Do landlords in Ireland have it as tough as they think?

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 5:22pm #1

I think some landlords in Ireland have a tendency to play the poor mouth. In receipt of the biggest rents in the history of the state, yet they're very vocal about how they're mistreated by the government ect. I get that there needs to be more protection against bad tenants but anyone who has rented has encountered their own share of dodgy landlords too.

I think it grates on people that they're moaning about life during a housing crisis which ultimately benefits them and makes it harder for tenants even on a decent wage. I lived and rented in other countries and currently live in the UK and I have to say the standard of service is far higher in other places. One thing that Irish landlords never seemed to get is the fact that once they rent a property out it's someone else's residence. You don't get to turn up unannounced and walk around.

So to sum up the cool story bro I think that Irish landlords really shouldn't feel like the victims in the housing crisis. Yes some things could work better but as a group they could be doing a lot worse.

Zebra3 · 09-10-2018 5:27pm

If landlords have a problem there’s a simple solution.

Sell up and invest your money elsewhere.

Not interested in your whinging.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 5:33pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

If landlords have a problem there’s a simple solution.

Sell up and invest your money elsewhere.

Not interested in your whinging.

If they have a genuine problem like bad tenants and not enough legislation then fair enough, but the type of problems they talk about on Boards and other areas involve them not being able to walk in and out of a rented house over and over again.

wexie · 09-10-2018 5:36pm

I don't know, but from reading some of the threads lots of them are sure angry over something.

Yer Da sells Avon · 09-10-2018 5:36pm

Go onto the Accommodation & Property forum and you'll see people suggesting, in all seriousness, that landlords shouldn't be taxed on their income and that if you're renting a house, it isn't your home. If they have it tough at a time when they can effectively name their price, then it's not a sustainable business model and they should find a more productive way of earning a living.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 5:41pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Go onto the Accommodation & Property forum and you'll see people suggesting, in all seriousness, that landlords shouldn't be taxed on their income and that if you're renting a house, it isn't your home. If they have it tough at a time when they can effectively name their price, then it's not a sustainable business model and they should find a more productive way of earning a living.

This is it exactly. These sorts of LLs seem to have great pains to have to operate within a business whereby you can charge huge amounts of a person's wage, have to pay tax to the government and then actually not invade the tenants home once they're there.

Pkiernan · 09-10-2018 5:45pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

If jobdodgers have a problem there’s a simple solution.

Get a job lazybones.

Not interested in your whinging.

Here you go

Pkiernan · 09-10-2018 5:48pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I think some landlords in Ireland have a tendency to play the poor mouth. In receipt of the biggest rents in the history of the state, yet they're very vocal about how they're mistreated by the government ect. I get that there needs to be more protection against bad tenants but anyone who has rented has encountered their own share of dodgy landlords too.

I think it grates on people that they're moaning about life during a housing crisis which ultimately benefits them and makes it harder for tenants even on a decent wage. I lived and rented in other countries and currently live in the UK and I have to say the standard of service is far higher in other places. One thing that Irish landlords never seemed to get is the fact that once they rent a property out it's someone else's residence. You don't get to turn up unannounced and walk around.

So to sum up the cool story bro I think that Irish landlords really shouldn't feel like the victims in the housing crisis. Yes some things could work better but as a group they could be doing a lot worse.

When you leave college and save up for a property and rent it out and some rogue tenant screws you over you'll change your tune.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 5:51pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

When you leave college and save up for a property and rent it out and some rogue tenant screws you over you'll change your tune.

I worked all of my life in all sorts of jobs to put myself through college. Left home at 16 and paid for everything myself. I'm working and doing OK thanks. I've also encountered plenty of dodgy landlords who ripped me off when I could least afford it. So try to look at it from the tenants point of view.

I lived in a house with a nice landlord who did later fall victim to bad tenants so as I said in the OP there needs to be more protection there.

Pkiernan · 09-10-2018 5:54pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I worked all of my life in all sorts of jobs to put myself through college. Left home at 16 and paid for everything myself. I'm working and doing OK thanks. I've also encountered plenty of dodgy landlords who ripped me off when I could least afford it. So try to look at it from the tenants point of view.

I lived in a house with a nice landlord who did later fall victim to bad tenants so as I said in the OP there needs to be more protection there.

Roddy Doyle eat your heart out...

My last tenants point of view cost me 17000.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 6:00pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Roddy Doyle eat your heart out...

