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Drawing nude/semi-nude underage girls - is that also pedophilia?

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,954 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    Would it be this kind of thing?

    Probably NSFW, but features no nudity.

    http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/6379/000009e4006.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,736 ✭✭✭OctavarIan


    Doc wrote: »
    Without having seen any of the images how can any of you judge if it is or not. I personally think it is wrong that an artists work be associated with pedophilia just because it depicts nude or semi nude children.

    This.

    I can't understand the mentality of someone who'd say any image of naked/semi-naked children is child pornography. I mean, take obvious examples everyone knows like charity advertisements and wartime photojournalism. Yes there are naked children in them, but there's nothing sexual about them. Like the statute says, it's child porn if the child is depicted in a sexual act or if the focus of the image is solely on the genitals. Without seeing the images the OP was talking about it's impossible to say if they did cross that line, and no-one should attempt to do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,167 ✭✭✭Notorious


    33 posts and nobody has asked for pics?

    AH used to be cool.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    If its the kind of thing Chopperbyrne linked then most of Japan would be in jail (if they were in Ireland) Japan the land of the used undies tray.

    http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    mike65 wrote: »
    If its the kind of thing Chopperbyrne linked then most of Japan would be in jail (if they were in Ireland) Japan the land of the used undies tray.

    http://www.snopes.com/risque/kinky/panties.asp

    There is a japanese pornstar called Kitty. She looks way younger than the girl in the OP. Last year a judge in the UK convicted a guy of having child porn on his PC because he had a ton oh her clips.

    His solicitor protested that the girl was 18-21 years of age on all clips but the judge said the law in the UK is clear. The girl looks like a child and so it's hardcore child pornography.

    He got seven years.

    Realises nobody is reading this as they are all off Google'ing Kitty the Japanese Pornstar :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,173 ✭✭✭D


    I thought it was ruled that even images depicting underage people was illegal.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 280 ✭✭Ziggurat


    I see your point, Victor, but isn't it fair to say that such debilitating effects could be seen in any reasonable person? Whatever about mental focus (heightened levels of adrenaline would not be conducive to a calm driving experience, I admit) a change in depth perception would be more easily observed.

    I don't think you can say that any reasonable person, after viewing drawn images of child porn, will go out and molest children.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    There is a japanese pornstar called Kitty. She looks way younger than the girl in the OP. Last year a judge in the UK convicted a guy of having child porn on his PC because he had a ton oh her clips.

    His solicitor protested that the girl was 18-21 years of age on all clips but the judge said the law in the UK is clear. The girl looks like a child and so it's hardcore child pornography.

    He got seven years.

    Realises nobody is reading this as they are all off Google'ing Kitty the Japanese Pornstar :)
    It's this sort of thing that shows that the laws are too strict rather than lax. The law is clear? I thought, and I'm pretty sure most people think that the law is that if the girl is under 18, it's illegal. If this starts a precedent, who knows what will be deemed as looking under 18? We'll all be forced to appreciate massive breasts and asses and MILF porn will be all that's left on the net.

    As a citizen, I resent that the actions of a few terrorists restrict my freedom and privacy. As an artist, I resent that the actions of several other minority groups restrict what I can draw on a piece of paper.
    Lolicon is pretty pathetic but so is Hentai imo. I don't see how it harms anyone however so making it illegal seems more of a control thing. As a libertarian, all pointless laws irritate me and when no child is being exploited here, this seems like a pointless law to me. Like it or not, some people have unhealthy sexual appetites, it is not for us to flush them out until it becomes clear that the person is a danger to society.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Kold wrote: »
    As a citizen, I resent that the actions of a few terrorists restrict my freedom and privacy. As an artist, I resent that the actions of several other minority groups restrict what I can draw on a piece of paper..

    If you read the court reports you would be shocked to the core (both here and the UK) at what people are jailed for and on what loose evidence.

    For instance.

    Everytime you VIEW a wepage it can have hundreds of little jpegs and gifs. Your browser stores these images in it's cache. The cache uses your PC's hardrive and so now all these images are recoverable using software.

    Now you may have only viewed that webpage once but according to the law. If an image is found on your hard disk you are guilty of 'making' that image.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭Bonavox


    Well wasn't Barts penis shown in The Simpsons Movie? We don't see Matt Groening getting arrested =/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    If you read the court reports you would be shocked to the core (both here and the UK) at what people are jailed for and on what loose evidence.

    For instance.

    Everytime you VIEW a wepage it can have hundreds of little jpegs and gifs. Your browser stores these images in it's cache. The cache uses your PC's hardrive and so now all these images are recoverable using software.

    Now you may have only viewed that webpage once but according to the law. If an image is found on your hard disk you are guilty of 'making' that image.
    0_0 I go on 4chan... 2 secs while I go destroy my hard drive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,252 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    WindSock wrote: »
    However how he could manage to muster up any sort of fantasy with my manky uniform, I don't know.

    I think the uniforms they go for would be less convent girl with an oversized jumper (you'll grow into it dear) and more Britney in a mini. :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,920 ✭✭✭✭Gummy Panda


    Kold wrote: »
    0_0 I go on 4chan... 2 secs while I go destroy my hard drive.

    Throw it in the microwave man. I seen it in a film once..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Bono Vox wrote: »
    Well wasn't Barts penis shown in The Simpsons Movie? We don't see Matt Groening getting arrested =/

    I wanna see Marge's lady bits and then see her banged by Mo the Bartender over the kitchen table while Homer sleeps.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 432 ✭✭RealEstateKing


    (1) The main reason why pictures of naked children are illegal is because it involves the actual exploitation and brutalisation of a child to make them. If the picture in question is a drawing, then this doesnt apply, assuming it wasn't drawn from life.

