camp rather than pro will be able to give a more accurate answer, though.

prinz · 30-05-2010 8:16pm

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think I need to clarify here:
Naturism is condoned in virtually every country in Europe. This does NOT mean that people have the right to naked every street, town, city, park and so on. If you think this is the point of natirism, you need to do some research. It means that virtually every country has an organisation along with designated beaches or lakes or campsites or whatever where nudity is accepted. I've made this point more than once in this thread.

You don't need too clarify anything of the sort so you can keep your research. AFAIK nobody on this thread objected to naturist friendly or naturist designated zones. NOBODY.

It is the "pro-naturists" who are posting on this thread who are posting nonsense about people having emtional and mental problems because they don't want naturists everywhere. Take it up with them because that is the constant insinuation. See the claim of 'segregation' of naturists and clothed something which a naturist desginated beach represents. Perhaps you should read the post I was responding too before telling me I need to do some research :rolleyes:

prinz · 30-05-2010 8:19pm

fatpizzaman wrote: »

Segregation of nudists and naturists is a form of racism and apartheid. See this site for more information..

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Naturism is condoned in virtually every country in Europe. This does NOT mean that people have the right to naked every street, town, city, park and so on. If you think this is the point of naturism, you need to do some research. It means that virtually every country has an organisation along with designated beaches or lakes or campsites or whatever where nudity is accepted. I've made this point more than once in this thread....

See post above. The only person you keep making this point to seems to be yourself, because everyone else is responding to what people are actually saying.

Wibbs · 30-05-2010 8:47pm

fatpizzaman wrote: »

Segregation of nudists and naturists is a form of racism and apartheid.

Hysterical hype much?

People who don't like seeing nude bodies have deep-seated mental and emotional problems within themselves that was instilled in them at an early age and have not been able to dispel as they get older.

I have noted in this thread the the fervent nudist types fall back on this defence, rather this attack when questioned. The rest of those who are scratching our heads or even sitting on the fence are described as somehow sexual perverts or mentalists. It could be easily argued that people who feel a deep seated need to go around naked in any society that has social codes when it comes to exposure of the human body have some sort of issues too. TBH I wouldnt for the most part except for the more fundamental types. BTW all human societies have such social rules. There isnt some utopia out there or in the past where we were "naked, natural and innocent". Forget the book of Genesis, it never happened. For at least 60,000 years anyway. Even such cultures that appear "naked" to western eyes have specific, sometimes very specific codes about what is naked and what is not. In a few tribes women would be naked to our eyes, save for body paint and a belt around their waist that covers little. Might raise a vicars eyebrows, but no problem to the culture. If however she was to remove the belt and wash off the paint in the wrong social context, she would be raising serious eyebrows in her culture. Ditto with the men and their penis sheaths.

I'd like to see it illegal for society to teach children that nudity is 'bad', 'lewd', 'naughty' etc

Good luck with that. I would agree that the naked body should not be a cause for unhealthy feelings.

and teach that clothes are only needed for warmth and protection. Other reasons are superfluous.

Eh, no, they're not. Warmth and protection are actually behind the cultural and social values ascribed to clothes. Oh yes these values can be and often are perverted but they're there and have been there in every culture you choose to look at, now or in the past. They transmit social value, sexual attractiveness, social allegiance. Goths dress like other goths to show allegiance to the notion of "goth" etc. This decoration goes down to body art, tattoos and piercings. Very ancient needs in the human animal. Even when cultures seek to lessen this or proscribe external differences human beings seek to adorn themselves. Look at devout Muslim women in some Islamic cultures. Even though they may be covered from head to foot, they are famed for wearing brightly coloured undergarments, kohl body art and very commonly completely remove all body hair. Clothes are so much more than mere warmth and protection.

Why shouldn't nudists be allowed to co-exist with the rest of society? It's not like they are hardened criminals or terrorists. A case in point: British activist Steven Gough has been jailed in Scotland several times since 2003 all because he wants the right to hike nude across Britain without any ulterior motives. It's wasting the taxpayers money. Leave him to do what he wants, he's not directly harming anyone in the process.

