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Peter Casey's beliefs of Travellers' ethnicity Part II

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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    listermint wrote: »
    Then act like that quote. Please. Act like it.

    I do.
    Omackeral wrote: »
    I've said before on here that I would treat anyone man,woman or child with the utmost respect until they give me a reason not to. That's regardless of colour, creed or faith. In fact, I work with Travellers every day that I clock in to work, for 12 hours a day. I have some fantastic craic with Travellers and some of them are amongst the most funny and good natured fellas I encounter. On a personal level, I enjoy their company tbh. However, it's a jail I work in and they aren't there via special invite.
    Omackeral wrote: »
    I must point out I do agree with this in a sense. A lot of people don't seem to care if you call them knackers and other derogatory names and I absolutely fcuking despise that. I've said as much on here for years. I hate it. There's no need for it.

    Doesn't mean one can't make valid criticisms either. I agree that many are all tarred as scum before they're given a chance. I feel awful for anybody written of before they've opened their mouth. I'm also a realist though and understand why some businesses or individuals may feel like they need to be cautious too. It's unfortunate but it's not born out of nowhere.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    Well that's progress I suppose that you recognise they are an ethnicity.

    Next is to get you to see and understand that it does not confer any 'extra' equality on them.

    Different is not different.
    And before we go down the rabbithole again, an 'entitlement' is not an extra right.

    Entitlements are not entitlements.
    listermint wrote: »
    Please take a moment out of your Sunday morning to watch this short snippit.

    It was made by the American government in 1943

    It's incredibly apt right now in America. In the UK and frankly to this entire threads permise. I'm in no doubt that there is ultras that will sneer at it but I don't really care. If the ones on the fence that are willfully vilifiying an entire group of people get it then it's done it's job.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1058991043696345088

    You still here?

    Not sure why you're posting WW2 propaganda (it is explicitly such). Don't worry your head listermint, I'll do the work for you!

    So the American movie Don't be a sucker was warning against 5th columnists and socially divisive rabble rousers. Presumably it was also an opportunity for FDR to promote racial desegregation as well, though that didn't stop him from the mass interment of people with Japanese heritage the year before.

    A fascist who was openly anti-Catholic Church? Seems a bit unlikely. Also the fascists in America were more likely to be acting on a pacifist note, in the same way that the fascists in Germany were more about undoing the Versailles Treaty as their primary take-home message.

    Wait - but how does this relate to Ireland?

    Dun dun dun


    It's that when you get someone lauching tirades against certain people or organizations, like the Catholic Church, the Brits, the Prods, or the scummy bankers, you are giving into extremism. I think I've picked that up wrong.

    Okay, I'll give it another go. There are 5th columnists afoot who will weaken the war effort. They should not be given a platform from which to sow division during these perilous times. No, no, I'm still missing it.

    This is tougher than I thought, listermint, I'm not surprised you left it to me.

    Oh wait, Casey is a fascist.

    Got it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edward M wrote: »
    They don't want inclusivity, that's the point lost on a good few, they tell you that themselves if you talked to them.
    They want to be free to live their lives as they do and not have any interference from me and thee.
    The problem is that their way of life impedes on ours and they aren't happy with our laws impeding on theirs.

    They campaigned for this for years. They want their diversity recognised.
    Not sure why you wish to make things up them wanting to live above our laws in some way.

    Anecdotal stories about what a traveller on a market stall tells you aren't much use here. I could just invent another traveller saying something different.
    The point is, and the effect of SEMS should be that their way of life shouldn't impede on ours like that of other ethnicities living here shouldn't.
    That's if you want to live in a tolerant society. Which I certainly do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn



    Thats exactly it and in the Tipperary hirse and house case the travellers said they never asked for the houses.
    Travellers dont finish education so any work they can find will be low paid and they have no hope of work unless they have a fixed address. The fixed address means bills and responsibilities and not ringing the council to tepair damage done and collect rubbish etc and traveller culture involves living on handouts from everyone else( including begging at doors) Its not the individual traveller that employers could be financially induced to employ, its the fact that employers wouldnt trust the individual not to give information to traveller criminal elements, once bitten twice shy.
    Have you ever spoken or even been within ten km of a traveller listermint, if not take your nose out of your sociology lecture notes and go and visit a few halting sites.

