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Introducing the Current Affairs/IMHO forum

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  • Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    I know that's the official line, but I don't get why it's being so rigorously enforced in the new forum, considering its an evolvement of AH as sorts, where there's seemingly no problems in there.

    I see the ability to embed pictures has been removed recently too, but why in this forum?

    Signal to noise.

    Personally, I"ve never removed content from an original post, and unless whatever is posted is a serious breach of the site's TOU, I'm adamantly against any editing whatsoever.

    However, I also don't see the need to quote epic tracts of text just to add a one-liner at the end, nor is it necessary to quote large images or tweets. This isn't an issue specific to CA by the way - for as long as I remember, mobile users have complained about having to trawl through quoted images and text, and we try to accommodate that when possible.

    It's on a case by case basis - if someone is dissecting another posters post, fair enough, but if a large tract of text is quoted for seemingly no reason, then it doesn't seem too unreasonable to snip it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,116 ✭✭✭✭RasTa


    Surprised this thread is going but the mods want this type of interesting topic

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057994427

    Such gems such as
    But do Europeans aspire to be African? The presence of Africans in European advertising can't be coming from a sense of superiority, since the only field in which Africans excel is sport.

    Probably better suited to this new edgy current affairs forum


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    RasTa wrote: »
    Surprised this thread is going but the mods want this type of interesting topic

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057994427

    Such gems such as



    Probably better suited to this new edgy current affairs forum


    Edgy is certainly one word for it. It's the equivalent of r/the_donald/ was to Reddit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    At this stage you might as well just rename it the 'Rant about immigrants' forum. Every other thread is about how the brown people are destroying the purity of the white race and our precious Celtic Aryan ideals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    At this stage you might as well just rename it the 'Rant about immigrants' forum. Every other thread is about how the brown people are destroying the purity of the white race and our precious Celtic Aryan ideals.


    "New Irish" is the code for black people.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    MrFresh wrote: »
    "New Irish" is the code for black people.

    Think it boils down to a handful of regular but new posters who want to go on the racist rants. Probably just needs to be nipped in the bud.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    Is it acceptable to trot out the 'the word racist/Nazi etc. has lost all meaning' argument?

    This is a regular distraction technique from some of the more right-wing minded posters in CA and is a really dishonest way to 'debate'.

    The word still has the meaning it has always had, and people should not be allowed to deflect others' thoughts or attempt at discussion by hand waving away a word as 'having lost all meaning'.


  • Posts: 17,381 Ellie Nutty Spokesperson


    Is it acceptable to trot out the 'the word racist/Nazi etc. has lost all meaning' argument?

    This is a regular distraction technique from some of the more right-wing minded posters in CA and is a really dishonest way to 'debate'.

    The word still has the meaning it has always had, and people should not be allowed to deflect others' thoughts or attempt at discussion by hand waving away a word as 'having lost all meaning'.

    Right, so you want to be allowed to use those words however you like, but no one else can point out that you're wrong?

    Meanwhile noted Nazi GOP member Steve King has a nice patriotic re-tweet on July 4th for that well known defender of free speech, Colonel Nathan Jessup...

    Steve King is a noted Nazi now?

    Nope, because all we're hearing here is how the far left Antifa are the scum of the earth for attacking this guy, with a good few of the main right-wing wingnut posters in here giving out about it, and you're trying to speak as if your lot are blameless?


    Forget it, there is little to no equivalency between them so if you think we're going to listen to the likes of you pontificate about how these guys must be Nazis you can take a look at what's going on by your fellow travellers too.

    Here you called right wing posters on boards.ie Nazis.

    Yaxley-Lennon practically in tears after storming out of the counting centre

    Oh yes it's him being 'de-platformed' of course, that's why he wasn't elected, the fact that the voters mostly consider him an odious Nazi wouldn't be it of course

    And now you're saying most people voters think Tommy Robinson is a Nazi.



    Seems to me that if you want to claim those words have the same meaning as they always had, you might want to start using them correctly yourself, instead of whinging in here that people shouldn't be allowed to call you out on it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Walter Bishop


    Right, so you want to be allowed to use those words however you like, but no one else can point out that you're wrong?

    If someone has demonstrably shown they are a racist, they can be referred to as a racist, without this nonsense of 'oh that word has no meaning' as an attempt at defence. And Stephen15 is a racist, as he has admitted himself.
    Steve King is a noted Nazi now?

    Yes he is, he is a self-admitted white supremacist and extreme right-winger.
    And now you're saying most people voters think Tommy Robinson is a Nazi.

    I don't know about 'most', but many people certainly do think Steven Yaxley-Lennon is a Nazi, and with good reason. His vote in the recent elections, along with his odious and hypocritical rightwing views, would be enough for most.
    Seems to me that if you want to claim those words have the same meaning as they always had, you might want to start using them correctly yourself, instead of whinging in here that people shouldn't be allowed to call you out on it.