In any society there is a middle ground worked out for the majority. Simple as that. Hey I might want to wear a full harness of armour when I go to a nightclub. That would be cool, but unless its a halloween fancy dress Im gonna get refused at the door. And that's grand. I'm not going to complain as its not appropriate to the situation. Ditto with me walking on sunny beach in Greece in a pair of swimming trunks. Cool, but again I'm not going to take umbrage if someone goes WTF? if I do same in my local pub. I've good mates in the fetish scene and they get a lot out of it in a healthy way. They have their get togethers and no bother at all. Again they do so in context. Some of those men and women in the rest of their lives are decidely vanilla in aspect, but behind closed doors? Its all about context and appropriate context. Hiking naked on public footpaths is neither in context nor appropriate for the culture. More, it looks and is showboating and being willful. Indeed I would consider it somewhat insecure, self centered and immature I have to say. "Oh look at me, I'm being oppressed and I'm making a point".

If we lived in a society where nudity is legal and condoned everywhere, we would be having far less sex crimes and teenage pregnancies than we currently do in our Anglicised cultures.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita Really? Have a look at the rape stats there per country and I'd love to see how you can correlate public nudity with incidence of rape. It's an unbelievably simplistic and naive view. Sex crimes are very complex and you make the usual mistake of assuming they're mostly sex driven. It's more usually a power thing. Indeed there are many cultures at the bottom of that list that are very anti public nudity and there are ones near the top that would be more blase about it. Oh and some in the middle. No connection at all. Teen pregnancies? You're kidding right? Again a massively complex cause and effect thing going on. Far more to do with social issues, poverty, access to contraceptives and sex education.

Works for the Europeans, so why can't we do the same? They are just as human as the rest of us.

Huh?

Look if people want a safe place to go about in the nip, go right ahead. Same with safe places for any group to do their thing, so long as it's not bad for the society. That society should accommodate that, but the sub groups within the society should accommodate those who would be put off by it. It goes both ways. Too much this nudist thing feels to smack more of some quasi religious fervour than anything

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 30-05-2010 10:36pm

prinz wrote: »

You don't need too clarify anything of the sort so you can keep your research. AFAIK nobody on this thread objected to naturist friendly or naturist designated zones. NOBODY.

It is the "pro-naturists" who are posting on this thread who are posting nonsense about people having emtional and mental problems because they don't want naturists everywhere. Take it up with them because that is the constant insinuation. See the claim of 'segregation' of naturists and clothed something which a naturist desginated beach represents. Perhaps you should read the post I was responding too before telling me I need to do some research :rolleyes:

No, it isn't - it's one or two hysterical nutcases. On both sides.
Fatpizzaman went OTT (and embarraasingly so) and Elle Collins seemer to think that having designated nude beaches meant that she was goig to have naked people flauting themselves all over the place.

Fatpizzaman and Hazlittle are not representative of the naturist society, resulting in misinformation and people thinking that naturists want the right to walk down O'Connell Street naked. This is simply not ture. Hence my request that you got you info from reliable sources and not an internet thread.

prinz wrote: »

See post above. The only person you keep making this point to seems to be yourself, because everyone else is responding to what people are actually saying.

Brit.Naturism was making the same point I believe. There are hundreds of other organistaions making the same point all over the world.

We really aren't that different in our opinions - but PLEASE do NOT fall into the trap of thinking Fatpizzaman and Hazlittle are representative of the naturist community - nothing could be further from the truth.

prinz · 31-05-2010 9:33am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Fatpizzaman and Hazlittle are not representative of the naturist society, resulting in misinformation and people thinking that naturists want the right to walk down O'Connell Street naked. This is simply not ture. Hence my request that you got you info from reliable sources and not an internet thread..

Again, is there something wrong with replying to people on boards now? What external information on naturists I have is irrelevant when responding to people making ridiculous statements here on this thread.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Brit.Naturism was making the same point I believe. There are hundreds of other organistaions making the same point all over the world...

Brit.Naturism also made the point that anyone not interested in the naturist lifestyle is obviously finds the human body offensive. Again a ridiculous claim to make. Which IMO is an attempt to undermine even the position of supporting desginated naturist areas.

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

We really aren't that different in our opinions - but PLEASE do NOT fall into the trap of thinking Fatpizzaman and Hazlittle are representative of the naturist community - nothing could be further from the truth.

I haven't, merely calling them on nonsense.

