Wall anchors & plasterboard/dry lining walls!

run_Forrest_run · 15-01-2007 9:29am #1

Hi All,
First let me say I'm not the best at DIY of any sort! Recently I purchased a pair of loudspeakers (bookshelf types) and I bought special wall brackets for putting them up on a wall. The speakers weigh 7kg each.

Now the plugs (8mm) I received with the brackets were the standard types, maybe suitable for block or wood but since I am only going into plasterboard/dry lining I went out and bought some hollow wall anchors (you know the ones that supposedly expand their legs for grip behind the wall). Anyway I quickly realised these anchors were not going to work because I was screwing the anchor in the grips along the edge of the anchor was tearing away the plaster and just loosening the cavity! I took the anchor out and saw that the legs/wings had not expanded at all!

So this is where I left it for now as I am unsure if the original supplied wall plugs will be enough for holding the weight of the loudspeaker over time..bearing in mind speakers will be vibrating due to bass etc..and this could maybe loosen things.

So can anyone suggest anything here? I thought of maybe finding the studs behind the wall but then the speakers would not be at equal distances in the room and it would result in unbalanced sound/looks!

Any feedback would be great!

smashey · 15-01-2007 9:47am

Moved to Gardening/DIY.

loyatemu · 15-01-2007 10:57am

do not use the supplied plugs - they won't hold something that heavy in plasterboard.

I assume you were trying to use something like this:
http://tinyurl.com/ylntgq
I've used these successfully in the past though I've noticed that if you over-tighten them they can start to dig into the plasterboard from the back and eventually pull through

you might want to try something like this
http://tinyurl.com/y9vf5n
they're awkward to use (you have to pull the fitting towards you as you are screwing in) but they are designed for holding up heavy objects.

I hate plasterboard - its a bugger to hang things on. Even if you do have the right fittings, half the time you drill in and find that theres wood or concrete behind the board, or its double-thickness plaster and the fixings don't fit.

run_Forrest_run · 15-01-2007 11:23am

yes I was trying to use the anchors in the first url you posted. Yeah I saw those other spring toggle anchors in the shop, maybe I will try those...I am running out of holes at this stage!

If I was to drill more holes close to the existing ones is there any way I could be reducing the strength of the plasterboard in the affected area??

I am nearly also thinking of cutting my losses and getting someone in to put up a shelf properly by drilling thru into the timber behind (timber frame house) and put my speakers up on those shelves.
what do U think?

CJhaughey · 15-01-2007 11:39am

I would locate the stud behind the plasterboard and screw directly into that with #5*50mm screws this will hold a lot of weight.
I would not drill into the stud just screw into it.

loyatemu · 15-01-2007 11:40am

i doubt you'd be able to drill into the actual frame of the house, but you may be able to screw into the wooden studs that the plasterboard is fixed to. this might be a better idea than using plasterboard fixings.

what do kitchen fitters use to hold up cupboards on plasterboard walls - anyone here know?

run_Forrest_run · 15-01-2007 11:54am

OK, thanks for that folks. I might have chance to ask a kitchen fitter that exact question soon as I am also waiting on a call from him to do some work in my kitchen...while he is there I might nab him for some extra work. It will cost me I'm sure but I would not rest easy knowing my brand new Mission speakers could come tumbling to their demise at any stage...especially when I have a toddler in the house..not worth the risk.

OK, into the studs it is!

dubtom · 15-01-2007 12:15pm

loyatemu wrote:

i doubt you'd be able to drill into the actual frame of the house, but you may be able to screw into the wooden studs that the plasterboard is fixed to. this might be a better idea than using plasterboard fixings.

what do kitchen fitters use to hold up cupboards on plasterboard walls - anyone here know?

Kitchen cabinets are too heavy for plasterboard imo,they would always need grounds of some discription behind the board, be it wood or block.
I was attempting to hang a curtain rail the other day in a fairly new build apartment. A 4'' gap between the board and the wall makes it near impossible. I cannot understand why builders don't put wood where they know heavy curtains will go, one lenght of 3x2 along the top of the window would be enough, then the board stuck over it.

run_Forrest_run · 15-01-2007 12:18pm

dubtom wrote:

Kitchen cabinets are too heavy for plasterboard imo,they would always need grounds of some discription behind the board, be it wood or block.
I was attempting to hang a curtain rail the other day in a fairly new build apartment. A 4'' gap between the board and the wall makes it near impossible. I cannot understand why builders don't put wood where they know heavy curtains will go, one lenght of 3x2 along the top of the window would be enough, then the board stuck over it.

good point...I had the same problem with hanging curtains couple of years ago and I know I will have the same problem again soon in the place I'm in now.

can anyone recommend a decent stud finder? I used to have a gadget that said it would find studs, metal or current but it was useless...maybe too cheap or something..it was very inconsistent.

loyatemu · 15-01-2007 4:46pm

dubtom wrote:

Kitchen cabinets are too heavy for plasterboard imo,they would always need grounds of some discription behind the board, be it wood or block.
I was attempting to hang a curtain rail the other day in a fairly new build apartment. A 4'' gap between the board and the wall makes it near impossible. I cannot understand why builders don't put wood where they know heavy curtains will go, one lenght of 3x2 along the top of the window would be enough, then the board stuck over it.

