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Rock on, Rockall! (it's back)

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Comments

  • #632
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Which bit of the common fisheries rules was it when the french chased British and Irish fishing boats away in international waters over scallop fishing?What exactly do you think they will do?:rolleyes:

    I have no doubt at all that they might ignore any legal rulings they don't like.

    But you first as you said it...what exactly is Scotland going to do after the first arrest and boats keep coming...open fire? :D:D:D


  • #633
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Its only a rock FFS :D


  • #634
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have no doubt at all that they might ignore any legal rulings they don't like.

    But you first as you said it...what exactly is Scotland going to do after the first arrest and boats keep coming...open fire? :D:D:D

    Arr well francie,unlike you I don`t have a crystal ball to see into the future but as I`ve said I hope it can be amicably resolved and they both fish there peacefully.


  • #635
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    And being of Ulster descent francie why would I want to argue with you-my Ulster brethren?;)


  • #636
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Arr well francie,unlike you I don`t have a crystal ball to see into the future but as I`ve said I hope it can be amicably resolved and they both fish there peacefully.

    You said, 'Ireland may have bitten off more than it can chew with Scotland' don't be coy, you have some inkling of you can say that of the future. What have you seen Rob?


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  • #637
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,747 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    mikeym wrote: »
    Its only a rock FFS :D

    Good point. We need to see some Rockall fish and Rockall prawns on the menu, so we know what we're fighting for.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #638
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You said, 'Ireland may have bitten off more than it can chew with Scotland' don't be coy, you have some inkling of you can say that of the future. What have you seen Rob?

    I see a lot of posturing and blustering then it`ll be fine between Scotland/Britain and Ireland and all parties will claim they won.:o


  • #639
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    There's a bit of confusion around the "habitation" thing, so here it is.
    A country can project a 200 mile economic exclusion zone (EEZ) out across the sea from its outermost inhabited coast or island. That in itself does not give exclusive fishing rights, but it gives first dibs on oil and gas wells, and gives extra weight to claims of ownership of any uninhabited islands within that zone.
    On this basis, Rockall is within the UK's EEZ.


    Rockall is above sea level at low tide, therefore it counts as "land".

    So, because it is within their EEZ, and having landed on it and laid claim to this "land" for The Crown, as "land" it automatically generates its own 12 mile limit (as any claimed piece of land does, whether it is inhabited or not) This provides Rockall with exclusive fishing rights, regardless of whether the UK is inside the EU or outside it.
    The northern waters of the UK are administered by the Scottish govt, who have 3 of their own fishing patrol vessels. But these can also call for back up from the RN whenever they need it, because Scotland is in the UK.


    The Irish position is to say sure its only a rock, nobody owns it, lets all share the fish.


    Meanwhile, Brussels is staying very, very quiet.


  • #640
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I see a lot of posturing and blustering then it`ll be fine between Scotland/Britain and Ireland and all parties will claim they won.:o

    So they haven't bitten off more than it can chew.

    Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:


  • #641
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So they haven't bitten off more than it can chew.

    Thanks for clearing that up. :rolleyes:

    Like I said,I can`t predict the future-that`s the best I can guess at-what do you see happening?


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  • #642
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Like I said,I can`t predict the future-
    You did Rob, when you theorised that Ireland might have bitten off more than it can chew. :rolleyes:
    that`s the best I can guess at-what do you see happening?

    What you just did..Scotland will continue rowing back...excuse the pun etc.


  • #643
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You did Rob, when you theorised that Ireland might have bitten off more than it can chew. :rolleyes:


    What you just did..Scotland will continue rowing back...excuse the pun etc.

    Theorise means to speculate which is a guess in my book.I can`t say what the Scots will do-they do their own thing and have their own laws don`t you know!;)
    I understand Westminster has urged caution but it`s their call I believe.


  • #644
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    Theorise means to speculate which is a guess in my book.

