De'Longhi Magnifica Bean to Cup Espresso/Cappuccino Maker £199

Joekers · 09-07-2019 9:15pm

murphyebass wrote: »

I assume you run a small coffee shop business?

If not that coffee will be very stale by the time you get through it unless you have a severe coffee addiction.

Out of curiosity what roast profile is it? Light, medium or burnt to a crisp?

How long would coffee beans generally last once opened ?

bromley52 · 09-07-2019 9:18pm

murphyebass wrote: »

I assume you run a small coffee shop business?

If not that coffee will be very stale by the time you get through it unless you have a severe coffee addiction.

Out of curiosity what roast profile is it? Light, medium or burnt to a crisp?

They are not all for me. I'm keeping 4 packets. W r.t roast I don't know yet.

murphyebass · 10-07-2019 5:44am

Joekers wrote: »

How long would coffee beans generally last once opened ?

You want to be using beans 2-4 weeks after they were roasted. They degrade rapidly after that. Most people don’t bulk buy coffee for this reason.

Very cheap coffee all the same. Although I’d be concerned over the roast profile. Most cheap coffee is roasted to a crisp. Dark, burnt. Not for me. A select few so like this style but for me it looses all its flavour.

bromley52 · 10-07-2019 8:05am

If anyone in Cork city wants a packet at cost PM me or check out Adverts.

stimpson · 10-07-2019 8:33am

murphyebass wrote: »

I assume you run a small coffee shop business?

If not that coffee will be very stale by the time you get through it unless you have a severe coffee addiction.

Out of curiosity what roast profile is it? Light, medium or burnt to a crisp?

Whole beans freeze very well.

banie01 · 10-07-2019 10:11am

Just went to pull the trigger on the discountcoffee deal and out of stock

Balls!

banie01 · 11-07-2019 4:59am

banie01 wrote: »

Just went to pull the trigger on the discountcoffee deal and out of stock
Balls!

Happy to report I managed to place an order for 12kg this morning

As I'm the only coffee drinker in my house, it's safe to say I'm sorted for the next 12months or so

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 7:13am

stimpson wrote: »

Whole beans freeze very well.

They do to a certain extent. If they are frozen very quickly after the roast date, which by all accounts doesn’t seem to be mentioned here.

Probably more worrying is the thawing process before use as obviously moisture is introduced after freezing.

Personally I don’t bother freezing as good beans, lightly roasted, within the last few weeks don’t tend to be cheap.

Buy within a week of the roast date (don’t buy without a roast date) and use within 2-4 of said roast date.

For your average joe soap freezing will just end up a mess with broken grinders, moist beans, etc

Esse85 · 11-07-2019 7:39am

Just pulled the trigger now for 12kg

€5.50kg is great value.

Will sell at cost price in South Dublin, 2kg minimum purchase.
PM if interested.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 4:07pm

murphyebass wrote: »

They do to a certain extent. If they are frozen very quickly after the roast date, which by all accounts doesn’t seem to be mentioned here.

Probably more worrying is the thawing process before use as obviously moisture is introduced after freezing.

Personally I don’t bother freezing as good beans, lightly roasted, within the last few weeks don’t tend to be cheap.

Buy within a week of the roast date (don’t buy without a roast date) and use within 2-4 of said roast date.

For your average joe soap freezing will just end up a mess with broken grinders, moist beans, etc

There is no roast date, but the best before on this batch is June 2020. When I order, the date is always just under 12 months away. The production code is 19 063 which points to week 3, June 2019. I've no doubt these are fresh beans, and the fact that they were temporarily sold out point to the fact that they are not sitting around for weeks. These guys are supplying cafes and do serious volume. It's not sitting on a supermarket shelf for weeks.

As for freezing itself, I'm not sure how you figure moisture is introduced? How does it get into a sealed bag? There is very little moisture content in a roasted bean to expand and break down the cell structure. Holding period frozen is in terms of years and the post roast day that you freeze the coffee will be the same when you thaw the coffee. These 2 week old beans will be 2 week old beans when they are thawed.

The process is a piece of piss. Freeze in the bag when you get them. Remove and defrost overnight before opening the bag. use an airtight container to hold your defrosted beans. Don't refreeze.

I've been doing it for years after seeing it recommended by Scott Rao and I defy you to tell the difference between frozen and non frozen.

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 8:11pm

stimpson wrote: »

There is no roast date, but the best before on this batch is June 2020. When I order, the date is always just under 12 months away. The production code is 19 063 which points to week 3, June 2019. I've no doubt these are fresh beans, and the fact that they were temporarily sold out point to the fact that they are not sitting around for weeks. These guys are supplying cafes and do serious volume. It's not sitting on a supermarket shelf for weeks.

