New Landlord Tax Advice

regvw · 04-09-2018 9:43pm #1

Hi Guys,
looking for a bit of help

I rented my home in August, I think I have done everything correctly registered the rental with PRB, cancelled TRS, got landlord insurance etc

Now I want to get an understanding of what I need to do from tax perspective, I know I need to fill a form 11 or 12 or something by end of October.
wondering what can I claim for or how I can fill this in or if i need an accountant to do so.

any other relevant help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
Reg

ted1 · 04-09-2018 9:44pm

regvw wrote: »

Hi Guys,
looking for a bit of help

I rented my home in August, I think I have done everything correctly registered the rental with PRB, cancelled TRS, got landlord insurance etc

Now I want to get an understanding of what I need to do from tax perspective, I know I need to fill a form 11 or 12 or something by end of October.
wondering what can I claim for or how I can fill this in or if i need an accountant to do so.

any other relevant help would be greatly appreciated
thanks
Reg

It’s October next year

Pawwed Rig · 04-09-2018 9:45pm

August this year or last year? If this year then nothing needs to be declared until next year.

mr_cochise · 04-09-2018 10:01pm

You will need to file F12 by October 2019 for the tax year 2018.
If you are a PAYE worker then any tax owed to Revenue will/can be taken by adjusting your tax credits in 2020.

Samuel T. Cogley · 04-09-2018 11:39pm

Get an accountant, it tax deducatable and mine does all mine and the wife's tax for his fee.

regvw · 05-09-2018 9:29am

Hi Guys,
I know I can let this go for the first year to 2019, but I can pay 2018 in October also.

this is my preferred option, I am wondering how much are you paying your accountants for this service and is anyone doing the return themselves, if so is there a list to explain what we can claim

many thanks
Reg

Samuel T. Cogley · 05-09-2018 10:17am

Hi Reg,

IIRC I pay about 350.

ted1 · 05-09-2018 11:16am

regvw wrote: »

Hi Guys,
I know I can let this go for the first year to 2019, but I can pay 2018 in October also.

this is my preferred option, I am wondering how much are you paying your accountants for this service and is anyone doing the return themselves, if so is there a list to explain what we can claim

many thanks
Reg

The tax year is Jan-Dec. You can’t pay 3 months before the end of the tax year as you don’t have the income for the last three months

Spook_ie · 05-09-2018 11:27am

Be aware though that in Oct 2019 you will be expected to also pay preliminary tax for 2019.

pc7 · 05-09-2018 11:46am

Spook_ie wrote: »

Be aware though that in Oct 2019 you will be expected to also pay preliminary tax for 2019.

Was just about to mention preliminary tax, its a dog. Even though first year or two you will likely be running at a deficit, I'd start a direct debit (even a small amount now) monthly to Revenue to start working towards your prelim tax when the time comes. It can be a right B**tard to be honest. I can't figure out how Revenue get away with it, they must have millions on deposit from it. Pay tax now on money you may not earn.

regvw · 05-09-2018 11:57am

god what is preliminary tax

what is IIRC Samuel

thanks Guys

will I make anything out of this at all when everything is paid

Reg

Gumbo · 05-09-2018 12:13pm

regvw wrote: »

god what is preliminary tax

what is IIRC Samuel

thanks Guys

will I make anything out of this at all when everything is paid

Reg

Pre Lim Tax - Payments now to offset your liability for next year.
IIRC - If I Recall Correctly

Profit - most likely no after all taxes and fees and expenses, but if you break even you are doing very well

Get an accountant. Their fee is 100% tax deductible. You may do a return and pay 100 too much, or 100 too little, get them to do it correctly.

pc7 · 05-09-2018 1:26pm

kceire wrote: »

Profit - most likely no after all taxes and fees and expenses, but if you break even you are doing very well

.

Also you will have an asset that is being paid for, but it takes one bad tenant to even ruin that, honestly I would consider it deeply. I'm an accidental landlord and could now probably sell but have decided to keep at it as I reckon the smallies won't thank me for getting rid of a house when they are older, who knows?

Browney7 · 05-09-2018 1:31pm

pc7 wrote: »

Was just about to mention preliminary tax, its a dog. Even though first year or two you will likely be running at a deficit, I'd start a direct debit (even a small amount now) monthly to Revenue to start working towards your prelim tax when the time comes. It can be a right B**tard to be honest. I can't figure out how Revenue get away with it, they must have millions on deposit from it. Pay tax now on money you may not earn.

Is it not that you pay the final 2018 liability in October 2019 and the preliminary payment at that point covers the 2019 year - ie you will have received rent from January to October 2019 so it's not that much in advance?

pc7 · 05-09-2018 1:43pm

Browney7 wrote: »

Is it not that you pay the final 2018 liability in October 2019 and the preliminary payment at that point covers the 2019 year - ie you will have received rent from January to October 2019 so it's not that much in advance?

Yeah may have worded it wrong but it was a big shock the first time I had to pay. I felt my accountant should have advised me prior to the years it fell due. I know others who were caught out. I now just lodge money monthly so it’s not a big outlay.

Bandana boy · 05-09-2018 2:58pm

Am I reading this correctly
So if I rented in November 2017
I have to do a return for November and December 2017 only by this October ?

pc7 · 05-09-2018 3:45pm

Bandana boy wrote: »

Am I reading this correctly
So if I rented in November 2017
I have to do a return for November and December 2017 only by this October ?

If you rented out your property wholly not rent a room job, then yes you will need to do a return, (not if you rented as a tenant).