    I still cant believe elderly people are opening doirs to unknown people though I suppose if you dont open the door criminals will come in the window. I had the Romas around last christmas, they turned up singing carols tunelessly and I ran them. An older msn living alone let one in to use his bathroom and they ransacked his house. Another family discovered Romas were calling to their elderly mother regularly “for tea”, their mother had early inset dementia and the Roma were emptying her purse every week and had the full run of her house.
    What can you say or do, the Gardai do their best and when I rang them about “ the choir” they responded immediately. I saw them stopping a Roma woman recently and they searched her double buggy, I heard them telling her she was a disgrace so the two children must have been sitting on stolen property.
    My sons phone was stolen in a night club and the Gardai told him Roma gangs fly in and steal hundreds of phones in one night and then fly back out again. I suppose the Roma are a disadvantaged put upon group too, big resigned sigh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    They campaigned for this for years. They want their diversity recognised.

    You seem to have a lot of information on lock. What makes a Traveller, a Traveller?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,905 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Edward M wrote: »
    I will, you too. I'm off to a market to do a stall, I'll be beside a few travellers, we'll have a chat and d craic too, how many of them will you be chatting to today?

    if you see my stihl chainsaw for sale let me know


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Omackeral wrote: »
    You seem to have a lot of information on lock. What makes a Traveller, a Traveller?

    Plenty of info out there on that subject. Presented on this thread too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Plenty of info out there on that subject. Presented on this thread too.

    There's over 10,000 posts on here. Could you just tell me? I'm asking you directly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Omackeral wrote: »
    There's over 10,000 posts on here. Could you just tell me? I'm asking you directly.

    Oh no the thread is going to implode and kill all the hamsters!!!

    macaulay-culkin


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Omackeral wrote: »
    There's over 10,000 posts on here. Could you just tell me? I'm asking you directly.

    Dear O, if you are the second highest contributor to that thread of 10,000 posts and you need to be told what it is travellers believe makes them travellers then I am sorry, I have no inclination to help you.

    I have read the documentation on SEMS, I have listened to their representative bodies and I have listened to the arguments against it and I accept their status. Not particularly interested in arguing about that or rehashing it.

    I would expect the same sort of interaction with and understanding of, the information off anyone who wants to be considered a serious contributor to this particular debate.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Well that's progress I suppose that you recognise they are an ethnicity.

    Next is to get you to see and understand that it does not confer any 'extra' equality on them.

    And before we go down the rabbithole again, an 'entitlement' is not an extra right. Democratic and caring societies give extra entitlements and make special provision for, many many sections of society. And indeed, this community had entitlements and extra provision in law, long before SEMS, just like the disabled, the elderly, single mothers etc etc.

    As previously pointed out, abuse of the above happens but has to be tolerated, to a degree, if we wish to live in a democratic, caring society.


    I think there are a great many people that believe the entitlements provided are unnecessarily generous and that we are well past that degree of tolerating abuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I think there are a great many people that believe the entitlements provided are unnecessarily generous and that we are well past that degree of tolerating abuse.

    Have been saying it all through the thread. Abuses of welfare and entitlements occur across society and should be dealt with.
    Should a presidential candidate be allowed to target one community on that subject in an erroneous and discriminatory way? No, he should be robustly challenged on that. And he was. Hence the whinging.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    They campaigned for this for years. They want their diversity recognised.
    Not sure why you wish to make things up them wanting to live above our laws in some way.

    .

    Can you outline exactly what diversity travellers have that should be recognised?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,032 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    complaints@rte.ie is the place to go.

