Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Hate crime? Really?

2456736

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,688 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    You'd have to admit there is a hint of Monty Python about it, but of course in the age of perpetual victimhood the reaction was only going to go one way.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,668 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    You can’t compare what happened to you and the lady in the article IMHO, you were physically lifted, I’d go as far as to say assaulted. Nobody actually interfered with that lady, they didn’t touch her.



    It’s not a hate crime, no hatred was shown towards her, nobody tried to incite hatred. Two young fellas had a laugh at her expense alright, but that was it. Had they touched her, verbally abused her etc., then you’d have a point.

    You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    Candie wrote: »
    If you're being bullied because of your color, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or any other difference, that is the definition of a hate crime.

    I don't agree. A hate crime is if you pathologically hate all dwarves, gays, or whatever your weird idea is and you want nothing better than to attack and kill those people. I doubt those two scrotes had a pathological hatred of dwarves and wanted them wiped from the surface of the planet.

    Bullying is making yourself feel superior by inflicting pain on others. There is an important distinction. In 2019 everything is pushed to the maximum possible worst interpretation.

    Pretty much all bullying is a hate crime under your interpretation.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    It’s not a hate crime, no hatred was shown towards her, nobody tried to incite hatered. Two young fellas had a laugh at her expense alright, but that was it. Had they touched her, verbally abused her etc., then you’d have a point.
    Ah Dougal, I can see a lot of similarities. They humiliated her and frightened her and the poor girl was very upset and now the spectre of it happening again will stay with her.

    I'm not saying it's the worst crime ever, but it does fit the legal description. It just wouldn't have happened her if she wasn't different - but what it's called is the least important thing about it. I hope she's okay.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.

    Correct. Battery is actually hitting them.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    You don't have to touch someone to assault them, as I understand it.
    Do you have an Irish legal definition from somewhere that supports this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Correct. Battery is actually hitting them.
    Here's a general definition.
    An assault is the act of inflicting physical harm or unwanted physical contact upon a person or, in some specific legal definitions, a threat or attempt to commit such an action. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal and/or civil liability.

    And our one

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/act/26/section/2/enacted/en/html


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    A definition of a hate crime requires violence. There was extreme harassment, bullying and very anti-social behaviour here.

    The lady was assaulted, as per the definition. It is a hate crime, perpetrated because of the group she belongs to, as per the definition.

    I'm not saying I agree with the term, I am just saying that the crime fits the legal definition. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    What is hate crime?
    ‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .

    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-crime/What-is-hate-crime-.html

    I don't believe these two assholes were motivated by hate. Just motivated by being scrotes. If they hated her they would have done a LOT more than just jump over her and laugh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Candie wrote: »
    If you're being bullied because of your color, sexual orientation, religion, disability, or any other difference, that is the definition of a hate crime.

    She was assaulted because she's a dwarf. It's not the worst hate crime imaginable but it fits the description.

    The two young lads don't hate her. They enjoyed causing her pain. The little feeling of power in humiliating her. They didn't give her enough thought to hate her, even dislike her.

    You can't educate that out of someone either. Not in a class room anyway. Life might evolve such a creature. Possibly through them being on the receiving end of a bit of pain. Then on the extreme end of the scale are people who aren't capable of feeling empathy at all. Modern research telling us such types are quite often high achieving.

    Giving others advise on how to deal with bad people and bad sh1t will probably just sound trite. Great minds through history have had a lot to say on it but it's all easier said than done. There's no easy answer.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭pawrick


    There is a serious issue around that area of Dublin with general crime etc. that has been ignored for many years. Stand around there for a while and you'll see people dealing, injecting in side streets, passed out drunk, shouting at passers by or attempting to snatch handbags and phones. I don't see it as a hate crime but as a social and policing issue with that particular part of Dublin which is an unruly kip.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    Candie wrote: »
    The lady was assaulted, as per the definition. It is a hate crime, perpetrated because of the group she belongs to, as per the definition.

    I'm not saying I agree with the term, I am just saying that the crime fits the legal definition. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.

    It doesn't fit the legal definition.

    ‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .


    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-crime/What-is-hate-crime-.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    It's not a hate crime.


    And anyway, the idea of a hate crime is bullsh1t. It's either a crime or it's not a crime.

    The idea with a hate crime is that it's motivated by racism or something like that. YOu get beaten up. that's a crime. You get beaten up because of your race, ethnicity, whatever, that's a hate crime.

    And there's a huge range of seriousness of hate crimes. So no-one is saying that what the woman in the OP experiences is the same as a lynching.

    Now, do you think that people should be free to insult every black person they walk past with racial abuse? It's only verbal and no physical assault takes place. Or if someone was jewish, or arab or whatever. Should it be legal to racially abuse them?

    Now, if you said yes, what's the difference between them and a little person?


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    You can't educate that out of someone either. Not in a class room anyway.

    There is only one way to "educate" people like that, but it's very illegal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    So, there's no sign of the video on the internet.


    But I did find out that leap frogging is banned in the dwarf olympics.









    And 4 midgets can beat a camel...





    A very close race though.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    It doesn't fit the legal definition.

    ‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .


    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-crime/What-is-hate-crime-.html

    You're right. I guess I just think it's a hateful act in itself to demean someone because of their difference.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    Grayson wrote: »

    Now, do you think that people should be free to insult every black person they walk past with racial abuse? It's only verbal and no physical assault takes place. Or if someone was jewish, or arab or whatever. Should it be legal to racially abuse them?