Josh_Calvert · 31-12-2010 6:13pm

there's all the world of difference between proper naturism and people subtly or not so subtly geared toward getting a buzz from exhibitionism...the former is what I'm interested in, the latter is where bad reputations come from.Any advice for a newcomer to naturism in ireland?

looksee · 04-01-2011 2:05am

Josh_Calvert wrote: »

there's all the world of difference between proper naturism and people subtly or not so subtly geared toward getting a buzz from exhibitionism...the former is what I'm interested in, the latter is where bad reputations come from.Any advice for a newcomer to naturism in ireland?

That's a bit like saying that if you join a golf club you only want to play golf with serious golfers, you don't want to be involved with the social golfers and wannabees. In any situation you are going to get levels of both and its very difficult to sort them out. And what do you want to get from naturism if not a bit of a buzz - not necessarily exhibitionism, but you have to get something from it?

looksee · 04-01-2011 2:41am

People who don't like seeing nude bodies have deep-seated mental and emotional problems within themselves that was instilled in them at an early age and have not been able to dispel as they get older.

I was in school in the 50's/60's and we routinely had communal (segregated)showers, and I have also been in saunas without swimwear etc. As it happens I have never been in a situation of being nude in mixed company, but it would not be an issue to me in the right environment, swimming, for example. However I have no interest in doing it just for the sake of being naked.

However to follow some of the more provocative (!) arguments through, I would not fancy sitting on a bus with my bare bum on a seat that had had a succession of other bare bums on it. And someone else's fat bare hip up against mine. And come to think of it, where would you keep your bus fare?

The vast majority of days in Ireland it would be way too cold to not wear clothes and on the few remaining days you would be at risk of some very painful sunburn. It would be very hard on the feet too. And nothing looks as ridiculous as a person with nothing on but socks and shoes.

Inevitably, if naturism was the norm, people would promptly start decorating themselves and in no time you would have clothing again.

madmac187 · 27-01-2011 12:21am

To be honest I'd love it, naked feels better

But wouldn't do it because it would be full of men and no women for miles and certainly none my age ie 24.

Brit.Naturism · 27-01-2011 2:19am

madmac187 wrote: »

To be honest I'd love it, naked feels better But wouldn't do it because it would be full of men and no women for miles and certainly none my age ie 24.

Hi madmac. Glad to hear you are keen, but sorry to hear you rule it out on those grounds. A lot depends on the beach you go to, some are very popular with families, so it isn't just old men for miles!

There is a classic 'chicken & egg' situation here; if all people your age take the same attitude, then there will be no people your age there, thus making it a self-fulfilling prophesy. The only way to break the cycle is to go anyway and hope to meet someone who's company you can enjoy, whether or not they are exactly your age. Alternatively, encourage your friends to go with you.

In BN we have YBN (Young British Naturists) specifically for the 16 to 30 year olds, in an effort to break this very deadlock.

At the end of the day it is you who will miss out on potential enjoyment if you don't take that risk...

airman101 · 02-03-2011 4:13pm

gotta love bein naked!!!!! seriously thinking of hitting brittas bay this friday!! bring on the sun

axer · 01-05-2011 8:21pm

airman101 wrote: »

gotta love bein naked!!!!! seriously thinking of hitting brittas bay this friday!! bring on the sun

Where exactly in brittas bay is the nudist part?
Can you mark it on this map and give coordinates:[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif]
http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html

Thanks.
[/FONT]

airman101 · 05-05-2011 11:19am

if you take the turn off the n11 at the signpost for brittas bay and head towards the main beach, rather than take the left and then drive into the car park instead turn right and drive for about 2 miles until you come to wat i tink is the first t-junction, park the car at the t-junction and go through the the gate, the sand dunes and the beach there is the nudist(friendly) area...

Liberal Irishman · 27-06-2011 5:34pm

Having been to a few naturist beaches both here and on the continent, I think it fair to say that there is a certain sexual element to being naked in public under the sun (at least for the first few hours), especially coming from such a repressive background, as the old Ireland was.
We are all sexual beings, and I think it is quite normal to want to ‘check each other out’ in some way. Personally, if I see someone taking a discrete peek I tend to take it as a compliment.
That said, I do not for one minute condone the ‘lewd’ behaviour that you see on Irish beaches. If someone wants to get all hot and bothered about the whole thing at least do it somewhere private!

Brit.Naturism · 27-06-2011 10:20pm

I cannot say I have ever found Naturism to be a sexual experience, but then I have had Naturist tendencies since a very early age, long before I developed any sexual awareness.

