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Sewer work vs fruit picking

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭high_king


    I worked jobs picking avocados and kiwis in the past, back breaking stuff! It must be a tough one for the loony right wingers on here as they don't like cheap imported unskilled labour but upping the minimum wage goes against their beliefs too.

    actually both the left and right dictators love cheap imported unskilled labour


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,251 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    If you think so, I believe there are lots of vacancies. You should have no problem getting a job.

    I'd hazard a guess they value themselves much more highly than the minimum wage. Minimum wage is for people beneath them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    It's a bit counter intuitive that you're anti immigrant but want Irish people working worse jobs for less pay. You want to force Irish people down rather than bring others up

    Wrong on at least two counts. I am not anti immigrant. One of the distorting impacts of the minimum wage here is it makes goods from China for example more expensive to people from Nigeria for example. This is because our artificially high purchasing power is caused by the minimum wage at least for now. It also makes our employment black markets lucrative to migrants. The migrants would prefer if we did not price them out of international markets and ideally they would prefer to stay in their own countries. Such matters are of course of no interest to people who only pretend to be concerned about the welfare of migrants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper



    OP goes on about people working long hours on mushroom farms because of labour shortage due to low wages and concludes that if minimum wage was removed, and they could be paid less, that it would be better.

    Go and offer your services to a mushroom farmer at the weekends OP. Tell him you don't need minimum wage and report back to us on how you are getting on.

    By all means try to argue that minimum wage means some roles and jobs don't exist that might otherwise exist (I'm not saying I'm against minimum wage...just that there is a smidgin of very narrow logic to that view....which means it could be debated, but the above, I don't know where to start)

    I removed the blasphemy at the beginning of your post and reported you for it. As for the rest of your post, I declined to read it. No more blasphemy please!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    I removed the blasphemy at the beginning of your post and reported you for it. As for the rest of your post, I declined to read it. No more blasphemy please!

    You reported him for blasphemy? Christ on a bike that’s pathetic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Have you considered that minimum pay is exactly what it sounds like and not an upper limit as you seem to think?

    There is nothing preventing employers from paying more. Perhaps if they paid a living wage they might attract more employees ( even Irish ones :rolleyes:).

    The real minimum pay is the market rate. Because the market rate is below the minimum wage for many enterprises, those businesses cannot exist. Without a minimum wage, Irish people would find the market pay rate an acceptable living wage and I know this because I know they would do the work if the minimum wage was abolished.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭high_king


    The real minimum pay is the market rate. Because the market rate is below the minimum wage for many enterprises, those businesses cannot exist. Without a minimum wage, Irish people would find the market pay rate an acceptable living wage and I know this because I know they would do the work if the minimum wage was abolished.

    Maybe its time you stopped advocating for the exploitation of workers


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭LoughNeagh2017


    It is funny how people always say that the Irish/British don't want to do low paid jobs, if that is so then how did the work get done pre 2004? Who worked in the factories and warehouses, local people did and they had a better wage than they do now. In the 80s and 90s low paid men were able to build big rural bungalows like what my father did, a low paid worker couldn't do that now.

    As I've said before, work is the root cause of my future suicide, slaving away for £260 a week and causing your body serious damage in the process, no pass me the rope. People will just say "get a better job", if you are an autistic, average IQ man with anxiety issues you have no option but to do the lowest level jobs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    On the other hand, ground workers who have to work in the sewers probably get paid quite well and if it were simply a case of Irish people not wanting to do the work then those jobs would not be filled for any money.
    For safety reasons, exceptionally few people work in sewers. People won't fit in 95% of sewers and the systems are designed with minimum maintenance requirements and even at that, most of the work is done by machine or is at manholes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    €9.80 rising to €10.10 in May.

    But if everyone on minimum wage gets the pay rise the increase in purchasing power is minimized and if everyone on higher salaries ultimately get a pay rise by a similar differential, then in real terms, those on the minimum wage will end up being worse off because of it.

    By the way, this is just another symptom of easy money from the ECB, a policy which will be inflationary eventually.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    The 'keeper of reality' should be more worried about what the great unskilled will do with themselves
    - when automation snatches roughly 44% of their typical roles from their hands, as we head towards the 2030s.

    If an employer is told he must pay an employee more than they are worth, then he can either operate at a loss, or get rid of the employee and scale back production or automate production. In very small businesses, getting rid of the employee is more likely but for large businesses, automation or plant closure are more likely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    You have set the whole thing up with these assertions and then continued on without questioning them.
    Where is your proof Irish people don't want these jobs. Where is you proof of migrants being frequently paid less than the minimum wage.

    The main point where your thesis falls down OP is that our unemployment rate is relatively low OP. If employers are struggling to recruit it is because their prospective employees have better (better paid, better hours, easier work, closer to home or whatever people consider better) opportunities elsewhere, not because there are forced to pay too much.

    I suggest you go back and read the post again. I do not need to prove Irish people don`t want to do certain jobs because what I said was that I heard it said that Irish people don`t want to do certain jobs and then I poured cold water on that theory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    high_king wrote: »
    Maybe its time you stopped advocating for the exploitation of workers

    Do you realize if Ireland turns Communist, they won`t let us leave. Everyone in the country will effectively be a prisoner and a slave. Mind you, they will not be calling Communism Communism because it is a discredited ideology but whatever they call it, that is what it will be.

    Freedom means respecting market forces. The minimum wage and other anti free market policies will enslave us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    My cousin worked for dyna rod is it called? he said it was hilarious.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 418 ✭✭high_king


    Do you realize if Ireland turns Communist, they won`t let us leave. Everyone in the country will effectively be a prisoner and a slave. Mind you, they will not be calling Communism Communism because it is a discredited ideology but whatever they call it, that is what it will be.

