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Refused job seekers allowance.

  • 26-09-2011 4:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭


    Hi:)

    I moved here with my Grandparents 18 months ago and am originally from the UK (born there) and live with my Grandparents bought house here in Ireland. I have spent this time renovating my grandparents house for free and they have been supporting me. I have never worked here.

    I have applied for JSA and filled in all forms and have had a home visit and as I had not heard anything I gave the social protection office a ring to see how my claim is going.

    The lady went off to check and came back and said it is bad news as it's not a favorable decision.

    She stated that I didn't give proof of income and that I didn't prove residency.

    In my application I filled in my PPS number. I thought this was proof of residency?

    I enclosed a copy of my bank statement which shows only 100 euro in it. How else can I prove residency and income?
    My grandparents had also written a letter stating I live with them and that I didnt receive any money from renovating there house.

    I plan to appeal as my Grandparents plan to sell up and move back to the UK.

    I would like to stay in Ireland but if I can't get any money I will have to move back with them. Otherwise I would starve!!

    Thanks. Stove Fan:(


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭JustAddWater


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    I have never worked here.

    I think that answers your question.

    You have to have previous tax paid in order to claim JSA as it's for people who are unemployed, not never been employed

    I dont know specifics but you have to have paid x amount of tax first before JSA is awarded


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I think that answers your question.

    You have to have previous tax paid in order to claim JSA as it's for people who are unemployed, not never been employed

    I dont know specifics but you have to have paid x amount of tax first before JSA is awarded

    No so - you need to have paid a certain amount of prsi contributions to get job seekers benefit - not allowance.

    Fromhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html
    If you are aged 18 or over and unemployed, you may be paid either Jobseeker's Allowance (JA) or Jobseeker's Benefit (JB). Both payments are paid by the Department of Social Protection (DSP). Jobseeker's Allowance used to be called Unemployment Assistance; the name of the payment changed in October 2006.

    You may get Jobseeker's Allowance if you don't qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit or if you have used up your entitlement to Jobseeker's Benefit. In some cases, if you are only entitled to a reduced rate of Jobseeker's Benefit you may be better off on Jobseeker's Allowance. However, Jobseeker's Allowance is means-tested and your means must be below a certain level to qualify.

    You must be unemployed to get Jobseeker’s Allowance.

    To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

    Be unemployed
    Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
    Be capable of work
    Be available for and genuinely seeking work
    Satisfy the means test
    Meet the Habitual Residence Condition.

    I imagine they are denying it under the Habitual Residence Condition - info available here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    darokane wrote: »
    your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it

    Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    eastbono wrote: »
    Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.

    yeah i answered that above too


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    darokane wrote: »
    yeah i answered that above too

    Define what 'habitual residence' means


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    it's where a person has lived here(or Great Britain) on a permanent basis for a certain period of uninterrupted time


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    You are likely to satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition if you:

    * have spent all of your life in the Common Travel Area, or
    * have lived in the Common Travel Area for the last 2 years or more, have worked in the Common Travel Area and now live in the Republic of Ireland, or
    * have lived in other parts of the Common Travel Area for 2 years or more and then move to the Republic of Ireland and intend to make it your permanent home.


    A bank or credit card statement would constitute evidence of habitual residence, Also like i said if you ask they will provide a form for the OP's grandparents to fill out


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    You have, of course, a right to reside here but proving habitual residency in order to receive social assistance payments is quite some undertaking.
    It can be very difficult to prove that Ireland is your 'centre of interest' and proving that is a major factor in proving habitual residency. Things you need to do to prove habitual residency in order to claim social assistance payments are
    show evidence you have been looking for work
    show evidence that you have joined clubs, library, organizations etc., and where possible get letters of reference
    show that you have signed up for a GP
    provide names of family/friends who can be approached to vouch for you
    provide evidence that you have severed links with the UK., i.e., any property sold, left rented property, that you have cancelled any benefit assistance payments in the UK, bank accounts closed, educational courses finished, jobs left etc.,
    provide evidence of leased/bought property here.
    The fact that your grandparents are returning to the UK will make it even more difficult for you.

    More info here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    No so - you need to have paid a certain amount of prsi contributions to get job seekers benefit - not allowance.

    I wouldn't qualify for job seekers benefit as I have not made any contributions

    Fromhttp://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_allowance.html
    If you are aged 18 or over and unemployed, you may be paid either Jobseeker's Allowance (JA) or Jobseeker's Benefit (JB). Both payments are paid by the Department of Social Protection (DSP). Jobseeker's Allowance used to be called Unemployment Assistance; the name of the payment changed in October 2006.

