Buying house with subsidence

Dolbhad · 03-10-2020 11:22am #1

We are sale agreed on a house. Last week our engineer was out and he is of the opinion that the cracks in the house are due to subsidence. We are waiting for drains testing to shed more light and get a coating.

The house is top end of our budget so we have no money for underpinning and will need to negotiate the price off the house. But it’s our top location and ticks all the boxes so I don’t want to lose the house.

Anybody have experience buying a house that’s been underpinned or needs work?

Padre_Pio · 03-10-2020 11:24am

Dolbhad wrote: »

Anybody have experience buying a house that’s been underpinned or needs work?

Is the bank OK with giving you a mortgage?
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/that-sinking-feeling-is-it-worth-buying-a-house-with-subsidence-1.4228478

Danzy · 03-10-2020 11:26am

Dolbhad wrote: »

We are sale agreed on a house. Last week our engineer was out and he is of the opinion that the cracks in the house are due to subsidence. We are waiting for drains testing to shed more light and get a coating.

The house is top end of our budget so we have no money for underpinning and will need to negotiate the price off the house. But it’s our top location and ticks all the boxes so I don’t want to lose the house.

Anybody have experience buying a house that’s been underpinned or needs work?

Many if not most, old houses will have some level of subsidence, most occurred within 30 years of build.

Depends on the severity.

It's not always a problem and just accepting it's there can be an option before underpinning works, which can be costly.

If it is a newish house, then I'd be more concerned.

By old I mean 70+

Dolbhad · 03-10-2020 1:35pm

Danzy wrote: »

Many if not most, old houses will have some level of subsidence, most occurred within 30 years of build.

Depends on the severity.

It's not always a problem and just accepting it's there can be an option before underpinning works, which can be costly.

If it is a newish house, then I'd be more concerned.

By old I mean 70+

Thanks for the response. The house was built it the late 70’s, early 80’s - would that be old enough? It’s in a small estate so we are checking to see if others have the same issue.

chicorytip · 03-10-2020 11:27pm

What type of house is this? Detached, Semi, terraced? If there are connecting properties to this particular that are displaying similar cracks then there is likely to be subsiding or crumbling foundations. The cracks typically would be broad and jagged shaped, not straight, and on load bearing walls.
Did you notice if any of the floors were uneven or sagging or if any doors or windows were sticking and difficult to open and close. These can also be symptoms of subsidence but not exclusively.

Sweet.Science · 04-10-2020 10:32am

Pulled out a purchase recently for the same issue

Dolbhad · 05-10-2020 7:28am

chicorytip wrote: »

What type of house is this? Detached, Semi, terraced? If there are connecting properties to this particular that are displaying similar cracks then there is likely to be subsiding or crumbling foundations. The cracks typically would be broad and jagged shaped, not straight, and on load bearing walls.
Did you notice if any of the floors were uneven or sagging or if any doors or windows were sticking and difficult to open and close. These can also be symptoms of subsidence but not exclusively.

It’s a detached house. The cracks were not on any internal walls. The cracks were not straight and around the windows and ceiling. I didn’t notice any issues with the floor when walking on it. We didn’t really check windows and doors as they do need replacing anyway.

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Pulled out a purchase recently for the same issue

Sorry to hear that. What were your sellers like when you raised the issue with them? I’m wondering are we mad to even still entertain buying it.

The chan chan man · 05-10-2020 7:31am

How bad are the cracks? Any photos?

Pkiernan · 05-10-2020 7:35am

You may not get insurance on the house.

chicorytip · 05-10-2020 8:36am

Dolbhad wrote: »

Thanks for the response. The house was built it the late 70’s, early 80’s - would that be old enough? It’s in a small estate so we are checking to see if others have the same issue.

From what you have described the issues could be as a result of settlement - which is normal - rather than subsidence. It's sensible of you to check with the neighbours as you mentioned.

Dempo1 · 05-10-2020 8:44am

Dolbhad wrote: »

Thanks for the response. The house was built it the late 70’s, early 80’s - would that be old enough? It’s in a small estate so we are checking to see if others have the same issue.

Very concerning to be honest, I'd understand if it was a house built longer than 70"s, 80"s.My own cottage built in 1810 has no subsidence albeit its a single story cottage. I've since extended substantially and insured solid foundations laid for all extension work.

I'd be very surprised a mortgage would be given on any property showing subsidence and particular a house that is really not that old in the bigger scheme of things. I'd be extremely cautious and even the fact op looking at under pinning costs is alarming to be honest.

Insurance is also going to be a serious challenge

Dolbhad · 05-10-2020 9:12am

We didn’t expect the issue of possible subsidence. It’s not in an area that’s known for it. We have just got the initial survey and engineer had flagged it - he’s not so sure it’s settlement cracks. He recommended drains testing which we will organise at at expensive of €350 to see if it sheds more light. We are hoping maybe only drains works need to be carried out and house doesn't need to be underpinned.