    Let anyone who calls someone a racist or Nazi without evidence be banned or carded or whatever, I don't care, but you and your ilk are not going to get to go around trying to shout down people by saying that the words they are using no longer have meaning simply because you declare it so.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Maybe yiz should stop trying to do the dance of trying to label each other and everyone else and have a discussion about something that means something.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Maybe yiz should stop trying to do the dance of trying to label each other and everyone else and have a discussion about something that means something.



  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    giphy.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    Maybe yiz should stop trying to do the dance of trying to label each other and everyone else and have a discussion about something that means something.

    To use an example, a user was referred to as racist because they said if a person isn't white, they can't be British. There are certain users that seem to want to make every single topic on the forum about race or Muslims and justifying racism. They've done so in past on after hours and just relocated now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,939 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The word still has the meaning it has always had, and people should not be allowed to deflect others' thoughts or attempt at discussion by hand waving away a word as 'having lost all meaning'.

    Steve King is a noted Nazi now?
    Yes he is, he is a self-admitted white supremacist and extreme right-winger.

    Right.

    A Nazi will no doubt be a 'white supremacist and extreme right-winger' among other things, but a white supremacist and extreme right-winger is not necessarily a Nazi.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,682 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I have to second the issue of using labels in order to detract from the topic at hand.

    For example, we are discouraged to use the word shinnerbot. Yet the word, partitionist is used with impunity and used in a deliberately inflammatory manner. It is not even the use of a label per say, it is used as a weapon to mostly wind other people up and paint them into a corner, time and time again.

    I have raised this with the mods, and have been asked to post here for feedback.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    So far the forum looks to be working.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    biko wrote: »
    So far the forum looks to be working.


    Yes, it really has given racism a place to flourish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,514 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

    Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.


  • Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Yes, it really has given racism a place to flourish.

    I think that's a quite unfair and oversimplistic assessment.

    In one feedback thread, mods are being accused of making judgements more on their feeling or emotions than in the fairness of discussion and deciding what discussions are worth having at all, in another, they are being accused of not getting involved and letting racism 'flourish'? No-win situation it seems.

    Racism is not being allowed to 'flourish' in CA, but in many cases, sunlight is the best disinfectant - posters are more than capable of calling out opinions they deem questionable, and we allow for both sides of that discussion. Yes, a reasonable percentage of our posters on both sides of the aisle have, from time to time, wandered into territory that could be considered questionable. Were we to insta-ban for such the place would certainly be calmer, if nothing else. We don't, and many posters pull their heads back in on sight of a mod warning, or being called out by the majority. Others who continue to push into genuine hate speech however, are steadily working their way up through the infraction process and out of the forum.

    Yes, that means it will take a little while for the forum to find its balance, and there will always be a few persistent trolls and rereg accounts, but it's still the fairest approach. As for those who advocate for instant bannings for speech with which they disagree? I'd say most of such should be happy we don't. Based on reports we get every day most posters in CA would be banned within a week under such a regime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    I have to second the issue of using labels in order to detract from the topic at hand.

    For example, we are discouraged to use the word shinnerbot. Yet the word, partitionist is used with impunity and used in a deliberately inflammatory manner. It is not even the use of a label per say, it is used as a weapon to mostly wind other people up and paint them into a corner, time and time again.

    I have raised this with the mods, and have been asked to post here for feedback.

    Lol.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    mike_ie wrote: »
    I think that's a quite unfair and oversimplistic assessment.


    I think it's right on the money.

    mike_ie wrote: »
    In one feedback thread, mods are being accused of making judgements more on their feeling or emotions than in the fairness of discussion and deciding what discussions are worth having at all, in another, they are being accused of not getting involved and letting racism 'flourish'? No-win situation it seems.


    It is. That's why you, and by that I mean Boards.ie in general, have to take a position. It sounds like you are allowing certain content to appear impartial or to appeal to as many people as possible. A good discussion isn't simply one that has two sides, there has to be quality and genuineness to it too.


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Racism is not being allowed to 'flourish' in CA, but in many cases, sunlight is the best disinfectant - posters are more than capable of calling out opinions they deem questionable, and we allow for both sides of that discussion. Yes, a reasonable percentage of our posters on both sides of the aisle have, from time to time, wandered into territory that could be considered questionable. Were we to insta-ban for such the place would certainly be calmer, if nothing else. We don't, and many posters pull their heads back in on sight of a mod warning, or being called out by the majority. Others who continue to push into genuine hate speech however, are steadily working their way up through the infraction process and out of the forum.


    Sunshine doesn't really work as a disinfectant in an anonymous forum.I'm not suggesting an inst ban for everyone but at least come down on the dog whistles. The Lost Lane thread still refers to "new irish" in the op, which is an obvious reference to black Irish people, with no evidence at all that black people were involved. Do you really not see the potential issues in allowing that kind of thing?


    mike_ie wrote: »
    Yes, that means it will take a little while for the forum to find its balance, and there will always be a few persistent trolls and rereg accounts, but it's still the fairest approach. As for those who advocate for instant bannings for speech with which they disagree? I'd say most of such should be happy we don't. Based on reports we get every day most posters in CA would be banned within a week under such a regime.


