Antisemitism rising sharply across Europe

Dick phelan wrote: »

Antisemitism seems to come from a few angles atm


3 From members of other religious groups historically christian but no mostly Muslims.

Not sure about 'no(w) mostly' Muslims. The far right and lefty radical types you mention likely claim to be part of religious groups, and there's plenty of antisemitism still coming from so-called Christian groups. Ilhan Omar may or may not be antisemitic, I'm willing to give her benefit of the doubt right now, she's said nothing worse than, say, George W. Bush or Donald Trump (Trump recently said "Your prime minister" when talking about Netanyahu at a Republican Jewish event.)

But the rise in antisemitism in Europe (this thread) isn't due to Moslem's in Europe. It's the good-old Christian-rooted antisemitism rampant in Eastern Europe (cf. the OP talking about Jews in Romania). Not sure if it's a rise, exactly - it's never gone away, even the horrors of the Holocaust aren't enough to dissuade the haters.

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

I'd say most people have zero problem with Jew's, Jewish culture, traditions etc. They just have a serious problem with that apartheid State we call Israel. You can be anti-israeli government and not be anti-Semitic

People can certainly be critical of the Israeli government - I certainly would be critical of many of their actions and policies. So are many Jews.
The complication is that there are also many who conceal their anti-semitism within criticism of Israel - or demonisation of Israel. There seems to be no acceptance that Israel faces an existential threat. Hamas is at best ambivalent about Israel's right to exist and its charter id blatantly anti semitic ,eg



Article 22 Of the Hamas Charter states that the French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, colonialism and both world wars were created by the Zionists or forces supportive of Zionism: "You may speak as much as you want about regional and world wars. They were behind World War I, when they were able to destroy the Islamic Caliphate, making financial gains and controlling resources. They obtained the Balfour Declaration, formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge financial gains by trading in armaments, and paved the way for the establishment of their state. It was they who instigated the replacement of the League of Nations with the United Nations and the Security Council to enable them to rule the world through them. There is no war going on anywhere, without having their finger in".


In an interview on Lebanese television on July 28, 2014, Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdan repeated the blood libel myth:
We all remember how the Jews used to slaughter Christians, in order to mix their blood in their holy matzos... It happened everywhere"


And as regards the Holocaust:
"This conference bears a clear Zionist goal, aimed at forging history by hiding the truth about the so-called Holocaust, which is an alleged and invented story with no basis. (...) The invention of these grand illusions of an alleged crime that never occurred, ignoring the millions of dead European victims of Nazism during the war, clearly reveals the racist Zionist face, which believes in the superiority of the Jewish race over the rest of the nations. (...) By these methods, the Jews in the world flout scientific methods of research whenever that research contradicts their racist interests."


If people balance their valid criticism of Israel with criticism of others then it is not anti-semitic.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Jews are my favourite group of people (smart, successful), but the politics of Israel is really, really messed up.

I find it hard to fathom how badly they treat the Palestinians.

Israeli settlement policy really is the Achilles heel of most of the otherwise logical and peaceful jews you meet or hear on the media. they cant bring themselves to condemn what is obviously a mistake and many will instantly reach for the antisemitism card.

now, that said, if my country were, like Israel, surrounded by people who wanted us wiped off the map, i would indeed support a very aggressive defence policy.

ask yourself this. If Hamas had access to the weapons and equipment that the IDF have, what do you think would happen to Israel? It would have been incinerated. And yet the IDF have the means to wipe out the Palestinians but they have not done so.

Dick phelan wrote: »

2 From the far left communist leaning types like you see in the Labor Party in England and people in the US like Ilhan Omar.

Again, can you point to specific instances of remarks or actions from these entities which target Jews as a people and not specifically Israel or politicians / lobbyists who advocate in favour of Israel?

Either way it's an evil and despicable trend regardless of who it comes from, As mentioned by others if you actually visit a concentration camp to see all those baby shoes, suitcases etc knowing what happened to those people it makes you have some sympathy as to why Israel might act the way they do given Jewish history.

I'm sorry, but nothing justifies stealing what doesn't belong to you, and then getting violent when the victim attempts to reclaim it. Nothing.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I'm sorry, but nothing justifies stealing what doesn't belong to you, and then getting violent when the victim attempts to reclaim it. Nothing.

What exactly are you talking about here? Israel not having a right to exist or the settlements.



I certainly agree that Israel whould do more to make peace. But are they ever going to be left in peace? Iran has declared an intention to "wipe them off the face of the map". In 2017 Hamas's Mahmoud al-Zahar said:
“We have liberated Gaza, part of Palestine, but I am not prepared to accept just Gaza,” he said.
“Our position is: Palestine in its entirety, and not a grain of soil less,” added Zahar, a former Hamas foreign minister. “Allah did not define the 1967 borders or the 1948 borders. We will fight them wherever we can — on the ground, underground, and if we have airplanes, we will fight them from the skies.”


It is hard to make peace with that - at least you can understand the suspicion, skepticism and caution.


Anyway this is middle eastern politics. Nothing in it justifies current European anti-semitism.

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Israel citing antisemetism any time they are called out on their butchery and theft doesn't help the Jewish people. It's an insult to the Jewish faith every time Israel makes that connection.

This is about antisemitism increasing in Europe.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't believe Hamas would incinerate Israel if they had the chance.

There is no evidence to suggest that would be the case.

I feel Hamas are desperate, but I don't think they're suicidal. Trying to wipe Israel off the map would lead to their destruction.

Are you serious? Of course they would, given half a chance. They've said so.

Anyway, this thread's about European anti-semitism, not about Israel. Moving it to a discussion of Israel and Palestinians moves away from the point - antisemitism in Europe, which I submit is spurred on by religious teaching and opportunism by governments and political parties.