I think you are right when you blame such feelings on a repressed upbringing and equally right when you say that it wears off after a few hours (or minutes according to some I have spoken to). It is a well know fact that boys raised in a puritanical environment have a greater interest in pornography...

As for lewd behaviour, this is not what Naturism is about, but sadly some people think that a Naturist beach is a good place for dogging! To them I will say IT IS NOT! Anyone engaging in such acts is just as unwelcome at a Naturist beach as anywhere else and we are encouraging our members to report any such behaviour to the police. I have seen people arrested as a result of such reports and they have ended up on the sexual offenders register.

lace · 27-06-2011 10:31pm

I thought the lack of nudist/nautirst beaches in Ireland was moreso due to the horrible weather than anything else?

Personally, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with it and I think most people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

However, we Irish seem to have some kind of ingrained societal shame when it comes to our bodies (perhaps due to the massive role the church has played in Irish life in the past). Many (mainly older) people are very concerned with "modesty" etc. and I could certainly see these people getting offended. Also there's the issue of parents who don't want their children asking awkward questions.

Brit.Naturism · 28-06-2011 1:09am

lace wrote: »

I thought the lack of nudist/nautirst beaches in Ireland was moreso due to the horrible weather than anything else?

Doesn't Ireland have a similar climate to England? My recollection of visits in the past is one of a very good climate, but I might have been just lucky?

lace wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with it and I think most people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

This is the reaction of the vast majority (88%), if our surveys are anything to go by...

lace wrote: »

However, we Irish seem to have some kind of ingrained societal shame when it comes to our bodies (perhaps due to the massive role the church has played in Irish life in the past). Many (mainly older) people are very concerned with "modesty" etc. and I could certainly see these people getting offended. Also there's the issue of parents who don't want their children asking awkward questions.

Pope John Paul II from his book "The Theology of the Body": "The human body can remain nude and uncovered and preserve intact its splendour and its beauty... Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness... Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person...The human body is not in itself shameful... Shamelessness (just like shame and modesty) is a function of the interior of a person."

Liberal Irishman · 29-06-2011 12:27pm

Brit.Naturism wrote: »

I
right when you say that it wears off after a few hours (or minutes according to some I have spoken to).

Yes, I suppose that a few ‘hours’ is a bit of an exaggeration.

‘An hour’ would be more accurate!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-06-2011 1:05pm

lace wrote: »

I thought the lack of nudist/nautirst beaches in Ireland was moreso due to the horrible weather than anything else?

Personally, I wouldn't have any kind of problem with it and I think most people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

However, we Irish seem to have some kind of ingrained societal shame when it comes to our bodies (perhaps due to the massive role the church has played in Irish life in the past). Many (mainly older) people are very concerned with "modesty" etc. and I could certainly see these people getting offended. Also there's the issue of parents who don't want their children asking awkward questions.

The Irish climate allows swimming on beaches occasionally and a lot fo people go in for it. A swimsuit doesn't really keep you any warmer.

Agree with the rest of it, but I really think most parents are not that bothered if the kid sees another naked person. Probably see them in swimming pool changign rooms all the time.

airman101 · 30-06-2011 10:05am

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The Irish climate allows swimming on beaches occasionally and a lot fo people go in for it. A swimsuit doesn't really keep you any warmer.

Agree with the rest of it, but I really think most parents are not that bothered if the kid sees another naked person. Probably see them in swimming pool changign rooms all the time.

exactly, go into any swimming pool changing room in the country (male changing rooms at least) and there are people walking around naked and no1 seems to bat an eye... the problem seems to be members of the opposite sex being naked, its all a bit stupid really, its only a body at the end of the day!!

Liberal Irishman · 01-07-2011 3:21pm

azezil wrote: »

Just on a, kinda related note. Is Naturism truely an appropriate title for this activity?

If nature intended us to wander around naked wouldn't we be covered in fur or blubber? we're not, so we have to wear clothes to keep warm, thus is it not resonable to say, its not natural?

Not all climates dictate that ‘we be covered in fur or blubber’.

Peoples such as the aborigines, large populations of Africans (where man has supposedly originated), tropical inhabitants etc. etc. regularly go naked on a day-to-day basis.

I think it is VERY natural!

Wibbs · 01-07-2011 11:17pm

Liberal Irishman wrote: »

Not all climates dictate that ‘we be covered in fur or blubber’.