    Like the 'crystal ball' you claim is exclusive to me. :rolleyes::rolleyes:


  • #645
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    It doesn't look like this is going down well in Scotland at all. Some people are using it to attack Nicola for starting a fight over a rock. Also Irish fishermen are saying there's no animosity from Scottish fishermen towards them.


  • #646
    RobMc59
    Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Like the 'crystal ball' you claim is exclusive to me. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    No,you genuinely believe you can see into the future,especially over a UI.:eek:


  • #647
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    No,you genuinely believe you can see into the future,especially over a UI.:eek:

    Like you, I have an 'opinion' on what might happen. Unlike you I don't deny it when asked to explain.


  • #648
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    recedite wrote: »
    There's a bit of confusion around the "habitation" thing, so here it is.
    A country can project a 200 mile economic exclusion zone (EEZ) out across the sea from its outermost inhabited coast or island. That in itself does not give exclusive fishing rights, but it gives first dibs on oil and gas wells, and gives extra weight to claims of ownership of any uninhabited islands within that zone.
    On this basis, Rockall is within the UK's EEZ.


    Rockall is above sea level at low tide, therefore it counts as "land".

    So, because it is within their EEZ, and having landed on it and laid claim to this "land" for The Crown, as "land" it automatically generates its own 12 mile limit (as any claimed piece of land does, whether it is inhabited or not) This provides Rockall with exclusive fishing rights, regardless of whether the UK is inside the EU or outside it.
    The northern waters of the UK are administered by the Scottish govt, who have 3 of their own fishing patrol vessels. But these can also call for back up from the RN whenever they need it, because Scotland is in the UK.


    The Irish position is to say sure its only a rock, nobody owns it, lets all share the fish.


    Meanwhile, Brussels is staying very, very quiet.

    The Irish, Danish and Icelandic position is that they do not recognise the validity of the UK claim of Rockall soverignty therefore the 12nm exclusion zone around Rockall is not valid. The UN CLCS has not adjudicated on it therefore there appears to be nothing illegal (in EU terms) in fishing in the EEZ as per the CFP


  • #649
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Scots really don't realise the importance of songs in a war. Songs stir a people in their deepest soul.
    Maybe not, but they always appreciated the importance of being sober before the start of a battle.
    As somebody once said about the Irish and their ballads "all their songs are sad, but all their wars were merry".


  • #650
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,747 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    It doesn't look like this is going down well in Scotland at all. Some people are using it to attack Nicola for starting a fight over a rock. Also Irish fishermen are saying there's no animosity from Scottish fishermen towards them.

    That's not the kinda talk that will get us a war.

    I'll get the ball rolling... If Scotland played Rockall at football, they'd still lose.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #651
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    The Irish, Danish and Icelandic position is that they do not recognise the validity of the UK claim of Rockall soverignty therefore the 12nm exclusion zone around Rockall is not valid. The UN CLCS has not adjudicated on it therefore there appears to be nothing illegal (in EU terms) in fishing in the EEZ as per the CFP
    Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.
    Sovereignty is a difficult thing to prove. I think, at the end of the day, if you control a piece of land, you have proved your sovereignty over it.
    It stands to reason then, that the Scots/Brits will need to exert more control over the area, if there is some doubt about its sovereignty.


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  • #652
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    At least they could spell. They did not rob Hong Kong. The people of Hong Kong were very grateful for everything the British brought them.

    Mother of God, is there no stopping you and this lamentably benighted twaddle? Do you mean they should be grateful for the drugs? Loads, and loads and loads of drugs supplied by the biggest drug dealer on the planet, your beloved British Empire? You do know that the British got possession of Hong Kong under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842 as a reward for winning the First Opium War, a war the British initiated to defend their rights to... you guessed it... deal drugs in the face of massive Chinese objections to growing drug problems in China?

    Hilarious that you're so terrifyingly blinkered that you're trying to dress up your favourite state in the world as a civilising influence, even when it's the superstar drug dealer of the 19th century.