    You may get Jobseeker's Allowance if you don't qualify for Jobseeker's Benefit or if you have used up your entitlement to Jobseeker's Benefit. In some cases, if you are only entitled to a reduced rate of Jobseeker's Benefit you may be better off on Jobseeker's Allowance. However, Jobseeker's Allowance is means-tested and your means must be below a certain level to qualify.

    I have no income or savings which I declared in the application

    You must be unemployed to get Jobseeker’s Allowance.

    To get Jobseeker's Allowance you must:

    Be unemployed
    Be over 18 and under 66 years of age
    Be capable of work
    Be available for and genuinely seeking work
    Satisfy the means test
    Meet the Habitual Residence Condition.

    I am 32 and capable of work and would surely satisfy a means test as I have no capital or houses.

    I imagine they are denying it under the Habitual Residence Condition - info available here: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html

    Thanks for the link:)
    darokane wrote: »
    your cwo will pay you until this matter is resolved, you can get a form that your grandparents can sign to say you reside there and write dates etc. on it

    Who are the cwo the Community welfare officer? If so what is the name or ref no of the form?
    eastbono wrote: »
    Supplementary welfare allowance is also subject to a person being deemed habitually resident. Community welfare officers conduct their own habitual residence for supplementary welfare allowance.

    No problem

    darokane wrote: »
    it's where a person has lived here(or Great Britain) on a permanent basis for a certain period of uninterrupted time
    darokane wrote: »
    You are likely to satisfy the Habitual Residence Condition if you:

    * have spent all of your life in the Common Travel Area, or
    * have lived in the Common Travel Area for the last 2 years or more, have worked in the Common Travel Area and now live in the Republic of Ireland, or
    * have lived in other parts of the Common Travel Area for 2 years or more and then move to the Republic of Ireland and intend to make it your permanent home.

    I was born in Britain and lived there most of my life and then after about 24 years moved to France with my Grandparents and renovated the house for them for no wage and then my Grandparents sold in France and then bought here. The person visited us to give us a form to fill in for the census and I filled in my part.

    I filled in the form for JSA honestly and I even included a letter stating my background. My Grandparents also included a letter stating I live with them which I do and that I have no income and never had any money for the house I renovated in France or here.



    A bank or credit card statement would constitute evidence of habitual residence, Also like i said if you ask they will provide a form for the OP's grandparents to fill out

    Unfortunately I have never needed a bank account Here and so have only just opened one.
    Balagan wrote: »
    You have, of course, a right to reside here but proving habitual residency in order to receive social assistance payments is quite some undertaking.
    It can be very difficult to prove that Ireland is your 'centre of interest' and proving that is a major factor in proving habitual residency. Things you need to do to prove habitual residency in order to claim social assistance payments are
    show evidence you have been looking for work
    show evidence that you have joined clubs, library, organizations etc., and where possible get letters of reference
    show that you have signed up for a GP
    provide names of family/friends who can be approached to vouch for you
    provide evidence that you have severed links with the UK., i.e., any property sold, left rented property, that you have cancelled any benefit assistance payments in the UK, bank accounts closed, educational courses finished, jobs left etc.,
    provide evidence of leased/bought property here.
    The fact that your grandparents are returning to the UK will make it even more difficult for you.

    I have never claimed benefits. My Grandparents kept me for the labour I did renovating. I had cancelled my French bank account and severed every tie in the UK or France. The only tie I had was my French account.

    My Grandparents vouched for me as they are the ones who brought me up from the age of 10. My Mother wasn't great and my father has Died.

    I have no disabilities and would work if I can find a Job. I am a trained plumber. I am not on any training course. The house I live in is owned by my Grandparents.

    More info here http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/social_assistance_payments/residency_requirements_for_social_assistance_in_ireland.html


    Thanks everyone who has given advice and I really appreciate it:) I want to stay in Ireland and find a job with an employer in the plumbing industry and eventually when things improve start my own plumbing buisiness.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Stove Fan wrote: »



    Who are the cwo the Community welfare officer? If so what is the name or ref no of the form?



    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/supplementary_welfare_schemes/supplementary_welfare_allow.html

    All info is there, You will have to go down to your local health centre and talk to a cwo officer personally


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Hi:)

    I applied for JSA at the end of August and I am still waiting to get my JSA approved after being refused. I had the letter of aknowledgement letter of receipt of my appeal on the 25th of October and am still waiting:eek: I have been going in to the welfare office to sign the last two months. I have kept phoning them at Dublin but it has only reached the deciding officer on the 10th of December for a decision. I phoned today again and still no news so they said someone would phone which they did and said the process will either go to an oral hearing or decided, but allow another 2 months:eek: I was just staggered at the system and said what do I live on? He said that you would have to go to your social welfare office or local welfare officer and it's up to them at their discretion:eek: I said I expected the process to take 2-3 weeks as you could starve waiting:eek: He said unfortunately it can take a long time as they have 25,000 appeals to go through each year.