I've hung loads of curtains using plasterboard fixings and never had them pull out.

FrankGrimes · 15-01-2007 6:42pm

I've to hang some fairly heavy curtains in my bedroom and am wondering what fixings to use as it's concrete block walls with foam backed slab on them (40mm foam insulation with 1/2" plasterboard stuck to it). I don't think the plasterboard fixings that expand behind the plasterboard will work due to the foam.

I want to get a good solid bond as the curtains are quite heavy, but would prefer not to have to cut a hole, express anchor some timber to the blocks, and screw into the timber - any ideas?

hiscan · 15-01-2007 11:28pm

FrankGrimes wrote:

I've to hang some fairly heavy curtains in my bedroom and am wondering what fixings to use as it's concrete block walls with foam backed slab on them (40mm foam insulation with 1/2" plasterboard stuck to it). I don't think the plasterboard fixings that expand behind the plasterboard will work due to the foam.

I want to get a good solid bond as the curtains are quite heavy, but would prefer not to have to cut a hole, express anchor some timber to the blocks, and screw into the timber - any ideas?

put the wall plug into the hole at the top of the express anchor and screw into that then you wont need the timber this is how i hung the radiators in my house that i also drylined the same way as yourself

run_Forrest_run · 16-01-2007 11:09am

out of interest, has anyone used plugs called 'plasplugs' before? A friend used them to hang a TV bracket on a plasterboard wall and he seems happy with them.

GreeBo · 16-01-2007 11:42am

I always use these or a metal version to hold items up in plasterboard.
they are rated to hold something like 10KG each so they should be fine (especially if you use more than one)
I use them for curtain rails, radiators, ceiling lights, etc

when hanging my kitchen cabinets I used rawl plugs into the blockwork to hold the timber support that the cabinets actually hang off.

run_Forrest_run · 16-01-2007 12:16pm

yeah, a friend gave me some plugs just like those..they are a bit longer with edges between each thread for grip etc...the bracket takes 4 * 8mm screws so that will be 4 plugs to hold up a speaker weighing 7kg. Perhaps this is fine but since I am not handy at this sort of thing I am nervous!

GreeBo · 16-01-2007 12:35pm

just take your time
measure twice, drill once.

If using a cordless screwdriver use it on its lowest torque setting (so it will "give up" when it meets resistance)
The biggest problem with these plugs and plasterboard is if you try to screw them in too far or too hard.
The plasterboard can crumble/crack/break and then you are in trouble.

Depending on how/where you buy them they might come with a a drill bit and an adapter for your drill/screw driver.

If not just make a pilot hole (smaller than the thinest bit of the plug) and screw it in.

run_Forrest_run · 16-01-2007 12:47pm

yep, it came with a drill bit for drilling the hole then an adapter for the drill which attaches to the actual plug on the other end to allow the plug to be inserted into the hole nice and snug (I hope). yep, I see what you mean about inserting the plug in too hard or too fast...I loathe the sound of crumbling plaster..at least I will perfect the art of filling holes.
thanks for your feedback GreeBo.

run_Forrest_run · 22-01-2007 9:43am

the brackets and the speakers are up on the wall and they sound beautiful. in the end I used plugs called 'Plas Plugs' which are along the same lines as the self screw plugs, except these ones come with a little attachment for the drill to help screw the plugs into the cavity as the plugs. As long as the drill was used very slowly using these plugs was a dream. now fingers crossed everything stays in place!

kc66 · 25-01-2007 5:40pm

Heres a handy website:
http://www.plasplugs.com/fixings_hollow.html

FrankGrimes · 25-01-2007 7:01pm

hiscan wrote:

put the wall plug into the hole at the top of the express anchor and screw into that then you wont need the timber this is how i hung the radiators in my house that i also drylined the same way as yourself

That's a neat idea alright, especially if it's just 3/8" plasterboard directly onto the concrete blocks, but I'll be going through the 3/8" plasterboard, and then through the 40mm foam insulation behind it before I get to the concrete. I have 110mm expressos from another job, but am wondering what kinda hold I could expect given that the head would be a good 50mm from the wall?
What size rawlplugs do you slot into the expresso head?

25-01-2007 11:28pm

I use thorsman duo max http://www.mdonnelly.ie/products-page20784.html

never have any trouble with them and I've used hundreds.

Wall anchors & plasterboard/dry lining walls!

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