    (2) Second issue is how sexualised the picture is. There is nothing wrong with pictures of naked children per se - Western Art is full of Cherubs, Cupids and frolicking nymphs and so on to Nirvanas Nevermind. It is when the image is sexualised that it enters the greay area.

    (3) The most controversial element is the sexualisation of young, but not actually pre-pubescent girls. We, have, for the sake of convenience, set a bar at 16 below which it is illegal to go. But of course this bar has no basis in nature: An individual only has mental problems if he is sexually interested in girls/boys below the age where they become sexually mature (13 or so). It is perfectly natural to have some sexual interest in Girls/boys after that age, though of course not entirely indicative of a healthy adult attitude to matters sexual. (i.e. it's a bit sad, but not actually sick)

    The Japanese anime type stuff seems to be playing into this area of male sexuality. the desire for young, skinny, weak-looking teenage girls. Its not entirely healthy, but as long as the girls in question are sexually mature, and no actual girls are involved in the making of the pictures, I wouldnt worry about it too much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34,283 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    This really annoys me. People should be able to draw or create whatever imagery they want. It's just extending your ideas down on to paper. Banning it is verging on thought police.

    In all my years in art college a lot of the imagery I saw created by students was extremely sexual. Some of it did involve what appeared to be children. No children were harmed or used as sources in the process. It was all from their (rather disturbed) minds. Therefore it is not child pornography.

    This is just the usual 'OMFG CHILD PORNZ THINK OF THE CHILDERS BAN CENSOR AH AH AH' over reactionary bull. They need to go after actual child pornographers and leave these easy targets alone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    o1s1n wrote: »
    This is just the usual 'OMFG CHILD PORNZ THINK OF THE CHILDERS BAN CENSOR AH AH AH' over reactionary bull. They need to go after actual child pornographers and leave these easy targets alone.

    People love to hate pedos almost as much as they love chocolate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    TBH, this is a humanities debate, it has more to do with morals.

    I have no problem with it TBH, none at all. It's drawings of people who don't exist, noone is being exploited or hurt. I don't view it because TBH, I am not a huge art fan. But if people like it, then more power to him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭bluto63


    Pornography has no artistic merit and is solely for the purpose of stimulating someone sexually. If that's all this image has done it is pornography. However, if this wasn't the purpose of the image well then it's art


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    bluto63 wrote: »
    Pornography has no artistic merit and is solely for the purpose of stimulating someone sexually. If that's all this image has done it is pornography. However, if this wasn't the purpose of the image well then it's art

    Yes, but the point is .. society does not always see it as black and white. Many people have done time over having 'art' on their PC.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,082 ✭✭✭Pygmalion


    sron wrote: »
    Isn't the point of criminalising paedophilia to protect children? If no children are being harmed, what's the problem? Just because you find what someone **** over disgusting doesn't mean he should face a jail term. Edges on thought-crime in a way.
    This.

    Some 30 year old taking time out of playing WoW to **** over some badly drawn 7 year olds is pretty ****ed up, but no-one gets hurt by it and it'd be pretty unfair to treat him the same as a child rapist (obviously he wouldn't get nearly as severe a punishment and may not get jail time even, but once a newspaper picks up on the story everyone will be led to believe he's the evil offspring of Charles Manson and Josef Fritzl)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    Pygmalion wrote: »
    ...[stuff]...

    I would just like to say that considering the currant debate in this thread on the narrow difference between porn and art, your Username is brilliant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,875 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    I would just like to say that considering the currant debate in this thread on the narrow difference between porn and art, your Username is brilliant.

    I would like to thank the OP for raisin the issue :D!

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    There was a case in Australia (I'm too scared to Google), where a man who had that picture of Bart and Lisa having sex was convicted of child pornography.

    There is tons of Simpsons porn online. I have seen Marge gangbanged. Seen Homer and his sister in laws have rough sex. You name it. I wouldn't watch any Crusty The Clown stuff now though .. I'm not sick you know!!

    /looks around all paranoid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭bluto63


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    There is tons of Simpsons porn online. I have seen Marge gangbanged. Seen Homer and his sister in laws have rough sex. You name it. I wouldn't watch any Crusty The Clown stuff now though .. I'm not sick you know!!

    /looks around all paranoid.

    It's in ads on the side of the window too, so regardless of whether you wanted to see it, you did. Bart and Lisa gettin it on, Bart and Marge, all sorts of weird images. And there's also Disney porn...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    bluto63 wrote: »
    And there's also Disney porn...

    Really?

    *looks around nervous*

    You got any Goofy on Minnie Mouse action?


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Pedophilia is not a choice. I've seen a documentry where people genuinly suffer with it because they know that it is wrong but they can't help being attracted to children. Imagine being told that being attracted to women/men is unacceptable? It isn't something you can turn off, even if you don't do anything about it, it's going to hurt.

    Looking at it from that point of view, surely it's better for them to **** off to pictures rather than actual child porn, where children suffered?

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    Pedophilia is not a choice. I've seen a documentry where people genuinly suffer with it because they know that it is wrong but they can't help being attracted to children?

    Okay .. *puts serious hat back on* ..

    I agree somewhat but let me ask you .. what's a child? There are people who say 16 year olds are kids and if you see one and think she's hot then your a pedo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Yes, but the point is .. society does not always see it as black and white. Many people have done time over having 'art' on their PC.

    Art is quite subjective though.

    Look at Peewee Herman, he got fcuked becuase of Kitsch he had!!


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  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,195 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    OutlawPete wrote: »
    Okay .. *puts serious hat back on* ..

    I agree somewhat but let me ask you .. what's a child? There are people who say 16 year olds are kids and if you see one and think she's hot then your a pedo.
    Sorry, by child I meant pre-pubescent

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



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