I don’t expect to get insurance. To be honest most of Cork you can’t get subsidence cover at all. If it wasn’t for the fact the house ticks all the boxes I would have walked at the mention of subsidence but willing to investigate further to see what the situation is.

We either decide to buy and get the price reduced or see if sellers have insurance and can claim for the works or walk. We have not mentioned anything yet as we had to think about what we wanted to do.

Dempo1 · 05-10-2020 9:18am

Dolbhad wrote: »

We didn’t expect the issue of possible subsidence. It’s not in an area that’s known for it. We have just got the initial survey and engineer had flagged it - he’s not so sure it’s settlement cracks. He recommended drains testing which we will organise at at expensive of €350 to see if it sheds more light. We are hoping maybe only drains works need to be carried out and house doesn't need to be underpinned.

I don’t expect to get insurance. To be honest most of Cork you can’t get subsidence cover at all. If it wasn’t for the fact the house ticks all the boxes I would have walked at the mention of subsidence but willing to investigate further to see what the situation is.

We either decide to buy and get the price reduced or see if sellers have insurance and can claim for the works or walk. We have not mentioned anything yet as we had to think about what we wanted to do.

Well good luck with your decision, it's genuinely a tough one but as with my own experience, keep in mind costs of any renovation coupled with potential remedial costs and indeed if works such as underpinning is even visible. Whilst I didn't have subsidence issues, my cottage is standalone on its own site so plenty of space had I had to do any major drainage or remedial works. Drainage crucial were I live, the Slieve Bloom mountains.

Cows Go µ · 05-10-2020 9:44am

Dolbhad wrote: »

I don’t expect to get insurance. To be honest most of Cork you can’t get subsidence cover at all. If it wasn’t for the fact the house ticks all the boxes I would have walked at the mention of subsidence but willing to investigate further to see what the situation is.

We either decide to buy and get the price reduced or see if sellers have insurance and can claim for the works or walk. We have not mentioned anything yet as we had to think about what we wanted to do.

On the insurance front, Zurich do a excluding subsidence policy. I'm not sure if it's available directly with them but I know at least one broker who does it.

Rew · 05-10-2020 3:28pm

Dolbhad wrote: »

We didn’t expect the issue of possible subsidence. It’s not in an area that’s known for it. We have just got the initial survey and engineer had flagged it - he’s not so sure it’s settlement cracks. He recommended drains testing which we will organise at at expensive of €350 to see if it sheds more light. We are hoping maybe only drains works need to be carried out and house doesn't need to be underpinned.

I don’t expect to get insurance. To be honest most of Cork you can’t get subsidence cover at all. If it wasn’t for the fact the house ticks all the boxes I would have walked at the mention of subsidence but willing to investigate further to see what the situation is.

We either decide to buy and get the price reduced or see if sellers have insurance and can claim for the works or walk. We have not mentioned anything yet as we had to think about what we wanted to do.

Just make sure if you're using a mortgage to purchase the bank will go ahead.

Pkiernan · 05-10-2020 3:43pm

By the way, its a good thing the way you are approaching this.
Eyes open, and willing to walk away if it makes sense to.

Dolbhad · 05-10-2020 3:43pm

Thanks for all the advice. Going to look into insurance just in case and waiting to talk to my solicitor.

Such a dose as nothing really else on the market at the moment that we can afford like this house as kept being out bidded

Danzy · 05-10-2020 4:20pm

Dolbhad wrote: »

We didn’t expect the issue of possible subsidence. It’s not in an area that’s known for it. We have just got the initial survey and engineer had flagged it - he’s not so sure it’s settlement cracks. He recommended drains testing which we will organise at at expensive of €350 to see if it sheds more light. We are hoping maybe only drains works need to be carried out and house doesn't need to be underpinned.

I don’t expect to get insurance. To be honest most of Cork you can’t get subsidence cover at all. If it wasn’t for the fact the house ticks all the boxes I would have walked at the mention of subsidence but willing to investigate further to see what the situation is.

We either decide to buy and get the price reduced or see if sellers have insurance and can claim for the works or walk. We have not mentioned anything yet as we had to think about what we wanted to do.

The part of Cork city I have the house, they nearky investigate why their isn't subsidence.

Dolbhad · 05-10-2020 7:59pm

Danzy wrote: »

The part of Cork city I have the house, they nearky investigate why their isn't subsidence.

That’s so true. Once you hit the south side of city it’s more a case of houses that have been underpinned vs houses that need to be underpinned

Dolbhad · 07-11-2020 3:19pm

Just a quick update to say after numerous engineers, drains inspection and quotes for underpinning, the issue has been identified and sellers are claiming on their insurance to fix it. Luckily it’s not a whole underpinning needed - just one wall so we are going to proceed if works are done and all signed of on.

Danzy · 07-11-2020 5:02pm

Dolmen insurance are worth looking at.

Buying house with subsidence

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