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2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Gachla wrote: »
    Dublin weren't blessed to have Howard and O'Callaghan come through, they have a multi million euro system bringing players like that through. This system has not stopped, it will continue to create players.



    So what system created Clifford?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭vetinari


    blanch152 wrote: »
    From the 21 players that played in the 2015 final, there has only been Bastick, Alan Brogan and Paul Flynn who have left the panel. Two of the unused subs are gone - Brady and Savage - but the other three unused subs are still on the panel, meaning that 21 of the 26 named for the 2015 All-Ireland final are still involved with Dublin.


    Choosing to focus on the squad rather than the more obvious stat of starters is telling. 6 of the starting lineup changed between the 2015 and 2018 finals. That does not look like a team over relying on a few players.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Gachla


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    So what system created Clifford?

    Can you not defend the money pumped into Dublin GAA? By using deflection you immediately raise the white flag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Absolutely no doubt Dublin can dominate for another while yet

    I expect murchan, young bugler and Darren gavin to gradually slot into the team from next year


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,422 ✭✭✭flasher0030


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    So what system created Clifford?

    David Clifford is one of those once in a lifetime type players to come through - like Colm Cooper, Bernard Brogan, Ciaran MacDonald. Like as if he had a football attached to him at birth, and just constantly wanted to play ball as a young lad. Not someone who in their late teens is identified as a good player, and modelled into a machine though constant fitness, conditioning, bulk, diet etc.
    He was exceptional back in the under 12s and 14s. That's nothing to do with a system. I’d say as a youngster, that he was one of those who just wouldn't leave a football out of his hands.
    I don’t know anything about his background, but I would imagine he also received good encouragement from his parents re being brought to training and matches.
    I can’t imagine Fossa and East Kerry would have received large financial contributions from the GAA to develop underage development.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭Seadin


    David Clifford is one of those once in a lifetime type players to come through - like Colm Cooper, Bernard Brogan, Ciaran MacDonald. Like as if he had a football attached to him at birth, and just constantly wanted to play ball as a young lad. Not someone who in their late teens is identified as a good player, and modelled into a machine though constant fitness, conditioning, bulk, diet etc.
    He was exceptional back in the under 12s and 14s. That's nothing to do with a system. I’d say as a youngster, that he was one of those who just wouldn't leave a football out of his hands.
    I don’t know anything about his background, but I would imagine he also received good encouragement from his parents re being brought to training and matches.
    I can’t imagine Fossa and East Kerry would have received large financial contributions from the GAA to develop underage development.

    Clifford is good lads but he was never a colm Cooper. That man was a genius. He had it all on the pitch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    RTE released viewing figures for weekend:

    Dublin/Mayo - 688,700
    Tyrone/Kerry - 545,600
    Ireland/Italy - 268,100
    Aga Khan - 101,000


    Biggest sports attendance for team game in Europe at weekend.

    Doesn't seem that the boycott is catching hold boys!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    RTE released viewing figures for weekend:

    Dublin/Mayo - 688,700
    Tyrone/Kerry - 545,600
    Ireland/Italy - 268,100
    Aga Khan - 101,000


    Biggest sports attendance for team game in Europe at weekend.

    Doesn't seem that the boycott is catching hold boys!

    We all know that the first semi final had a great attendance. It was the other one people were concerned about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Gachla wrote: »
    Can you not defend the money pumped into Dublin GAA? By using deflection you immediately raise the white flag.



    Sick of people like you implying that Dublin players are "manufactured" while Clifford is supposed to have just dropped out of the sky because he was born in Kerry.

    Clifford is a good player but like other good players he was well coached and played within a good structure from the time he was a young lad. Just like Howard and con and Fenton who it is implied were created by money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    We all know that the first semi final had a great attendance. It was the other one people were concerned about.


    :)


    So people far prefer watching in person or on TV the team that is destroying the game?

    Well, at least we know you are not Ludwig Wittgenstein :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,038 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    vetinari wrote: »
    Choosing to focus on the squad rather than the more obvious stat of starters is telling. 6 of the starting lineup changed between the 2015 and 2018 finals. That does not look like a team over relying on a few players.

    It is now a squad game, rather than a team game. One of the many Jim Gavin innovations that gave Dublin an edge over the last few years was the use of the squad rather than the team to ensure that the team finishing the game was at its strongest.