    What would you do?

    Is this normal:eek::eek::eek:

    Stove Fan:rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,339 ✭✭✭brembo26


    As far as I know if your waiting for your claim to be granted the community welfare officer will pay you while your waiting. Thats the way it worked for me but I wasnt appealing a case :confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Well a bit more news.

    I telephoned Dublin yesterday and after waiting 15 minutes I got hold of someone and asked how my claim was going.

    The person said a decision on my appeal had been decided:) so asked what the result was only to be told that they can't tell me under the data protection act and I would have to wait for the letter to arrive.

    I asked when it was posted, but it hasn't yet. So a waiting game. I phoned my local office and they hadn't heard anything either from them:(

    Has anyone else experienced this? Or do they not tell you anyway over the phone?

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    Having to wait for the letter is hard but this is the way they do it.

    You will get the Appeals Officer’s decision in writing. If your appeal is not successful the Appeals Officer will explain why.[/Uhttp://www.welfare.ie/EN/Publications/SW56/Pages/HowwillIgetthedecision.aspx


  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭hawthorne


    Some of the stuff are not very customer friendly. They could have told you...


  • Registered Users Posts: 515 ✭✭✭Atlantis50


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Well a bit more news.

    I telephoned Dublin yesterday and after waiting 15 minutes I got hold of someone and asked how my claim was going.

    The person said a decision on my appeal had been decided:) so asked what the result was only to be told that they can't tell me under the data protection act and I would have to wait for the letter to arrive.

    I asked when it was posted, but it hasn't yet. So a waiting game. I phoned my local office and they hadn't heard anything either from them:(

    Has anyone else experienced this? Or do they not tell you anyway over the phone?

    Stove Fan:)
    On the contrary, they are obliged to tell you under the Data Protection Act - it is you requesting information on your claim. The DPA would only apply here if you were a third party requesting information on someone elses social welfare claim/details.

    http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm
    Under Section 4 of the Data Protection Acts, you also have a right to get a copy of your personal information. This applies to all types of information -for example, written details about you held electronically or on paper, photographs and CCTV images. You are also entitled to know where the information was obtained, how it has been used and if it has been passed on to anyone else.[...]

    If the letter telling the outcome of your claim doesn't arrive in a timely fashion you should phone again and tell them that you are entitled to know the outcome of the appeal based on Section 4 of the Data Protection Act.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Atlantis50 wrote: »
    On the contrary, they are obliged to tell you under the Data Protection Act - it is you requesting information on your claim. The DPA would only apply here if you were a third party requesting information on someone elses social welfare claim/details.

    http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm


    If the letter telling the outcome of your claim doesn't arrive in a timely fashion you should phone again and tell them that you are entitled to know the outcome of the appeal based on Section 4 of the Data Protection Act.

    Your happy for DSP to discuss, over the phone,your details with someone who just happens to know yourPPSN?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    mrsbyrne wrote: »
    Your happy for DSP to discuss, over the phone,your details with someone who just happens to know yourPPSN?

    I thought the same that someone could of stolen the letter with the reference numbers on in a burglary.
    What they could of done though is to say they will phone you back on your home number which is on your claim:cool:
    This would make sure I was the person I said I am and could of then asked for my PPSN, address, Date of Birth, just to make sure:) I will just wait for the letter.

    Oh well not to worry I should hopefully know in a couple of weeks:)

    Thanks. Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Well I finally got the letter notifying me of their decision this morning and:

    "Disallowed"

    They say that I failed to show my means and how I have been supporting myself.

    I had sent a copy of my bank account with my appeal which only have 100 euro to my name and my Grandparents wrote them a 2 page letter stating why I had lived with them from the age of 10 and that they are my guardian and they had been supporting me.

    I have no, money, no income:eek:

    Is there anything I can do, or is it the case to sell up if we can and get the hell out of here back to the UK a country where I am from that won't let you starve and doesn't drag out the process for 5 months and waste your time and petrol signing on at an 80km round trip each time.

    I wish we had never invested in a house here or spent money on renovations as it's a kick in the teeth.