Spook_ie · 05-09-2018 9:34pm

Bandana boy wrote: »

Am I reading this correctly
So if I rented in November 2017
I have to do a return for November and December 2017 only by this October ?

The DEADLINE for a tax year is the 31st of October the following year, just means no grace after that date, you can do your return any date prior to that, miss the deadline and pay penalties or file earlier so that you have some leeway for corrections.

Of course you could always file early and just ensure that you pay by the deadline of 31/10.

Spook_ie · 05-09-2018 9:38pm

pc7 wrote: »

If you rented out your property wholly not rent a room job, then yes you will need to do a return, (not if you rented as a tenant).

Hmmm, think you'll find that you should be filling out a return anyway, there is no tax to pay on letting a room ONLY if it falls within guidelines.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/personal-tax-credits-reliefs-and-exemptions/land-and-property/rent-a-room-relief/index.aspx

Morpheus · 11-09-2018 3:25pm

How do you calculate the tax? I too am an accidental landlord and just rented out my home. Couldnt get the full amount to cover my mortgage payments, but had little option other than renting it out. now looking for a reputable accountant

Uriel. · 12-09-2018 8:44am

Do you need to pay preliminary tax as a PAYE worker that has one rental property. I've been renting my house out for 7 years and I do my form 12 return every Feb. Every year I get my balancing statement and it says it will recover the tax by reduxing credits in the following years. They never say anything about prelims tax

Edgware · 12-09-2018 8:58am

For the standard one or two property landlord the accountant fee should be about 350 and is is an expense claimed against tax liability. Use an accountant as they can save you tax. For example Inever realised that I could claim the travel costs (withot receipt) for inspection visits. You could claim about 500 for that but if you have higher costs keep receipts.

If you are only renting for a few months this year you will have a small preliminary tax liability but you will be hit for full liability thenin 2019 to pay for 2020. Once you are on the ladder you will be ok and if your rental income falls you will have a credit.
Keep receipts for everything even as small as a pucture hook. It all ads up

The most important thing to realise is that this is a business. The tenants are clients not friends. Of course there are horror stories about tenants (and landlords) but with the right tenant selection you will be fine.
Also be selective when buying appliances. There are some suppliers where youmight get an extra few years warranty at no extra charge etc. Keep copies of the manuals and let the tenants know that they must operate as per manual.
You wont make massive profit but I have done it for a number of years and it is a good pension fund

holidaysong · 12-09-2018 11:25am

I'm also going to be an accidental landlord myself in the next month and was assuming I'd just do the tax myself but the advise here seems to be overwhelmingly to get an accountant.

Good advise thread for anyone stumbling into this, thanks!

Morpheus · 12-09-2018 11:53am

Yeah, i've set up an appointment with an accountant next week - i am just an unlucky PAYE worker and now accidental landlord, so the thoughts of having an accountant was quite intimidating.

ted1 · 13-09-2018 7:48am

Uriel. wrote: »

Do you need to pay preliminary tax as a PAYE worker that has one rental property. I've been renting my house out for 7 years and I do my form 12 return every Feb. Every year I get my balancing statement and it says it will recover the tax by reduxing credits in the following years. They never say anything about prelims tax

No need to pay it. Just pay before October the following year.

ted1 · 13-09-2018 7:52am

holidaysong wrote: »

I'm also going to be an accidental landlord myself in the next month and was assuming I'd just do the tax myself but the advise here seems to be overwhelmingly to get an accountant.

Good advise thread for anyone stumbling into this, thanks!

I’d say there’s no need for an accountant. They’ll only tell you something silly like pay Prem tax.

Form 12 is easy to fill up.
Record all your expenses, check on the revenue list if they are deductible, allow 12.5% depreciation for items in the house. Allow for mortgage intrest (limits are in the website (

USC is on income not profit.

holidaysong · 13-09-2018 1:54pm

ted1 wrote: »

I’d say there’s no need for an accountant. They’ll only tell you something silly like pay Prem tax.

Form 12 is easy to fill up.
Record all your expenses, check on the revenue list if they are deductible, allow 12.5% depreciation for items in the house. Allow for mortgage intrest (limits are in the website (

USC is on income not profit.

From my understanding on the Revenue site, form 12 is only if taxable income would be less than €5,000 - otherwise the form 11 is required.

Or am I mistaken here?

If your gross non-PAYE income is more than €30,000 or your net non-PAYE income is more than €5,000 a year, you must submit a Form 11 instead.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/do-employees-need-to-submit-tax-returns/index.aspx

ted1 · 13-09-2018 4:12pm

holidaysong wrote: »

From my understanding on the Revenue site, form 12 is only if taxable income would be less than €5,000 - otherwise the form 11 is required.

Or am I mistaken here?

If your gross non-PAYE income is more than €30,000 or your net non-PAYE income is more than €5,000 a year, you must submit a Form 11 instead.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/jobs-and-pensions/do-employees-need-to-submit-tax-returns/index.aspx

All landlords net income should be below 5K

Although plenty of landlords will be pushing above the 30k limit.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-09-2018 6:23pm

Slightly curious why it's silly to pay premlim tax when it's a requirement AFAIK.

ted1 · 13-09-2018 11:42pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Slightly curious why it's silly to pay premlim tax when it's a requirement AFAIK.

Because they don’t look for people to pay it. Filing before the following October keeps them happy

Pawwed Rig · 13-09-2018 11:49pm

Ah some people like to pay for things in advance. Prelim is one of those things. I have seen Revenue apply interest for non/late payment but admittedly not very often.

New Landlord Tax Advice

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