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Approval in Principle to arrange viewing

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    #62
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    An ea can only charge one side of a transaction either vendor or purchaser but not both.

    fair enough
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Other than the amount of loan approval there is little or no significant personal data. X is approved in principle for a mortgage of some unknown amount with a particular bank is not a serious amount of personal data particularly since it ought not be retained after the viewing.

    So other than the personal data, there's no significant personal data and it's not really serious personal data and it doesn't really count because they're not keeping it.

    Sounds legit.


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    #63
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Another thread destroyed by "I was asked for a document thus GDPR". :)

    As an aside, most EA now seem to have systems for handling documents securely and handling deletion requests etc.


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    #64
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    While I agree GDPR had become the new version of "It's against health & safety", there's no way of escaping the topic when discussing an organisation that is looking for inappropriate/excessive/unnecessary data.

    GDPR rights & obligations begin way before document security and deletion requests.


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    #65
    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!


    What's stopping me from being an absolute prick and putting in fake bids, thus forcing the other person to put their bid up.

    Proof of funds will only be usually sought when the bidding war is over.

    So the other party will be left with a high bid to pay after I pull out for the lulz and giggles.


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    #66
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    What's stopping me from being an absolute prick and putting in fake bids, thus forcing the other person to put their bid up.

    Proof of funds will only be usually sought when the bidding war is over.

    So the other party will be left with a high bid to pay after I pull out for the lulz and giggles.

    Yip, that’s the joys of EAs not looking for proof of funds from the outset. This has become a more pertinent issue today with AIBs decision to negate all mortgage offers to anyone on Covid payments or employed in at risk sectors. Now many of those who had approvals as of last Friday have lost them.

    Op, while Graham’s opinion is no doubt legally correct, I’m always of the view that you should help yourself get what you want. If confirming proof of funds is necessary for you to get the property you want, standing on principal and going by the letter of the law just means someone else gets the viewing and you are locked out of the process. You can complain to the DPC, but that has limited benefit in getting that property as the vendor doesn’t have to entertain you thereafter.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/aib-introduces-frightening-mortgage-rules-and-halts-lending-to-covid-payment-recipients-1.4290956


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    #67
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    What's stopping me from being an absolute prick and putting in fake bids, thus forcing the other person to put their bid up.

    I'd expect the EA to ask you for proof of funds before your offer is accepted/considered.

    Not when you ask to view.


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    #68
    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!


    Graham wrote: »
    I'd expect the EA to ask you for proof of funds before your offer is accepted/considered.

    Not when you ask to view.

    You might be missing my point Graham.

    I could bid €310,000 on a house that started at €300,000.

    The other person who's genuinely interested will increase to €320,000

    I increase to €330,000.

    The other person goes up to €340,000.

    They win the bidding war after I pull out for the craic and only then is proof of funds sought.

    Joe Bloggs has won the bidding war at €340,000 when he could've gotten it for €300,000.


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    #69
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Emphasis added
    Graham wrote: »
    I'd expect the EA to ask you for proof of funds before your offer is accepted/considered.

    Without proof of funds an EA is unlikely to consider/register your offer.

    :)


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    #70
    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!


    Graham wrote: »
    Emphasis added



    Without proof of funds an EA is unlikely to consider/register your offer.

    :)

    That's what you'd expect them to do ;)
    But they don't.

    Unfortunately they only ask for proof when the bidding bear is over.

    I'd say estate agents are not too pushed to change the system. It suits them.


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    #71
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    But they don't.

    Not my experience but YMMV.


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    #72
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »
    What's stopping me from being an absolute prick and putting in fake bids, thus forcing the other person to put their bid up.

    Proof of funds will only be usually sought when the bidding war is over.

    So the other party will be left with a high bid to pay after I pull out for the lulz and giggles.
    Whats stopping the EA or the vendors friends putting in fake bids


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    #73
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Graham wrote: »
    I'm not convinced to be honest:





    If the public interest argument were to be relevant, one could argue supermarkets should be able to check your bank balance prior to you entering the store.

    If people were going into supermarkets, walking around asking questions and then saying they couldn't actually buy any of the goods on display because they have no finance, and if this was happening to such an extent as to prejudice other customers, it may well be reasonable for supermarkets to ensure people are actually able to buy something before the coming in the door.


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    #74
    bigslick
    Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭bigslick


    Have viewed upwards of 60 houses over the past 12 months and in none of them have been asked letter showing AIP (even though I had), though I understand we now live in different circumstances.

    I don’t think its reasonable to ask individuals to provide an AIP letter just to arrange a viewing, with the pretext that they are just trying to ensure they remain compliant with Covid guidelines. Hundreds of other businesses have had to adapt their interactions with customers without asking individuals to take action outside of those guidelines themselves (social distancing, face masks where applicable etc.).

    Estate agents are paid by their vendors for a service and this service should include assessing individuals pre, during and post viewing on their interest and payment capability (if only cursory) via their experience. If an estate agent asked me for this, I would say can you provide me with the guidelines the agency follow for the receipt, usage, and retention for that data. I would never assume that any company that is in receipt of such data wouldn’t just leave it on a local drive, or print out and leave in office. And personally I do not want such information of mine potentially being available to individuals outside of those I had provided to for the purpose I have provided this. I understand many individuals may not care about this and each to their own, but don’t think these individuals should question why everyone doesn’t have their same opinion.