As for freezing itself, I'm not sure how you figure moisture is introduced? How does it get into a sealed bag? There is very little moisture content in a roasted bean to expand and break down the cell structure. Holding period frozen is in terms of years and the post roast day that you freeze the coffee will be the same when you thaw the coffee. These 2 week old beans will be 2 week old beans when they are thawed.

The process is a piece of piss. Freeze in the bag when you get them. Remove and defrost overnight before opening the bag. use an airtight container to hold your defrosted beans. Don't refreeze.

I've been doing it for years after seeing it recommended by Scott Rao and I defy you to tell the difference between frozen and non frozen.

Not sure what happened there, lost my post, probably post twice now.

Anyway. To answer your points.

If you’re right with your roast dates, sounds good. I would still guess it’s a very dark roast that isn’t to my taste. Bias for me there to lighly roasted coffee.

As for freezing and thawing. Firstly all food degrades over time. Coffee is no different. A few months in the freezer will not deliver the same flavour as freshly roasted no matter how try and convince yourself.

Moreover considering most people don’t know how to thaw chicken properly yes I would be concerned that they’ll introduce moisture to the process at either the front or back end of the process along with potentially breaking grinders with moist or frozen beans.

I’m not saying you specifically don’t know what they’re at. You obviously do. But most people won’t. They’ll leave beans in the freezer for a year or two and then take them out, make an arse of how to thaw them correctly and wonder why they’re not nice. That’s most people.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 8:39pm

murphyebass wrote: »

.

As for freezing and thawing. Firstly all food degrades over time. Coffee is no different. A few months in the freezer will not deliver the same flavour as freshly roasted no matter how try and convince yourself.

The degradation process slows down by a massive amount when you freeze. The degradation is caused by oils evaporating and volatile compounds escaping. Freezing does a number of things.

Firstly, the lack of moisture in the bean makes it ideal. Most issues with freezing food happens when water freezes and expands and it breaks down the cell walls. That can’t happen in coffee. Secondly, the oils contract into the bean when it’s frozen, protecting them from breaking down. And thirdly, by dropping the temperature, the volatile compounds that give coffee aroma and flavour are prevented from escaping.

Like I said, I read about it in a Scott Rao book (And he’s probably forgotten more about coffee than I’ll ever know) and he tells a story about finding beans he had frozen years previously in his parents house. Instead of tossing them he defrosted and brewed and was amazed at how well they held up. I think it was 4 or 5 years in the freezer.

And it’s as simple as freezing in the unopened bag and defrosting before opening. I suggest you try it yourself.

bromley52 · 11-07-2019 8:46pm

I have 6kgs of coffee that I got for €33 with an exp of Jun2020. 4 in the freezer and 2 ready to go. I'm delighted.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 8:50pm

And a quick google turns up this: https://www.home-barista.com/store-coffee-in-freezer.html

A large sample blind randomised testing by coffee nerds, with fresh beans, 4 weeks frozen beans and 8 weeks frozen beans. Result: no perceptible difference when cupped.

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 8:50pm

stimpson wrote: »

The degradation process slows down by a massive amount when you freeze. The degradation is caused by oils evaporating and volatile compounds escaping. Freezing does a number of things.

Firstly, the lack of moisture in the bean makes it ideal. Most issues with freezing food happens when water freezes and expands and it breaks down the cell walls. That can’t happen in coffee. Secondly, the oils contract into the bean when it’s frozen, protecting them from breaking down. And thirdly, by dropping the temperature, the volatile compounds that give coffee aroma and flavour are prevented from escaping.

Like I said, I read about it in a Scott Rao book (And he’s probably forgotten more about coffee than I’ll ever know) and he tells a story about finding beans he had frozen years previously in his parents house. Instead of tossing them he defrosted and brewed and was amazed at how well they held up. I think it was 4 or 5 years in the freezer.

And it’s as simple as freezing in the unopened bag and defrosting before opening. I suggest you try it yourself.

Thanks for the suggesting I try something you don’t know if I’ve tried or not.

For what it’s worth I have tried it, but It doesn’t suit what I want as I’ve already said in good quality lightly roasted beans.

Yet again I didn’t say you couldn’t do it. I said most people won’t do it. Think of the thawing chicken analogy.

And yes food degrades slower in a freezer but it still degrades.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 8:58pm

murphyebass wrote: »

Thanks for the suggesting I try something you don’t know if I’ve tried or not.

You had already said you don’t do it.

And yes food degrades slower in a freezer but it still degrades.

Your coffee is degrading regardless. Preground degrades faster than whole bean. Whole bean degrades faster than frozen whole bean. Freezing 5 or 6 kilos for 2 or 3 months is not going to make any perceptible difference in the quality of the cupping.

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 9:14pm

stimpson wrote: »

You had already said you don’t do it.