    As I pointed out, there have been bigger changes in Kerry over that time period, those are the facts.

    It all comes down to Aslan at the end of the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,038 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    David Clifford is one of those once in a lifetime type players to come through - like Colm Cooper, Bernard Brogan, Ciaran MacDonald. Like as if he had a football attached to him at birth, and just constantly wanted to play ball as a young lad. Not someone who in their late teens is identified as a good player, and modelled into a machine though constant fitness, conditioning, bulk, diet etc.
    He was exceptional back in the under 12s and 14s. That's nothing to do with a system. I’d say as a youngster, that he was one of those who just wouldn't leave a football out of his hands.
    I don’t know anything about his background, but I would imagine he also received good encouragement from his parents re being brought to training and matches.
    I can’t imagine Fossa and East Kerry would have received large financial contributions from the GAA to develop underage development.


    Clifford is good but his free-taking isn’t at Dean Rock levels, his point-taking and work rate aren’t at Paul Mannion levels and his goal-scoring isn’t at Con O’Callaghan levels, and he has won nothing yet. That will come but it is much too early to give him that kind of praise.

    As for Kerry manufacturing footballers, why do you think they won five-in-a-row at minor level? Because they put alll their money into elite underage player development rather than mass participation as Dublin did. The Kerry model is geared towards inter-county success, the Dublin model towards giving every kid a chance. Big difference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    :)


    So people far prefer watching in person or on TV the team that is destroying the game?

    Well, at least we know you are not Ludwig Wittgenstein :)

    The two teams that always draw the biggest crowds (One also representing the biggest city in the country) draw the biggest crowd.

    What a surprise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    RTE released viewing figures for weekend:

    Dublin/Mayo - 688,700
    Tyrone/Kerry - 545,600
    Ireland/Italy - 268,100
    Aga Khan - 101,000


    Biggest sports attendance for team game in Europe at weekend.

    Doesn't seem that the boycott is catching hold boys!

    As previously pointed out Dublin Mayo got attention because of the past battles between the two.

    Dublin Galway got less than 450k.

    The 2017 All Ireland final got 1.15 million, last years final got 850k.

    None of this is Dublin’s fault btw.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Gachla


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Sick of people like you implying that Dublin players are "manufactured" while Clifford is supposed to have just dropped out of the sky because he was born in Kerry.

    Clifford is a good player but like other good players he was well coached and played within a good structure from the time he was a young lad. Just like Howard and con and Fenton who it is implied were created by money.

    Dublin's structures have created 5 All Ireland winning u20/21 teams sice 2003, they never won any before then. How did Dublin suddenly start creating these super underage talents who've gone on to star at senior level? They are not just one offs, there's a long list of them. Can you explain that without having to resort to deflection or abuse?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Gachla


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Clifford is good but his free-taking isn’t at Dean Rock levels, his point-taking and work rate aren’t at Paul Mannion levels and his goal-scoring isn’t at Con O’Callaghan levels, and he has won nothing yet. That will come but it is much too early to give him that kind of praise.

    As for Kerry manufacturing footballers, why do you think they won five-in-a-row at minor level? Because they put alll their money into elite underage player development rather than mass participation as Dublin did. The Kerry model is geared towards inter-county success, the Dublin model towards giving every kid a chance. Big difference.

    Dublin underage development squads have more money pumped into them than most senior inter county teams!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    According to the Cassandras here, the logic should be that crowds and interest are falling dramatically. because of Dublin. Clearly that is not the case.

    In fact there was a bigger crowd - 35, 115 - at the Dublin/Mayo league game in the Spring, than at the other semi final yesterday.

    Main factor in lower crowds if that is true would seem not to be Dublin at all.

    Reason there was a small crowd at the Dublin/Galway semi final was that there were not even 1,000 Galway supporters there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    According to the Cassandras here, the logic should be that crowds and interest are falling dramatically. because of Dublin. Clearly that is not the case.

    In fact there was a bigger crowd - 35, 115 - at the Dublin/Mayo league game in the Spring, than at the other semi final yesterday.

    Main factor in lower crowds if that is true would seem not to be Dublin at all.

    Attendances is falling at matches involving all counties including Dublin. Claiming otherwise is burying head in the sand stuff. All Ireland semi final last year with Dublin had 45k, look at Leinster championship games that were once sellout and now the ground is half full for the final.