It was more Irvine Welsh than Doyle you'll find.

My last tenants point of view cost me 17000.

At least you've retained your sense of humor.

mikemac2 · 09-10-2018 6:02pm

There is a landlord on boards who proudly admits he evicts tenants every five months

It’s seems after six months something called Part IV rights kick in and the tenants are harder to evict

Doesn’t matter if you are an amazing tenant you get evicted after 5 months

Still blames the government for all the woe and strife in his property business sob sob

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 6:06pm

mikemac2 wrote: »

There is a landlord on boards who proudly admits he evicts tenants every five months

It’s seems after six months something called Part IV rights kick in and the tenants are harder to evict

Doesn’t matter if you are an amazing tenant you get evicted after 5 months

Still blames the government for all the woe and strife in his property business sob sob

What gets me is people complaining about government regulation. They usually say "how dare people tell me what to do with my own home". No, it's not just a home, it's a business if you want to rent it. When you rent out to other people it also becomes their place of residence. So yes protection is needed.

mikemac2 · 09-10-2018 6:09pm

Ah they pine for the days of Strumpet City

Sky King · 09-10-2018 6:14pm

I had a tenant run up thousands and thousands in rent arrears. On top of this I had to meet mortgage payments and pay my solicitor. I got on to the RTB (useless) then my local TD, the ombudsman.

Eventually the overstaying tenant vacated the property. he had wrecked the place.

Never again.

Not playing the poor mouth, the law is there to protect vulnerable tenants and I totally understand and agree with this need. But it doesn't protect landlords and it needs to. It is totally deficient in this regard.

The chickens have come home to roost because landlords are voting with their feet, and if I was still one, I would do the very same. Air BNB all the way. i don't owe anyone long term accommodation and if I choose to provide it I want to be protected by the law. As it currently stands I wouldn't be.

Yer Da sells Avon · 09-10-2018 6:23pm

Sky King wrote: »

Not playing the poor mouth, the law is there to protect vulnerable tenants and I totally understand and agree with this need. But it doesn't protect landlords and it needs to. It is totally deficient in this regard.

It doesn't seem to protect tenants very well either, considering (a) what we're currently paying, and (b) the absence of security of tenure. I live in dread of getting a phone call from my landlord, saying he's returning to Ireland and wants his apartment back. We really need a better system - one that makes it easier to kick someone out for not paying their rent, but also makes it impossible to kick someone out if they are paying their rent, abiding by the tenancy agreement, etc.

Turtwig · 09-10-2018 6:26pm

It's a bit of both some landlords think that property should be a risk free non taxable investment. Some tenants think they're entitled to whatever house they want and all their needs should be provided for by sources other than themselves.

Some landlords do have it tough an investment can go tits up. A tenant may damage their property. Likewise so do tenants have it tough. The problem right now is an overwhelming number of tenants have it tougher but the appetite for landlords to supply tenements is dwindling. Making things even worse.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 6:32pm

Sky King wrote: »

I had a tenant run up thousands and thousands in rent arrears. On top of this I had to meet mortgage payments and pay my solicitor. I got on to the RTB (useless) then my local TD, the ombudsman.

Eventually the overstaying tenant vacated the property. he had wrecked the place.

Never again.

Not playing the poor mouth, the law is there to protect vulnerable tenants and I totally understand and agree with this need. But it doesn't protect landlords and it needs to. It is totally deficient in this regard.

The chickens have come home to roost because landlords are voting with their feet, and if I was still one, I would do the very same. Air BNB all the way. i don't owe anyone long term accommodation and if I choose to provide it I want to be protected by the law. As it currently stands I wouldn't be.

I really don't see how it's in the interest of tenants in general or landlords in general to not be able to evict tenants who refuse (as opposed to are unable) to pay rent. There should be more protection there and then a more deserving tenant would get a house.

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 6:34pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It doesn't seem to protect tenants very well either, considering (a) what we're currently paying, and (b) the absence of security of tenure. I live in dread of getting a phone call from my landlord, saying he's returning to Ireland and wants his apartment back. We really need a better system - one that makes it easier to kick someone out for not paying their rent, but also makes it impossible to kick someone out if they are paying their rent, abiding by the tenancy agreement, etc.

The selling the house line is often used by landlords to get the tenant to vacate. Often times not even intending to sell the house.

wexie · 09-10-2018 6:38pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I really don't see how it's in the interest of tenants in general or landlords in general to not be able to evict tenants who refuse (as opposed to are unable) to pay rent.