    Freedom means respecting market forces. The minimum wage and other anti free market policies will enslave us.

    keep taking the pills


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Sewer workers are very skilled. Mad thread altogether


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    BDI wrote: »
    Sewer workers are very skilled. Mad thread altogether

    Nobody said otherwise. They are engineers in subterranean sanitation. But, my point is they still work with smelly slop and picking flowers might be nicer and so it is not true to say Irish people don`t want to do certain jobs. It is the minimum wage that causes Irish people to avoid private sector jobs that cannot pay the legal requirement. Obviously the dole helps them in this decision but if the minimum wage was lowered progressively over time to zero, then more and more non viable enterprises would become viable, not only to employers but to workers.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Nobody said otherwise. They are engineers in subterranean sanitation. But, my point is they still work with smelly slop and picking flowers might be nicer and so it is not true to say Irish people don`t want to do certain jobs. It is the minimum wage that causes Irish people to avoid private sector jobs that cannot pay the legal requirement. Obviously the dole helps them in this decision but if the minimum wage was lowered progressively over time to zero, then more and more non viable enterprises would become viable, not only to employers but to workers.

    Do you actually believe the stupidity contained in the above?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    Are you saying you want to starve people into doing manual labour for farmers for cheaper. The benefits or unique selling point of this scheme will be stopping the foreigners coming in?

    Are you a farmer that is fed up risking a fine because your foreign workers are being paid below minimum wage

    Or

    Are you a farmer who hates employing foreigners and would like to hire Irish people for below minimum wage?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Wait maybe we are not all working toward the same goal here.

    The goal of government is to provide the people it represents with the highest collective standard of living possible.

    That's what I believe should be legislated for. Can you explain how lowering minimum wage will help to achieve this?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Wait maybe we are not all working toward the same goal here.

    The goal of government is to provide the people it represents with the highest collective standard of living possible.

    That's what I believe should be legislated for. Can you explain how lowering minimum wage will help to achieve this?

    You are asking a sensible question off someone who on other threads has suggested the return of the Magdalene Laundries. Don't hold your breath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The OP's question is another tangent of... society was better when we were poor and rural and everyone knew their place.

    How dare people want a decent standard of living from the work they do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    mariaalice wrote: »
    The OP's question is another tangent of... society was better when we were poor and rural and everyone knew their place.

    How dare people want a decent standard of living from the work they do.

    Miceart. Industrialization is a good thing. Besides, we have not really been paid what we think we have earned. There is a 226,720,000,000 euro debt to be serviced (heading for the quarter trillion) which will make its presence felt when interest rates rise. The rise in interest rates is likely to coincide with diminished means to service the debt. After all, trade declines and factories close when recessions arise. The traditional response to a recession is to lower interest rates only we are already below zero. The new response to recession is to initiate QE, but we are already doing QE. If a recession comes,the amount of QE necessary will be gigantic and even if Germany, Holland and Finland went along with it, such measures would render the Euro worthless. I believe the next recession will cause the break up of the EU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,325 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Miceart. Industrialization is a good thing. Besides, we have not really been paid what we think we have earned. There is a 226,720,000,000 euro debt to be serviced (heading for the quarter trillion) which will make its presence felt when interest rates rise. The rise in interest rates is likely to coincide with diminished means to service the debt. After all, trade declines and factories close when recessions arise. The traditional response to a recession is to lower interest rates only we are already below zero. The new response to recession is to initiate QE, but we are already doing QE. If a recession comes,the amount of QE necessary will be gigantic and even if Germany, Holland and Finland went along with it, such measures would render the Euro worthless. I believe the next recession will cause the break up of the EU.

    Haven't you several post where this was supposed to happen a couple of years ago? in fact the world financial order was dommed and collapse was imminent, we were all to hoard gold or something, plus are you a little obsessed with recessions and depressions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Haven't you several post where this was supposed to happen a couple of years ago? in fact the world financial order was dommed and collapse was imminent, we were all to hoard gold or something, plus are you a little obsessed with recessions and depressions.

    Indeed, but the point is, it is a certainty which will worsen the longer it is postponed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Indeed, but the point is, it is a certainty which will worsen the longer it is postponed.

    so when is it next due then? Like next Tuesday maybe?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    so when is it next due then? Like next Tuesday maybe?

    So the point is, it is a certainty which will worsen the longer it is postponed.

    You seem to think the point is a dot on the screen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    So the point is, it is a certainty which will worsen the longer it is postponed.

    You seem to think the point is a dot on the screen.

    way to change your tune, from being utterly certain of the exact time frame in the past its now some nebulous future possibility?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Nobody said otherwise. They are engineers in subterranean sanitation. But, my point is they still work with smelly slop and picking flowers might be nicer and so it is not true to say Irish people don`t want to do certain jobs. It is the minimum wage that causes Irish people to avoid private sector jobs that cannot pay the legal requirement. Obviously the dole helps them in this decision but if the minimum wage was lowered progressively over time to zero, then more and more non viable enterprises would become viable, not only to employers but to workers.

    You are actually arguing that people would actually be better off it they were poorer.

    That sounds bat **** crazy to me.

    Oh and... Jesus Christ... reporting somebody for blasphemy???


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,841 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I removed the blasphemy at the beginning of your post and reported you for it. As for the rest of your post, I declined to read it. No more blasphemy please!


    If you didn't read the rest, how did you know that it wasn't full of blasphemy too??


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