    Agents should allow viewings as they see fit, and then should they receive a bid they should then request a copy of their AIP letter before the bid is confirmed. That way they have maximum numbers of eyes viewing property and then have security for the vendor that each bid is backed by an approved mortgage. The idea that because many agents do not do this, that they should then ask during viewing makes no sense. Just put in a policy to ask for upon initial bid. Problem solved.


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    #75
    ebayissues
    Registered Users Posts: 446 ✭✭ebayissues


    If a party cant provide AIP - can other bidders requst the bids to be rescinded?


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    #76
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    ebayissues wrote: »
    If a party cant provide AIP - can other bidders requst the bids to be rescinded?

    It’s up to the vendor to consider any bids they want, if you rescind your bid, you are still the highest bid the vendor didn’t accept so the next bid may have to top it in order for the vendor to consider it.


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    #77
    Vikings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    Ran into this today with an EA while trying to arrange a viewing on a house, asked for AIP letter before even opening the door. I very much doubt it is anything Covid related, at least any more.

    It may have been implemented due to Covid but I would imagine some EA's have just found it easier to continue that way.


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    #78
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    Vikings wrote: »
    Ran into this today with an EA while trying to arrange a viewing on a house, asked for AIP letter before even opening the door. I very much doubt it is anything Covid related, at least any more.

    It may have been implemented due to Covid but I would imagine some EA's have just found it easier to continue that way.
    Interesting.

    On one hand, you'd think bustling viewings will help drive interest and sense of urgency on the part of bidders.

    On the other, they must be tempted to keep this going even apart from social distancing concerns as there must be a fair few people out there with the Covid subsidy who are still going to viewings to keep a nose in the market. Checking for AIP would filter these people out and remove the risks of accepting a bid from them.


  • Options
    #79
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Vikings wrote: »
    Ran into this today with an EA while trying to arrange a viewing on a house, asked for AIP letter before even opening the door. I very much doubt it is anything Covid related, at least any more.

    It may have been implemented due to Covid but I would imagine some EA's have just found it easier to continue that way.

    Well to be fair, they can't really do open viewings anymore. If you're taking the amount of time required to let people in one at a time, its probably sensible to try to weed out the looky-loos.

    A former neighbour of mine used to view every house that came up for sale. No intention of buying whatsoever, just pure noseyness.

    Also, Covid is still here you know, and risk of resurgence is real so I wouldn't want to see Covid practices consigned to history just yet.


  • Options
    #80
    Vikings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    There's obviously a balance.

    In my case just waiting for documents to come through for a bank that requires more up front documentation for AIP (which speeds up the following processes)

    In our case though we are trying to get ahead of things and move quickly - if we view the house and like it now we can bid as soon as AIP comes in.

    And on the flip side of that we are also looking to sell. And may look for the same EA to sell our property.

    By kicking us down the road on the AIP front they may lose the chance to be our EA for our sale.


  • Options
    #81
    SozBbz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,889 ✭✭✭SozBbz


    Vikings wrote: »
    There's obviously a balance.

    In my case just waiting for documents to come through for a bank that requires more up front documentation for AIP (which speeds up the following processes)

    In our case though we are trying to get ahead of things and move quickly - if we view the house and like it now we can bid as soon as AIP comes in.

    And on the flip side of that we are also looking to sell. And may look for the same EA to sell our property.

    By kicking us down the road on the AIP front they may lose the chance to be our EA for our sale.

    AIP aside, most EAs would want your own home sale agreed before taking an offer from you on the property they're selling.


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    #82
    Vikings
    Registered Users Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    SozBbz wrote: »
    AIP aside, most EAs would want your own home sale agreed before taking an offer from you on the property they're selling.

    Indeed & I am aware we'll need to get to that stage. I suppose I'm sufficiently happy we'll manage a quick sale based on recent history in our estate. (And some of the properties we've been looking at have been for sale for some time)

    In my case my request to view a property was met with a concrete send us your AIP letter and we'll arrange it. I would have thought a quick conversation would enlighten the EA to our current position better than a blanket "must have AIP."


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    #83
    guyfawkes5
    Registered Users Posts: 291 ✭✭guyfawkes5


    Vikings wrote: »
    There's obviously a balance.

    In my case just waiting for documents to come through for a bank that requires more up front documentation for AIP (which speeds up the following processes)

    In our case though we are trying to get ahead of things and move quickly - if we view the house and like it now we can bid as soon as AIP comes in.
    I guess it's like the 'substantial meal' thing with pubs opening up right now - you just need to pick an easy to understand criteria that will weed buyers down to the most serious for the time being. I don't know if forwarding on an email chain with a broker or bank representative or basically taking people at their word to allow those mid-application to go to viewings is something simple or realistic.


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    #84
    LeineGlas
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭LeineGlas


    SozBbz wrote: »
    Well to be fair, they can't really do open viewings anymore. If you're taking the amount of time required to let people in one at a time, its probably sensible to try to weed out the looky-loos.

    A former neighbour of mine used to view every house that came up for sale. No intention of buying whatsoever, just pure noseyness.

    Also, Covid is still here you know, and risk of resurgence is real so I wouldn't want to see Covid practices consigned to history just yet.

    EA's would know from experience who the curtain-twitchers in the locality are, so that's an easy way of filtering out those just looking for a nose.


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