    This is the legislation that they failed in

    "RTÉ is obliged under Section 39 (1) of the Broadcasting Act 2009 to ensure that:

    (a) all news broadcast is reported and presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of the broadcaster's own views."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    Plenty of info out there on that subject. Presented on this thread too.

    What makes the jump from being down on unionists, in other threads, and their intolerance of gays and abortion issues, to defending another group with virtually the same intolerance?
    Not to mention their proclamations on their fight challenge videos calling opponents handicapped bastards.
    It's time some had a look at the human rights attitude of the group they're trying to defend.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    Have been saying it all through the thread. Abuses of welfare and entitlements occur across society and should be dealt with.
    Should a presidential candidate be allowed to target one community on that subject in an erroneous and discriminatory way? No, he should be robustly challenged on that. And he was. Hence the whinging.


    He didn't target them though did he? Wasn't he directly asked a question about them?


    And while you are right that the issues occur across the country, they are extremely and disproportionally prevalent in the relatively small traveller community. How do you address the high levels of crime, illiteracy, substance abuse and violence in the community if you cannot discuss them openly?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Thats exactly it and in the Tipperary horse and house case the travellers said they never asked for the houses. They dont want inclusivity,they want local authorities to buy sites for them so they can live with their personally chosen extended clan beside them. They will bring up their children in filth and squalor rather than live beside someone they dont want to be beside. Giving them ethnic status only led to less understanding on their behalf about how unreasonable they are.

    Travellers dont finish education so any work they can find will be low paid and they have no hope of work unless they have a fixed address. The fixed address means bills and responsibilities and not ringing the council to tepair damage done and collect rubbish etc and traveller culture involves living on handouts from everyone else( including begging at doors) Its not the individual traveller that employers could be financially induced to employ, its the fact that employers wouldnt trust the individual not to give information to traveller criminal elements, once bitten twice shy.

    Have you ever spoken or even been within ten km of a traveller listermint, if not take your nose out of your sociology lecture notes and go and visit a few halting sites.

    I still cant believe elderly people are opening doirs to unknown people though I suppose if you dont open the door criminals will come in the window. I had the Romas around last christmas, they turned up singing carols tunelessly and I ran them. An older msn living alone let one in to use his bathroom and they ransacked his house. Another family discovered Romas were calling to their elderly mother regularly “for tea”, their mother had early inset dementia and the Roma were emptying her purse every week and had the full run of her house.
    What can you say or do, the Gardai do their best and when I rang them about “ the choir” they responded immediately. I saw them stopping a Roma woman recently and they searched her double buggy, I heard them telling her she was a disgrace so the two children must have been sitting on stolen property.
    My sons phone was stolen in a night club and the Gardai told him Roma gangs fly in and steal hundreds of phones in one night and then fly back out again. I suppose the Roma are a disadvantaged put upon group too, big resigned sigh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edward M wrote: »
    What makes the jump from being down on unionists, in other threads, and their intolerance of gays and abortion issues, to defending another group with virtually the same intolerance?
    Not to mention their proclamations on their fight challenge videos calling opponents handicapped bastards.
    It's time some had a look at the human rights attitude of the group they're trying to defend.

    I am not trying to defend any group's stance on different issues. If they are wrong about gay rights or abortion etc, I will challenge them on that if I disagree. Their SEMS status does not threaten my rights to do that.

    You will notice that I have never questioned a Unionist's right to identify as British. I voted for the GFA.

    Same thing here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    He didn't target them though did he? Wasn't he directly asked a question about them?


    And while you are right that the issues occur across the country, they are extremely and disproportionally prevalent in the relatively small traveller community. How do you address the high levels of crime, illiteracy, substance abuse and violence in the community if you cannot discuss them openly?

    No. He was asked about homelessness and introduced travellers and Tipperary himself.

    He hasn't addressed any of the other issues you mention, that I can see. That is what his supporters think he was referring to in some sort of masonic secret shorthand way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    I wonder will Tubridy make any reference on his radio show tomorrow to the criticism he got on twitter over his totally biased interview with Peter Casey.

