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Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    pjohnson wrote: »
    All Merc would need to do is have a base/default position for whenever Hamilton/Bottas are turning off the car. If they have a constant base setting to use during parc ferme then the measurements would always match?


    That's the whole point - it can't be measured with the car in motion, but it's patently clear from the footage that the setting is changing on-the-fly.


    Joeface wrote: »
    I am curious to know this adjustment will actually work in Race conditions . It's a neat addition to the Tech in the car . but how does the car handle when your doing a steering adjustment for the straight , then going defensive into the turn "if" someone can get close enough , and your doing that adjustment to steering positions and also turning defensively . It's a lot of adjust ments under persure and surely it will change how the car feels at a given time .


    Not very difficult I'd say, it's a matter of pulling on the wheel coming out of a corner and pushing in going in. Probably only makes sense on longer straights (e.g. in Barcelona, the pit straight and the one between turns 9-10.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,095 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    So, I am clearly a bit more obsessed with this than others, but Racing Point are hilarious this year.

    Here are comparisons from last years Merc...enjoy.

    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-ed1cc280-1671939.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-17a355bc-1671942.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-e5d782ac-1671944.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-c18d01ea-1671949.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-fd61a583-1671937.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-e9821e25-1671951.jpg
    Vergleich-Racing-Point-RP20-vs-Mercedes-W10-F1-2020-169FullWidth-ab1b2ea3-1671932.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,425 ✭✭✭Inviere


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Paradoxically, I have a feeling it might be what prompted the creation of the system - the "oh wait, this is not in this year's rules" moment.

    Very possible. It also could be the case that Merc were speaking to the FIA about the system (they have claimed to have been speaking to the FIA about it for quite a while), and that's what prompted the 2021 ban. It definitely sounds like the closure of a loophole. We'll prob never know for sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,606 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    Gintonious wrote: »
    So, I am clearly a bit more obsessed with this than others, but Racing Point are hilarious this year.

    Here are comparisons from last years Merc...enjoy.

    I for one am happy that Racing Point potentially have a decent package to start the season with. Thought Andrew Green explained the logic very well

    https://streamable.com/br8h3


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I for one am happy that Racing Point potentially have a decent package to start the season with. Thought Andrew Green explained the logic very well

    https://streamable.com/br8h3

    Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

    If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,606 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

    If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...

    You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I completely disagree and think the team are within the rules. If they're not then I assume they'll be investigated and punished accordingly. Anyway, there's no guarantee the risk will pay off, we need to wait and see how the competitive order stacks up in Melbourne.

    Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    Stupid question time

    Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,883 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    skipper_G wrote: »
    You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I completely disagree and think the team are within the rules. If they're not then I assume they'll be investigated and punished accordingly. Anyway, there's no guarantee the risk will pay off, we need to wait and see how the competitive order stacks up in Melbourne.

    Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one

    He's talking about the Racing Point car being a copy of the Merc, not the Merc steering system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,606 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    He's talking about the Racing Point car being a copy of the Merc, not the Merc steering system.

    I know, I wasn't talking about the steering system on the Merc either


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,482 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Face like an arse - this is the same team who admitted taking "team orders" from Mercedes. No transfer of knowledge me arse - too many details are the same. That car IS a W10 with a different paintjob.

    If there ever was a more valid car for letting teams sell customer cars, this is it: they're going to do it anyway...
    skipper_G wrote: »
    Also, what team orders are you referring to? Lost me on that one

    I would also like to know.:confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,095 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    “Looking at the delta pace and eventually what we may assess in terms of fuel load, which you never know in terms of engine modes, etc – looking at the picture relative to ourselves, I think we are not as fast as they are,” Binotto told reporters at a media session in Barcelona.

    “I’m not as optimistic as last year. The others are faster than us at the moment I believe.

    “How much faster I think it’s really difficult to judge.

    “We will go through all the data in the next days. But I don’t think we are as fast as them at the moment.

    “Do we have any concerns? Certainly yes, when you are not as fast as you would like to be. But I think it’s really too early stage to define them and to understand.

    “So these three days for us have been very important because at least we have collected all the data now to have a clear picture and better understanding. What will be even more important is to make sure that we are developing the car in the right direction.

    “Having said that, it’s a very long season, 22 races potentially, so I think there will be time as well to recover eventually.

    “But let’s wait for next week and let’s wait for Australia before to assess what’s the true performance of everybody.”

    Already a bit gloomy from Ferrari.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    double post


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,831 ✭✭✭Peanut Butter Jelly


    Quizzed about whether team orders were in effect, Ocon said: “I’m a Mercedes driver, you should ask the boss.

    Asked if there was an ‘unwritten rule’ that Mercedes-powered Force India were not to make things difficult for the Silver Arrows, Ocon answered: “Maybe.”

    Belgian newspaper La Dernière Heure then got confirmation from Mercedes boss Toto Wolff that Ocon had been ordered to move aside.

    “Yes, because that’s the way it is,” Wolff simply said.

    Source


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    vectra wrote: »
    I would also like to know.:confused:

    Couple of situations in 2018 they let Mercedes pass for position (usually as a result of differing strategies) with admission from both parties it was "team orders". Usually involving Ocon.