    Stove Fan:mad:.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 590 ✭✭✭hawthorne


    So it took them a further three weeks to forward you the result which they already knew then....
    You only have the possibility of an appeal left.
    Act now.
    And have a chat with the CWO about SWA.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    From what I gather, you appealed the original decision and your appeal was then disallowed?
    Have you gone to the Community Welfare Officer since you posted here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cee_jay wrote: »
    From what I gather, you appealed the original decision and your appeal was then disallowed?
    Have you gone to the Community Welfare Officer since you posted here?

    Yes my original claim for JSA was refused and yes my appeal has been dissalowed because of the above, which I had supplied.

    I originally went to the welfare officer in my village to see how I claim JSA and he told me where to go to claim.

    I haven't been there since as I thought I would await the outcome of my appeal. I was informed by Dublin that I may be able to claim SWA while my claim was ongoing but it was at the discretion of the welfare officer and needed to fill in the same forms again? I was also told it could delay payment if my appeal was sucessful as they deduct the swa payment off what I would of received in JSA backpay.

    I decided to await the decision and was lucky in that my Grandparents are supporting me.

    My welfare officer is only there for a few hours once a month now.

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭keredern


    brembo26 wrote: »
    As far as I know if your waiting for your claim to be granted the community welfare officer will pay you while your waiting. Thats the way it worked for me but I wasnt appealing a case :confused:

    The Community Welfare Service operates independently of the DSP.

    However, SWA Basic payment is subject to a means test, various other criteria, & the applicant must be Habitually Resident.

    OP it appears from your appeal decision that Habitual Residence was not an issue? You only mention means undisclosed in your post above.

    If you are deemed HR then you may obtain an SWA payment from the HEO in charge of the Community Welfare Service for your address. The HEO there will assess your HR status in the first instance & then assess means, etc. to determine if you have an entitlement

    Apply bringing the appeal letter & see what happens!

    Best of luck:)

    hawthorne wrote: »
    Some of the stuff are not very customer friendly. They could have told you...

    No, unfortunately staff cannot give out personal information over the phone!
    Atlantis50 wrote: »
    On the contrary, they are obliged to tell you under the Data Protection Act - it is you requesting information on your claim. The DPA would only apply here if you were a third party requesting information on someone elses social welfare claim/details.

    http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Accessing_Your_Personal_Information/14.htm

    Again, personal information can not be given over the phone to protect the individual's right to confidentiality. Attending in person, or receiving the information in writing are the only safe methods of ensuring that the DPA is complied with.

    In the example above, it would have been perfectly acceptable for the OP to have attended the Local Office with ID & ask at the counter for a copy of the decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    keredern wrote: »
    The Community Welfare Service operates independently of the DSP.

    However, SWA Basic payment is subject to a means test, various other criteria, & the applicant must be Habitually Resident.

    OP it appears from your appeal decision that Habitual Residence was not an issue? You only mention means undisclosed in your post above.

    If you are deemed HR then you may obtain an SWA payment from the HEO in charge of the Community Welfare Service for your address. The HEO there will assess your HR status in the first instance & then assess means, etc. to determine if you have an entitlement

    Apply bringing the appeal letter & see what happens!

    Best of luck:)

    Hi, thanks for the reply. In the letter they sent for the reasons of my appeal being rejected they never mentioned about habitualy resident. The local social welfare office did initially though before I appealed along with 4 other reasons:(

    I think I will see what they say next week at Tralee and then see if I can claim SWA.

    I will also see the welfare officer at the end of the month.

    Tralee hasn't received the appeal decision yet so can't confirm the reasons of rejection, although in my letter stated, means and how have I being supporting myself.

    Many thanks,

    Stove Fan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9 PatA


    I see that your granny & grandad are your guardians, so I'm thinking that maybe they could get an extra payment on their pensions for you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    PatA wrote: »
    I see that your granny & grandad are your guardians, so I'm thinking that maybe they could get an extra payment on their pensions for you?

    How would this work:confused: They did apply to the social welfare to see if there UK pension could be topped up but as they have never worked here and are on a UK pension it seemed it wasn't possible. They do get the fuel allowances though:)

    Stove Fan:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    Well everyone I would just like to thank everyone for their replys to my post:)

    We are now going to try to sell the house and return back to the UK!!

    I phoned up to query my refusal of JSA on the grounds of not showing my means and how I had been supporting myself.

    She phoned me back, and said the file had been closed and this was the end. I said, was the copy of my bank statement there, and letters to show how I had been supporting myself, or had they been thrown away.
    She said that anything that I sent would be there.

    She asked me how much was in my bank account and I said 100 euro, she agreed this was the case, so it would seem the statement was there.