Peoples such as the aborigines, large populations of Africans (where man has supposedly originated), tropical inhabitants etc. etc. regularly go naked on a day-to-day basis.

I think it is VERY natural!

Not quite and it's a needlessly simplistic take IMHO. They go naked or semi naked to our cultural centric eyes. Those cultures have a very definite delineation between the naked and dressed, the public and private, indeed the sexual and non sexual. A thin leather belt, a penis sheath, a necklace can all signify "clothed" and removal of same in public is just as taboo as walking down Grafton Street in the nip. A Muslim woman ins a devout Muslim area is "naked" if her hair is uncovered even if she is fully clothed in a shapeless dress that gives no clue to the form beneath. "Natural" is a very culturally loaded term in humans.

"Natural" and the notion of the "return to innocence" is a common thread in European thought throughout the ages. The notion of getting back to simpler, less judgemental times. Indeed not just in Europe, it's common in every advanced* and complex and especially rapidly changing civilisation. IMHO Naturism is an example of that. The body luddite in a way. The comfort blanket from a past that never existed. Cool and the gang if it's a personal preference but I take issue when it's dressed up as "natural", when such dressing up is culturally subjective and anthropologically misinformed.

*or retarded depending on viewpoint. Though I see issues in complex civilisations, I'd go still go with advanced as I'm not a hippie.

airman101 · 14-07-2011 1:42pm

if the weather is as nice tomorrow as it is today im headin down to brittas bay, any1 fancy headin down?? oh tomorrow is the 15/07/2011 by the way

Paulownia · 19-08-2011 9:26am

There seems to have been a falling off of interest in this topic here. Can't imagine why!:):)

Paulownia · 26-08-2011 5:03pm

I was at Brittas naturist part yesterday, it was lovely there

Liberal Irishman · 08-10-2011 4:44pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Not quite and it's a needlessly simplistic take IMHO. They go naked or semi naked to our cultural centric eyes. Those cultures have a very definite delineation between the naked and dressed, the public and private, indeed the sexual and non sexual. A thin leather belt, a penis sheath, a necklace can all signify "clothed" and removal of same in public is just as taboo as walking down Grafton Street in the nip. A Muslim woman ins a devout Muslim area is "naked" if her hair is uncovered even if she is fully clothed in a shapeless dress that gives no clue to the form beneath. "Natural" is a very culturally loaded term in humans.

"Natural" and the notion of the "return to innocence" is a common thread in European thought throughout the ages. The notion of getting back to simpler, less judgemental times. Indeed not just in Europe, it's common in every advanced* and complex and especially rapidly changing civilisation. IMHO Naturism is an example of that. The body luddite in a way. The comfort blanket from a past that never existed. Cool and the gang if it's a personal preference but I take issue when it's dressed up as "natural", when such dressing up is culturally subjective and anthropologically misinformed.

*or retarded depending on viewpoint. Though I see issues in complex civilisations, I'd go still go with advanced as I'm not a hippie.

No point taking things too seriously!

liz1 · 13-01-2012 12:11am

Zombrex wrote: »

I thought not wearing clothes was a nudest, not a naturalist

As someone pointed out earlier it isn't "natural" (from a purely biological sense, not talking about morality) not to wear clothes all the time, so someone saying this is the natural state of a human being is incorrect. The natural state of a human is to wear some form of protective cloth over their bodies. Otherwise we would all still be covered in thick hair.

Anyway, I would be all for allowing nudest beaches so long as they are clearly sign posted. Having seens (but not taken part in mind) a nudest beach in Europe I can safely say that the horny teenage fantasy that a nudest beach is loads of young women and men rolling around having sex is a little off the mark. The one I saw was a load of middle aged, slightly over weight, hairy people lying around drinking bottles of coke and eating sandwitches.

i was sitting at work listening to 2 people saying about their holiday in gran canaria being spoilt because they liked to walk along the beach every day and they had to see all the people on the nudist beach and it was disgusting. When i asked why didnt they walk elsewhere or just avert their eyes when walking through the clearly marked nudist beach they replied that they supposed i went on the nudist beach otherwise i would agree with them.

I explained that i did go to the nudist beach and had a very enjoyable holiday but then i didn't waste my time judging the people wearing clothes on the beach.

Naturism and Irish beaches

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