    As for the car - guys, they are carbon copies; I know people in here love Racing Point for their Jordan roots, but the team ain't Jordan anymore. Let's be honest - an hard drive with the CATIA/Solidworks/whatever files made its way to them at some point last year. Even tiny details are identical to the square millimeter.

    It doesn't mean it's going to perform the same - team expertise and budget are massive differentiators, we see this in lower formulae and Indycar where, even with everyone having the same materials, the bigger/richer/more organized teams almost always find their way to the front. But it IS a slap in the face of all other midfield teams who more or less develop their own cars. They can claim "convergent designs" all they want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,201 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    What are the lap times like versus last year?
    It's all well and good turning up with a 1 year old mercedes design but would mercedes be anywhere near the front today if they arrived with the car they were using early last year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    They are using the 2019 Mercedes gearbox so makes sense for them to use the 2019 Mercedes chassis too :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Stupid question time

    Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't

    Years ago teams had three cars at a race weekend and one was a spare which was set up for one of the two drivers. Nowadays I honestly don't know. I don't know if there's a rule prohibiting it from happening but I can't see your example ever happening.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    The driver which starts qualifying in the car is the only driver that can complete the race in that car. There was a situation around 2018 where one driver was injured during qualifying and Williams (I think) weren't allowed to run another driver as Massa had participated in Q1 so they just had one car in the race.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Stupid question time

    Can drivers swap cars? Say Hamiltons Merc craps the bed on the formation lap, can he then just jump into Bottas'? Say for instance if he was in a close title race late in the season and Bottas wasn't

    As far as I know they can't and even if they were allowed they might not fit in their team mates car or like the way their teammates car is setup.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,606 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G



    Here’s an article from a different source about the same race saying something different

    https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/29/no-special-favours-to-help-hamilton-and-mercedes-say-force-india/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,201 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Before quali they can. Di resta stepped in a half hour before quali not so long ago.
    The cars can be setup to suit other driver in a short time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,610 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    How are people pronouncing Alpha Tauri... I thought it was Alpha 'Tour-ree' but I hear some media outlets saying Alpha Tower-ree. My Italian is non-existent btw!

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,606 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    H3llR4iser wrote: »
    Couple of situations in 2018 they let Mercedes pass for position (usually as a result of differing strategies) with admission from both parties it was "team orders". Usually involving Ocon.

    As for the car - guys, they are carbon copies; I know people in here love Racing Point for their Jordan roots, but the team ain't Jordan anymore. Let's be honest - an hard drive with the CATIA/Solidworks/whatever files made its way to them at some point last year. Even tiny details are identical to the square millimeter.

    It doesn't mean it's going to perform the same - team expertise and budget are massive differentiators, we see this in lower formulae and Indycar where, even with everyone having the same materials, the bigger/richer/more organized teams almost always find their way to the front. But it IS a slap in the face of all other midfield teams who more or less develop their own cars. They can claim "convergent designs" all they want.

    You're suggesting that they have contravened the regulations yes? I await the findings of the governing body and subsequent punishment. Or more likely, you're wrong, and I await nothing much at all.

    Out of interest how is it you can accurately determine similarities between two different cars to the level of millimetres from some pictures? I thought that was impossible...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    astrofluff wrote: »
    How are people pronouncing Alpha Tauri... I thought it was Alpha 'Tour-ree' but I hear some media outlets saying Alpha Tower-ree. My Italian is non-existent btw!

    I think it is Alpha Taa-ree but I could be wrong. That's how I heard ten pronounce it on Sky anyway.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I have to say if just for this season I hope that imola is successful and gets back on the calendar as a replacement for China which has been postponed. Hopefully the coronavirus is under control by next year but this year it looks bad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I have to say if just for this season I hope that imola is successful and gets back on the calendar as a replacement for China which has been postponed. Hopefully the coronavirus is under control by next year but this year it looks bad.

    So is Imola on then?

    Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,395 ✭✭✭Harika


    AMKC wrote: »
    So is Imola on then?

    Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

    It's a pipedream, cannot see FIA drafting a new race in, while still unclear how to squeeze China in later this year. I would not bet that they actually will.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Harika wrote: »
    It's a pipedream, cannot see FIA drafting a new race in, while still unclear how to squeeze China in later this year. I would not bet that they actually will.

    Only time to do it is during the summer break in August?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭SureYWouldntYa


    AMKC wrote: »
    I think it is Alpha Taa-ree but I could be wrong. That's how I heard ten pronounce it on Sky anyway.

    Will Buxton on the F1 Youtube channel says it's Taw-ree, not Tau-ree as he says about 18 mins into the Paddock Pass video posted last night


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  • Registered Users Posts: 39,366 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    AMKC wrote: »
    So is Imola on then?

    Its called Covid-19 now. I agree hopefully by next year they have Covid-19 under control.

    Well no not yet but the owners of the track have applied to replace China for this year. I mean a couple of years ago it was supposed to be back but monza sorted out a deal(which I'm happy about btw) and the track is certified to hold an F1 race so why not ?


This discussion has been closed.
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