Your coffee is degrading regardless. Preground degrades faster than whole bean. Whole bean degrades faster than frozen whole bean. Freezing 5 or 6 kilos for 2 or 3 months is not going to make any perceptible difference in the quality of the cupping.

Don’t do it doesn’t mean I haven’t tried it in the past. It’s not like this is a new ground breaking technique your putting out here.

I disagree with your thoughts on cupping after 2/3 months frozen vs fresh.

Again if done right it’s not a bad process, but it doesn’t come without its hazards and issues for most wannabe home baristas.

You’re clearly a fan and that’s fine.

I’m not against it but I definately don’t think it’s for everybody.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 9:20pm

murphyebass wrote: »

Don’t do it doesn’t mean I haven’t tried it in the past. It’s not like this is a new ground breaking technique your putting out here.

I disagree with your thoughts on cupping after 2/3 months frozen vs fresh.

Again if done right it’s not a bad process, but it doesn’t come without its hazards and issues for most wannabe home baristas.

You’re clearly a fan and that’s fine.

I’m not against it but I definately don’t think it’s for everybody.

The test I posted showed no perceivable difference after 2 months.

Fair enough,it’s not for you, but I’ve recommended it for people who have just ordered 12kg of coffee for a bean to cup machine. It’s certainly going to be better than storing in a cupboard.

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 9:24pm

stimpson wrote: »

The test I posted showed no perceivable difference after 2 months.

Fair enough,it’s not for you, but I’ve recommended it for people who have just ordered 12kg of coffee for a bean to cup machine. It’s certainly going to be better than storing in a cupboard.

“No perceivable difference”......... This is in your opinion. I disagree.

I’m not saying it’s a bad idea but I think the execution in most circumstances will be less than favourable for most people.

Graham · 11-07-2019 9:27pm

Has anyone tried the coffee yet (frozen or unfrozen)?

Curious to know what it's like

stimpson · 11-07-2019 9:31pm

murphyebass wrote: »

“No perceivable difference”......... This is in your opinion. I disagree.

It’s from that blind testing I posted the link to.

murphyebass · 11-07-2019 9:44pm

stimpson wrote: »

It’s from that blind testing I posted the link to.

And there’s many other videos online to show the direct opposite of that. So what?

Esse85 · 11-07-2019 9:45pm

Is it next day delivery?
Shoukd have mine tomorrow.

stimpson · 11-07-2019 11:43pm

murphyebass wrote: »

And there’s many other videos online to show the direct opposite of that. So what?

Here’s a great one. It’s a scientist talking about degassing and freshness and from 39 minutes in he talks specifically about freezing. The highlights are:

- no changes to the structure of the bean due to freezing (due to lack of moisture)
- CO2 degassing greatly slowed down compared to room temp (12 times slower)
- aromatics naturally much slower than CO2 leaving the beans
- degassing profile of thawed beans is exactly the same as that of fresh beans
- method used was freezing in standard sealed valve bags. Allow to get to room temp before opening

The main takeaway was that there is no difference in the chemical makeup or structure of the bean, and that due to the degassing rate 1-4 week old fresh beans are analogous to 3-12 month frozen beans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhsLtIIxNTo

I’ve said my bit now and am aware it’s Bargain Alerts. I’m happy to debate it over on Tea and Coffee.

sweetie · 15-07-2019 1:33pm

Cheers to Stimpson for doing the heavy lifting and sorting me out with 6kg of magic beans!

Zimmerframe · 15-07-2019 5:10pm

Did anyone actually drink this coffee yet ?

Verdict?

banie01 · 15-07-2019 5:12pm

Zimmerframe wrote: »

Did anyone actually drink this coffee yet ?

Verdict?

Bumping this thread on Prime Day!

You evil bollox! :pac:

jam_mac_jam · 15-07-2019 5:14pm

224 GBP for the 4200.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-ESAM-4200-S-Silver/dp/B001EOMZ5E?ref_=Oct_DLandingS_PC_40e740a6_0&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

stimpson · 15-07-2019 7:27pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

224 GBP for the 4200.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Magnifica-ESAM-4200-S-Silver/dp/B001EOMZ5E?ref_=Oct_DLandingS_PC_40e740a6_0&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

And this looks good at £289:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Autentica-29-620-SB-Silver-Black/dp/B00NSWPB42?ref_=Oct_DLandingS_PC_40e740a6_4&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Zimmerframe · 15-07-2019 9:51pm

banie01 wrote: »

Bumping this thread on Prime Day!

You evil bollox! :pac:

Isn't there a free hamper too. ?

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/G/02/_AVS/316766/Hamper_Value_Add_-_TCs_2019._CB467480619_.pdf

De'Longhi Magnifica Bean to Cup Espresso/Cappuccino Maker £199

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