    New York Times: How Britain went to war with China over opium (3 July 2018)


  • #653
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.
    Sovereignty is a difficult thing to prove. I think, at the end of the day, if you control a piece of land, you have proved your sovereignty over it.
    It stands to reason then, that the Scots/Brits will need to exert more control over the area, if there is some doubt about its sovereignty.

    Well that's your reasoning not the UN's or anyone's for that matter. That would give Russia sovereignty over the Crimea and the IRA sovereignty over Free Derry as it was called. It's more than just whoever can exercise the most brute force. Control means control and nothing more.


  • #654
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Mother of God, is there no stopping you and this lamentably benighted twaddle? Do you mean they should be grateful for the drugs? Loads, and loads and loads of drugs supplied by the biggest drug dealer on the planet, your beloved British Empire? You do know that the British got possession of Hong Kong under the Treaty of Nanking in 1842 as a reward for winning the First O

    You are taking a quotation from a day or two ago out of context. By the time the British left Hong Kong when their lease expired in 1997, they had transformed it into a great economic hub, a city so great that it was comparable in many ways to New York and London. That was in complete contrast to China in the mid and late 20th century.


  • #655
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,965 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, they would say that, wouldn't they.
    Sovereignty is a difficult thing to prove. I think, at the end of the day, if you control a piece of land, you have proved your sovereignty over it.
    It stands to reason then, that the Scots/Brits will need to exert more control over the area, if there is some doubt about its sovereignty.

    Yes they would say that as the current position is that the UK claim on Rockall is not internationally recognised


  • #656
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    No,you genuinely believe you can see into the future,especially over a UI.:eek:
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Like you, I have an 'opinion' on what might happen. Unlike you I don't deny it when asked to explain.


    lol Francie, you have an opinion all right. If it was 80 years ago, you would be urging your Republican comrade Sean Russell to side with the Nazis, which he did, and you would have been predicting the total destruction of the evil and dastardly British during the war. If it was the 1970s, you would have been predicting the victory of the IRA within a very short while and a united Ireland.


  • #657
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,686 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    RobMc59 wrote:
    Saying Ireland spat out it`s dummy is no reason to be offended and Britain has`nt changed it`s attitude to Rockall-I`m glad the Taoiseach has seen sense and recognises whose jurisdiction Rockall comes under and that Ireland is on borrowed time fishing there although personally I would prefer Britain and Ireland to jointly fish there.

    Did you even read the article that you quoted in your post?

    At no point did it mention that Leo recognised Rockall jurisdiction as being British. He simply pointed out that things may change after Brexit which is totally correct.


  • #658
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    lol Francie, you have an opinion all right. If it was 80 years ago, you would be urging your Republican comrade Sean Russell to side with the Nazis, which he did, and you would have been predicting the total destruction of the evil and dastardly British during the war. If it was the 1970s, you would have been predicting the victory of the IRA within a very short while and a united Ireland.

    Seems irrational to critise someone for something theyve not said?


  • #659
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Seems irrational to critise someone for something theyve not said?

    I am jokinging speculating what Francis the psychics positiion would have been had he been around early in WW2, or early during the troubles, seeing as he always defended the Republican position in those struggles, and is always predicting the downfall of the despised British in Brexit etc. As RobMc said of Francie, he genuinely believes he
    can see into the future,especially over a UI !


  • #660
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,740 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Seems irrational to critise someone for something theyve not said?

    There is an extraordinary mind at work there blaaz.

    How desperate is janfebmar for a cogent argument to have to invent all of those lies, not mention take the time to type it all out. :D:D


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  • #661
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I am jokinging speculating what Francis the psychics positiion would have been had he been around early in WW2, or early during the troubles, seeing as he always defended the Republican position in those struggles, and is always predicting the downfall of the despised British in Brexit etc.

    Deosnt seem remotely rational though tho??


    If you have to imagine up scenarios to critise someone...maybe the thread has run its course?


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