    Again, not something I mentioned. If you check, you'll see I previously started a Feedback thread on recognising the difference between unpopular opinions and hate speech. I have no issue with opposing opinion. I have an issue with baseless claims and bigotry, which are prolific, even if they don't break specific rules. I think Boards is behind the times with addressing this stuff. The site is being used to spread the same divisive stuff that led to Brexit and Trump. The larger social media sites have had to address this eventually. I think it's naive to think it won't have to be done here.


  • Posts: 17,381 Ellie Nutty Spokesperson


    MrFresh wrote: »
    I think Boards is behind the times with addressing this stuff.

    This is the strictest discussion site on the internet. I don't see how they're behind the times at all.

    Like so often, I'll ask you, do you have any solutions? Maybe this forum would be best named "Constructive Feedback" instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,682 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Lol.

    Great feedback JD! Well thought out and mature response there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    osarusan wrote: »
    The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

    Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.

    Maybe a minimum post count before being allowed to post or open threads at least


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    markodaly wrote: »
    Great feedback JD! Well thought out and mature response there.

    Nothing more needed to be said, it's a sanctionable offence on the politics forum to imply someone -. (Yourself even) may be a fine gael or govt shill, and so naturally enough, this carries over to implying/calling someone a "shinnerbot" which - if I understand correctly means they are posting on behalf of Sinn Fein, either as an official or unofficial shill.

    To me, it's a simple case of if a poster has, and constantly airs or post opinions that people interpret as being in favour of partition, well then that poster could rightfully be described as a partitionist, if you find the label offensive, perhaps tone down the partitionist persona and posts.

    Getting upset because you're not allowed to imply someone is posting for/or on behalf of a political party, isn't the same thing, not by any stretch.


    You basically are whinging that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't want them to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    There is already a report function to alert mods to posts that may be against forum charter.
    Forum charters already cover what needs to be covered.
    I don't see a need to have further restriction of opinions put in place.
    It isn't democratic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,682 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Nothing more needed to be said, it's a sanctionable offence on the politics forum to imply someone -. (Yourself even) may be a fine gael or govt shill, and so naturally enough, this carries over to implying/calling someone a "shinnerbot" which - if I understand correctly means they are posting on behalf of Sinn Fein, either as an official or unofficial shill.

    To me, it's a simple case of if a poster has, and constantly airs or post opinions that people interpret as being in favour of partition, well then that poster could rightfully be described as a partitionist, if you find the label offensive, perhaps tone down the partitionist persona and posts.

    Getting upset because you're not allowed to imply someone is posting for/or on behalf of a political party, isn't the same thing, not by any stretch.


    You basically are whinging that the rules shouldn't apply to you because you don't want them to.

    "That people interpret" are the key words there in your post JD.
    The issue at play in the UI thread at the moment is two-fold.

    If one airs anything less than 100% pure abject approval and joy at the prospect at a United Ireland at any cost, then you are classed as a partitionist. This language is straight out from the Brexit debacle over the in the UK

    Following on from that, the word itself is being used to aggressively provoke, inflame, virtue signal and label people into a box. Its use has exploded in the past few months with the aim to annoy more than to engage. It's the online Americanisation of language and labels, nothing more nothing else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    markodaly wrote:
    If one airs anything less than 100% pure abject approval and joy at the prospect at a United Ireland at any cost, then you are classed as a partitionist. This language is straight out from the Brexit debacle over the in the UK

    Welcome to Northern Ireland threads. I pity the mods who have to deal with them. As any regular observer of these threads will see its generally the same posters arguing over the same stuff ad nauseum. Where you end up with the hardliners on both sides and anyone who is any where near the middle ground gets pushed out, labelled, frustrated etc. It's nothing new. At one point the politics Forum had a separate sub forum specifically to allow separate rules for those threads(anyone can feel free to correct me that's based on my recollection). Having a separate Northern Ireland sub forum itself caused a degree of discontent at the time as well.

    How do you sort it encourage more moderate views on both sides to be seen ? To be fair over the years various mods have done their best and tried a number of different things. The issue is that for the hardliners on both sides politics based Northern Ireland threads are very emotitive with the history involved. This is something the mods can't change.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    osarusan wrote: »
    The reregs last far far too long before they get banned.

    Everybody know they are one, including mods and admin I'm sure, but whatever boxes need to be ticked to confirm it allow them to spew the same bile for weeks, months, before they finally get banned.




    There's one on there that has - at the bare minimum - 3 site banned previous accounts, that has been allowed to continue to post under yet another identity. I know the user base of boards is shrinking, but do we really need to tolerate that kind of thing?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,021 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Odhinn wrote: »
    There's one on there that has - at the bare minimum - 3 site banned previous accounts, that has been allowed to continue to post under yet another identity. I know the user base of boards is shrinking, but do we really need to tolerate that kind of thing?

    Please report these accounts and if anything sows up I'll ban them and the amins can look into them as well.


This discussion has been closed.
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