Hobosan wrote: »

When I see Palestinians targeting and blowing up a bunch of Jewish kids playing on a beach, then being exonerated by the government, then I may be more balanced in my criticism, but until that day...

The only thing preventing Hamas from mass murdering Jews are the Israeli defence forces. As for facing investigation by their government I don't think they would have any fear, based on Hamas's actions against their own people. From Wikipedia :

"In addition to killing Israeli civilians and armed forces, Hamas has also murdered suspected Palestinian Israel collaborators and Fatah rivals.[413] Hundreds of Palestinians were executed by both Hamas and Fatah during the First Intifada.[414] In the wake of the 2006 Israeli conflict with Gaza, Hamas was accused of systematically rounding up, torturing and summarily executing Fatah supporters suspected of supplying information to Israel. Human Rights Watch estimates several hundred Gazans were "maimed" and tortured in the aftermath of the conflict. Seventy-three Gazan men accused of "collaborating" had their arms and legs broken by "unidentified perpetrators" and 18 Palestinians accused of helping Israel were executed by Hamas security officials in the first days of the conflict.[233][234][415] In November 2012, Hamas's Izzedine al-Qassam brigade publicly executed six Gaza residents accused of collaborating with Israel. According to the witnesses, six alleged informers were shot dead one by one in Gaza City, while the corpse of the sixth victim was tied by a cable to the back of a motorcycle and dragged through the streets.[416] In 2013, Human Rights Watch issued a statement condemning Hamas for not investigating and giving a proper trial to the 6 men. Their statement was released the day before Hamas issued a deadline for "collaborators" to turn themselves in, or they will be pursued "without mercy".[417] In August 2014, during the 2014 Israel-Gaza conflict, at least 22 accused collaborators were executed by Hamas shortly after three of its commanders were assassinated by Israeli forces.[418] An Israeli source denied that any of the commanders had been targeted on the basis of human intelligence.[419]
Frequent killings of unarmed people have also occurred during Hamas-Fatah clashes.[420][421] NGOs have cited a number of summary executions as particular examples of violations of the rules of warfare, including the case of Muhammad Swairki, 28, a cook for Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas's presidential guard, who was thrown to his death, with his hands and legs tied, from a 15-story apartment building in Gaza City.[422] Hamas security forces reportedly shoot and torture Palestinians who opposed Hamas rule in Gaza.[233] In one case, a Palestinian had criticized Hamas in a conversation on the street with some friends. Later that day, more than a dozen armed men with black masks and red kaffiyeh took the man from his home, and brought him to a solitary area where they shot him three times in the lower legs and ankles. The man told Human Rights Watch that he was not politically active.[233]
On August 14, 2009, Hamas fighters stormed the Mosque of cleric Abdel-Latif Moussa.[423] The cleric was protected by at least 100 fighters from Jund Ansar Allah ("Army of the Helpers of God"), an Islamist group with links to Al-Qaeda. The resulting battle left at least 13 people dead, including Moussa and 6 Hamas fighters, and 120 people injured.[424] According to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas, during 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict, Hamas killed more than 120 Palestinian youths for defying house arrest imposed on them by Hamas, in addition to 30–40 Palestinians killed by Hamas in extrajudicial executions after accusing them of being collaborators with Israel.[425] Referring to the killing of suspected collaborators, a Shin Bet official stated that "not even one" of those executed by Hamas provided any intelligence to Israel, while the Shin Bet officially "confirmed that those executed during Operation Protective Edge had all been held in prison in Gaza in the course of the hostilities".[419]

"In 2012, the Human Rights Watch presented a 43 page long list of human rights violation committed by Hamas. Among actions attributed to Hamas the HRW report mentions beatings with metal clubs and rubber hoses, hanging of alleged collaborationists with Israel, and torture of 102 individuals. According to the report, Hamas also tortured civil society activists and peaceful protesters. Reflecting on the captivity of Gilad Shalit, the HRW report described it as "cruel and inhuman". The report also slams Hamas for harassment of people based on so called morality offenses and for media censorship.[511][512] In a public statement Joe Stork, the deputy Middle East director of HRW claimed, "after five years of Hamas rule in Gaza, its criminal justice system reeks of injustice, routinely violates detainees' rights and grants impunity to abusive security services." Hamas responded by denying charges and describing them as "politically motivated"[513]
On May 26, 2015 Amnesty International released a report saying that Hamas carried out extrajudicial killings, abductions and arrests of Palestinians and used the Al-Shifa Hospital to detain, interrogate and torture suspects during the Israel–Gaza conflict in 2014. It details the executions of at least 23 Palestinians accused of collaborating with Israel and torture of dozens of others, many victims of torture were members of the rival Palestinian movement, Fatah.[514][515]

ted1 wrote: »

6 million Jews killed out of a population of around 28 million


1.5 Irish killed out a population of 8 million isn’t much difference. We Irish obviously don’t carry as much as a grudge

I don't know where you got your figures from. The 6 million Jewish deaths represented about 2/3 of the total Jewish population of Europe. Also the deaths were by organised, pre-meditated industrial scale homicide based on demonic, anti-semetic prejudices and conspiracy theories. Those same prejudices and conspiracy theories are once again manifesting across Europe.

Ten years earlier noone would have believed that those prejudices would have quickly translated into genocide. Their rise again needs to be taken seriously.


The Irish famine was a tragedy marked by gross government mismanagement, negligence and considerable indifference. It has left a long scar on the Irish. But it is not comparable to the Holocaust - and the Irish are not facing a rising tide of vile prejudice across Europe.