    Seriously you should approach the discussion with a degree of realism at least.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Post truth GAA. Alternative facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭Gachla


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    According to the Cassandras here, the logic should be that crowds and interest are falling dramatically. because of Dublin. Clearly that is not the case.

    In fact there was a bigger crowd - 35, 115 - at the Dublin/Mayo league game in the Spring, than at the other semi final yesterday.

    Main factor in lower crowds if that is true would seem not to be Dublin at all.

    Reason there was a small crowd at the Dublin/Galway semi final was that there were not even 1,000 Galway supporters there.

    Dublin only bring 10,000 to their neutral Leinster championship games.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    I give you facts and you ignore them.

    It is like playing handball against a haystack.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,208 ✭✭✭ClanofLams


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    I give you facts and you ignore them.

    It is like playing handball against a haystack.

    You’re bizarrely claiming Dublin are somehow immune form falling attendances? Examine Leinster championship attendances a decade ago to now. Dublin would have filled Croker on their own a decade ago for an All Ireland semi final and I agree with you the crowd from Galway was bad.

    You implied the Dubs tv viewing figures weren’t being impacted at all. When I came back to you with facts proving the declining interest, you ignored it.

    Everyone is acknowledging all counties are suffering from less interest and falling attendance. Your nonsensical argument that Dublin are somehow immune from it doesn’t stack up to reality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    blanch152 wrote: »
    The Kerry model is geared towards inter-county success, the Dublin model towards giving every kid a chance. Big difference.

    Why do you keep churning this old chestnut out? It's been debunked time and again on the other thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    You’re bizarrely claiming Dublin are somehow immune form falling attendances? Examine Leinster championship attendances a decade ago to now. Dublin would have filled Croker on their own a decade ago for an All Ireland semi final and I agree with you the crowd from Galway was bad.

    You implied the Dubs tv viewing figures weren’t being impacted at all. When I came back to you with facts proving the declining interest, you ignored it.

    Everyone is acknowledging all counties are suffering from less interest and falling attendance. Your nonsensical argument that Dublin are somehow immune from it doesn’t stack up to reality.

    They're well aware of declining attendances. Has also been outlined many times on the "changes in the GAA thread". They usually deflect and obfuscate and blame everything from the recession to bad weather to a vast anti-Dub conspiracy. Rather the real reason which is Dublin's unfair dominance built from the multiple advantages they have on everyone else.

    Bringing it back to the 2019 season, we could well look back in future years at the Mayo-Dublin game as the last sellout semi-final in Croke Park in gaelic football as people continue to lose interest and attendances continue their downward spiral.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,026 ✭✭✭C__MC



    Morrissey trying to enhance his ego in anyway
    RTE should be ashamed of their coverage


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    C__MC wrote: »
    Morrissey trying to enhance his ego in anyway
    RTE should be ashamed of their coverage

    He's a durty weasel. He belongs in the Ballydung Manor.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,759 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    gaffer91 wrote: »
    Why do you keep churning this old chestnut out? It's been debunked time and again on the other thread.


    Is that the sticky thread where everyone goes to rant, a sorta GAA After Hours thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,069 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    I give you facts and you ignore them.

    It is like playing handball against a haystack.

    Oh ya fecking cute hoors, if that is the way ye are training the handballers there is no fecking way we can compete against ye in that either.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    ClanofLams wrote: »
    Attendances is falling at matches involving all counties including Dublin. Claiming otherwise is burying head in the sand stuff. All Ireland semi final last year with Dublin had 45k, look at Leinster championship games that were once sellout and now the ground is half full for the final.

    Seriously you should approach the discussion with a degree of realism at least.

    Attendances are indeed falling at games.

    However, attendances not involving Dublin are diabolical. That attendance at the semi final on Sunday was an embarrassment. There was minor game involving the same county playing in the senior game on before it.

    I saw you quoting TV figures earlier and making a wild stab about why that is.

    TV viewing figures are falling in general, not just in GAA.

    However the figures are still healthy.

    For example the Top 5 programmes watched in June were all sport, 4 of them GAA. The Top 10 programmes watched on RTE2 are all Sport, 8 of them GAA related.

    What is the point you are trying to make just as a matter of interest ?


This discussion has been closed.
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