    As a very unwilling licence fee payer to RTE I would like management to review that interview and call Tubridy to account over it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    it's quite obvious what she was talking about.



    we very much have the balls to deport them. once the full procedures are exausted. direct provision may have it's faults but people going through the process need to be accommodated somewhere while they go through the process, somewhere the authorities can insure their whereabouts. + the majority of asylum seekers aren't fraudsters, they haven't been charged with, and in a court of law, found guilty of fraud.



    or perhapse she is busy, out somewhere, asleep, whichever?



    i'd say there is no chance. he couldn't even get elected to the presidentsy. i have a feeling this chap if he does go for politics, will be the irish version of flipflop farage. running for election but keeps being rejected.

    I say there will be every chance he will be voted in especially in the counties he topped the presidential vote in. He has done very well so far.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,934 ✭✭✭✭fin12


    nope. he really doesn't. he says what some people think. but he most certainly does not say what all the rest of us think.



    so am i, but peter casey is the exact same as them.



    casey supporters got plenty of platforms to get their message across.

    Sorry he does talk about more than Travellers, he was talking about health care the last night and the terrible long waiting lists for operations something I know all too well about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Dear O, if you are the second highest contributor to that thread of 10,000 posts and you need to be told what it is travellers believe makes them travellers then I am sorry I have no inclination to help you.

    Ok grand. I thought it would be a handy definition you'd have to hand and you'd have no problem sharing it. My mistake.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    They campaigned for this for years. They want their diversity recognised.

    What makes them diverse? I think it's glaringly obvious what the general population recognises as traveller "diversity" but could you describe what you think their "diversity" is and why it needed to be recognised?
    Not sure why you wish to make things up them wanting to live above our laws in some way.

    Do you listen to the news? There is absolutely no need for anyone to make anything up about travellers, they create their own headlines.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Should a presidential candidate be allowed to target one community on that subject in an erroneous and discriminatory way? No, he should be robustly challenged on that. And he was. Hence the whinging.

    He was asked a question about the community in question and responded. He didn't target anyone. You're wrong. Incorrect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 66,281 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    erica74 wrote: »
    What makes them diverse? I think it's glaringly obvious what the general population recognises as traveller "diversity" but could you describe what you think their "diversity" is and why it needed to be recognised?



    Do you listen to the news? There is absolutely no need for anyone to make anything up about travellers, they create their own headlines.

    Some of them do, of that there is no doubt. Some of the settled community make the news too, some of our immigrant community as well, and for equally bad reasons.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Panch18 wrote: »
    Can you outline exactly what diversity travellers have that should be recognised?

    LOoK iN tHe ThReAd ThErE aRe 10K pOsTs!


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    complaints@rte.ie is the place to go.

    This is the legislation that they failed in

    "RTis obliged under Section 39 (1) of the Broadcasting Act 2009 to ensure that:

    (a) all news broadcast is reported and presented in an objective and impartial manner and without any expression of the broadcaster's own views."

    That'll end up in the same type of filing cabinet as Francie's group's complaint to the Gardai :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    The insurance companies are getting to grips with false personal injury claims and no prizes for guessing which members of our community are over represented in personal injuries claims.

    Its about time the Insurance companies tackled this problem because its us fools who payy insurance and road tax who have been funding these payouts.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/court-directs-60k-fraudulent-insurance-claim-be-reported-to-garda%C3%AD-1.3291459

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/2768170/julieanne-joyce-taxi-claim-thrown-out/

    Its all part of the culture and the Gardai dont have the expertise or the manpower to prosecute fraudsters. There should be a dedicated unit set up within the Gardai to deal with these people even if its funded by the insurance companies themselves. I would have no problem in paying extra for car insurance if it meant people would be prosecuted for these crimes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭erica74


    No. He was asked about homelessness and introduced travellers and Tipperary himself.

    Houses being built and refused by anyone is certainly relevant to a discussion about homelessness. Why should he not have brought up travellers and the issues they cause in society?


This discussion has been closed.
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