    I asked if I could claim any other benefit like SWA and She said that I could try. I said would there be any point as I found waiting 5 months and having to go on an 80km round trip, for 3 times to sign on using my fuel to be a total disgrace. I said I would of probably sold the house before I received payment, if it was approved!! I said it should of only taken a couple of weeks, and I should of been given an emergency payment like the UK.

    She said that there is a huge backlog and it takes a while. I said if thats the case you need to employ more staff to deal with them.

    I said that we would of never bought a house here if we had known EU nationals can come here but not if you can't support yourself. My Grandparents have a UK pension, but it's nowhere near as generous as an Irish pension. They couldn't keep supporting me on there low UK pension and paying my health insurance so thought I would claim JSA while looking for a plumbing job. They find food here and most other things more expensive than the UK.

    She asked the age of my Grandparents, 79 and 80 and if I cared for them. The honest answer was I only do hoovering and take them shopping and see to the fire.
    So a carers allowance is a non runner.

    We had employed Irish people to work on our house and had spent tens of thousands of euros on the renovations, but as soon as you ask for assistance it's basically a no but instead of being honest and saying your only welcome if you don't bother us and bring plenty of money.
    If anyone is thinking of moving to Ireland my advice is don't unless you have a job lined up or have lots of money to support yourself and pay private insurance.

    I loved rural Ireland and it's people but no wonder young people are emmigrating in droves!!
    Anyway we will be selling up and moving back to a country that does have a caring welfare system and a health system thats free:)

    Stove Fan:(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭keredern


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Well everyone I would just like to thank everyone for their replys to my post:)

    We are now going to try to sell the house and return back to the UK!!

    I phoned up to query my refusal of JSA on the grounds of not showing my means and how I had been supporting myself.

    She phoned me back, and said the file had been closed and this was the end. I said, was the copy of my bank statement there, and letters to show how I had been supporting myself, or had they been thrown away.
    She said that anything that I sent would be there.

    She asked me how much was in my bank account and I said 100 euro, she agreed this was the case, so it would seem the statement was there.

    I asked if I could claim any other benefit like SWA and She said that I could try. I said would there be any point as I found waiting 5 months and having to go on an 80km round trip, for 3 times to sign on using my fuel to be a total disgrace. I said I would of probably sold the house before I received payment, if it was approved!! I said it should of only taken a couple of weeks, and I should of been given an emergency payment like the UK.

    She said that there is a huge backlog and it takes a while. I said if thats the case you need to employ more staff to deal with them.

    I said that we would of never bought a house here if we had known EU nationals can come here but not if you can't support yourself. My Grandparents have a UK pension, but it's nowhere near as generous as an Irish pension. They couldn't keep supporting me on there low UK pension and paying my health insurance so thought I would claim JSA while looking for a plumbing job. They find food here and most other things more expensive than the UK.

    She asked the age of my Grandparents, 79 and 80 and if I cared for them. The honest answer was I only do hoovering and take them shopping and see to the fire.
    So a carers allowance is a non runner.

    We had employed Irish people to work on our house and had spent tens of thousands of euros on the renovations, but as soon as you ask for assistance it's basically a no but instead of being honest and saying your only welcome if you don't bother us and bring plenty of money.
    If anyone is thinking of moving to Ireland my advice is don't unless you have a job lined up or have lots of money to support yourself and pay private insurance.

    I loved rural Ireland and it's people but no wonder young people are emmigrating in droves!!
    Anyway we will be selling up and moving back to a country that does have a caring welfare system and a health system thats free:)

    Stove Fan:(

    I'm afraid Stove Fan that the highlighted piece above is exactly the point!

    I cannot pack up tomorrow & move to Germany unless I can provide for myself from my own resources.:)

    It is entirely unreasonable to expect a member State to provide Social Welfare to ANY EU nationals that decide to move there, unless that person contributes for a *period to the economy through employment!

    *Usually a minimum of 52 consecutive weeks in genuine & effective work

    There have to be certain criteria applied across the EU in order to prevent large numbers of people from less well off countries moving to so called wealthier States in order to claim social welfare payments.

    People often confuse 'freedom of movement' with 'entitlement to social welfare' unfortunately.:o

    I understand that this was not your intention at all, but the same rules must apply to every EU national.

    The reality is that if you were an Irish national & moved to the UK in the same circumstances, exactly the same situation would arise as the UK DSW also have HRC & employment/contribution rules.

    I am genuinely sorry that you are in this position & do hope that it works out for you but please do not think that Ireland is any different to any other EU member State.:)


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