    Now, if you said yes, what's the difference between them and a little person?

    If they are specifically targeting black people, then it is racial abuse. If they are targeting ANYONE they see as a soft touch, who they think they can humiliate or frighten and get away with it, then it isn't. There is a big difference. It might not feel any different to the victim, but that's not the point.

    Those two "gents" would have been equally abusive to anyone else, especially anyone different than them. They would be just as likely to do something to me because I'm bald.

    The outcome might be the same, but the motivation is very different. Confusing one with the other spreads distrust in society.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Candie wrote: »
    You're right. I guess I just think it's a hateful act in itself to demean someone because of their difference.

    No, not a hateful act as they didn’t do it out of hatred. Highly insensitive yes, but not hateful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Candie wrote: »
    The lady was assaulted, as per the definition. It is a hate crime, perpetrated because of the group she belongs to, as per the definition.

    I'm not saying I agree with the term, I am just saying that the crime fits the legal definition. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
    It requires discrimination under one of the categories. Disability is about the only one that could be claimed but with this age group anti-social behaviour and possibly assault would be the only legal options that could be established.

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/children_and_young_offenders/anti_social_behaviour_by_children.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    You'd have to admit there is a hint of Monty Python about it, but of course in the age of perpetual victimhood the reaction was only going to go one way.
    You'd have to would you? Yeah the woman being upset by what those scumbags did to her when she was on her own and couldn't defend herself - could only be an example of perpetual victimhood (so fu*king what if it's like Monty Python? Does that mitigate it being a sh1tty thing to do to someone or are you really so enslaved to looking like an internet toughie that you can't even admit it?)

    The way people are so eager to show how tough and edgy they are here is quite something to behold. Not to mention the lengths to downplay the incident.

    And she *wasn't* assaulted?

    It's ok to be compassionate, honestly - it won't make you look like a snowflake (or whatever bollox term is getting used of late).


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    If they are specifically targeting black people, then it is racial abuse. If they are targeting ANYONE they see as a soft touch, who they think they can humiliate or frighten and get away with it, then it isn't. There is a big difference. It might not feel any different to the victim, but that's not the point.

    Those two "gents" would have been equally abusive to anyone else, especially anyone different than them. They would be just as likely to do something to me because I'm bald.

    The outcome might be the same, but the motivation is very different. Confusing one with the other spreads distrust in society.

    That means it can only be a hate crime if there's a certain amount of premeditation. Just scrolling past someone and calling them the n-word wouldn't count.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    It's also the latest thing where you get bonus points for some sort of discrimination based on your group identity.

    Straight white Irishman gets robbed and beaten in an attack .... unfortunate.
    Lesbian black short person gets robbed and beaten in an attack BY THE SAME PERSON .... HATE CRIME !!!!

    Some scrote spray paints a hammer and sickle symbol on well known gay bar in Dublin ... vandalism.
    Same scrote spray paints a Nazi symbol on well known gay bar in Dublin ... HATE CRIME !!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Yeah the woman being upset by what those scumbags did to her when she was on her own and couldn't defend herself - could only be an example of perpetual victimhood.

    The way people are so eager to show how tough and edgy they are here is quite something to behold. Not to mention the lengths to downplay it.

    And she *wasn't* assaulted?

    It's ok to be compassionate, honestly - it won't make you look like a snowflake (or whatever bollox term is getting used of late).

    Compassion runs both ways. A pair of inner city kids doing something stupid stuff may be "scumbags" like you say....or they may be young kids with **** parents, no education and lives that you wouldn't swap places with all too quickly....just saying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,076 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    Meh.

    Hate crime lol!!

    The real story here is the athleticism shown by the young fella! Future Olympian down the line ?


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    No, not a hateful act as they didn’t do it out of hatred. Highly insensitive yes, but not hateful.

    Ok, not motivated by hate, but still a hateful incident in that I hate that it happens, that anything like that happens anyone. Can we not agree on that much? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,060 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    It doesn't fit the legal definition.

    ‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .


    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Hate-crime/What-is-hate-crime-.html

    I have bolded an important part you seem to have missed.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    Grayson wrote: »
    That means it can only be a hate crime if there's a certain amount of premeditation. Just scrolling past someone and calling them the n-word wouldn't count.

    Strictly speaking, this is correct. However you would be in trouble for it. It's not a crime to call me a bald **** but it is to call me a ****** or a n-word.


  • Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭ Angie Silly Marinade


    I have bolded an important part you seem to have missed.

    ‘Any incident which is perceived by the victim or any other person as being motivated by hate, based on a person’s age, race, ethnicity, religious belief, gender identity, disability, or sexual orientation’ .

    Wow you are right !!! I certainly did miss that !!!!

    Then literally everything is a hate crime, as someone will perceive something perfectly innocent as a racial slur. That is a ridiculous definition.

    Imagine other crimes were defined like that .... "I perceive I was robbed by the defendant Your Honour, therefore the defendant is guilty, even though they were in Spain at the time". Or even worse "Johnny down the road perceived I was robbed, even though I perceive I wasn't, so the defendant is guilty".


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Candie wrote: »
    Ok, not motivated by hate, but still a hateful incident in that I hate that it happens, that anything like that happens anyone. Can we not agree on that much? :)

    Not really, you can’t redefine words! But I do understand what you mean! 😊


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    477674.png

    :D

    Mod-Banned


Advertisement