It's not, it's not in anyone's interest other than the government agencies that would then have to deal with said evicted tenant and try to find them somewhere else. When they already know there isn't anywhere else.

From what (admittedly little) I know the whole system is....I don't know I want to say archaic but it's more than that, it's backward.

There is very little protection for tenants to protect them from bad landlords and equally very little protection for landlords to protect them from bad tenants.

oceanman · 09-10-2018 6:42pm

wexie wrote: »

I don't know, but from reading some of the threads lots of them are sure angry over something.

like farmers are always angry over something.....just ignore them

engiweirdo · 09-10-2018 6:51pm

Irish people seem to have this weird concept that if you purchase a house with a mortgage, you should be entitled to cover the mortgage via the rent plus a nice bit of profit AND have the asset at the end to further profit from. And sure why wouldnt they? They are readily enabled by whatever government is in charge in this mentality. Greedy shower of baxtards to a man/woman.

Laois_Man · 09-10-2018 6:54pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

Irish people seem to have this weird concept that if you purchase a house with a mortgage, you should be entitled to cover the mortgage via the rent plus a nice bit of profit AND have the asset at the end to further profit from. And sure why wouldnt they? They are readily enabled by whatever government is in charge in this mentality. Greedy shower of baxtards to a man/woman.

2 assumptions there!

1) That there is any profit after monthly mortgage payments
2) That the value of the property at the end of the mortgage is more than the purchase price

Many MANY times, neither case is true! But taxation doesn't take any of it into account!

engiweirdo · 09-10-2018 7:11pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

2 assumptions there!

1) That there is any profit after monthly mortgage payments
2) That the value of the property at the end of the mortgage is more than the purchase price

Many MANY times, neither case is true! But taxation doesn't take any of it into account!

To both: So what. Its an investment not a gaurantee. Oh to have an administration with the balls to reduce rents to the levels they should be at. Having it off and still moaning. Should probably pay more tax on it as you've clearly too much money if you've spare houses to rent out while a generation cant afford a home.

Laois_Man · 09-10-2018 7:20pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

To both: So what. Its an investment not a gaurantee. Oh to have an administration with the balls to reduce rents to the levels they should be at. Having it off and still moaning. Should probably pay more tax on it as you've clearly too much money if you've spare houses to rent out while a generation cant afford a home.

Another 2 assumptions

3) That the house is an investment
4) That it’s a “spare house”

Ever hear of the term “accidental landlord”?

steddyeddy · 09-10-2018 7:24pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

2 assumptions there!

1) That there is any profit after monthly mortgage payments
2) That the value of the property at the end of the mortgage is more than the purchase price

Many MANY times, neither case is true! But taxation doesn't take any of it into account!

That covers a lot of jobs to be honest.

engiweirdo · 09-10-2018 7:36pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

Another 2 assumptions

3) That the house is an investment
4) That it’s a “spare house”

Ever hear of the term “accidental landlord”?

Ever heard of the term "cut your losses". No entitlement to profit or even break even. Pure greed.

Church on Tuesday · 09-10-2018 7:42pm

Sorry most landlords are gangsters, speaking from vast experience here.

It's a business for them, it's not done out of the kindness of their heart.

It's a virtual goldmine for them. Have you ever met a poor landlord? I haven't.

No sympathy for landlords either who let a place out only to have tenants fall back on their rent or wreck the place. Ask for a reference, most people who are decent have a work, or at the very least character reference, then cross reference that reference. That's your responsibility.

Laois_Man · 09-10-2018 7:42pm

engiweirdo wrote: »

Ever heard of the term "cut your losses". No entitlement to profit or even break even. Pure greed.

How exactly is someone whose house is worth €100,000 less than the purchase price going to “cut losses” if they are an accidental landlord? Do you think the bank is gonna take that €100,000 loss out of the goodness of their hearts?

gaius c · 09-10-2018 7:43pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

2 assumptions there!

1) That there is any profit after monthly mortgage payments

You're confusing cashflow with profit/loss.

gaius c · 09-10-2018 7:44pm

Laois_Man wrote: »

How exactly is someone whose house is worth €100,000 less than the purchase price going to “cut losses” if they are an accidental landlord? Do you think the bank is gonna take that €100,000 loss out of the goodness of their hearts?

Why should the taxpayer subsidise your accidental/bad investment?

Do landlords in Ireland have it as tough as they think?

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