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Housing Crisis and Immigration?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Daisy78


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So we give all these benefits to multinational tech companies such as grants and low corporation tax in order to employ Irish people only for them to go and employ forgein nationals. Israel has a booming tech sector with lots of start ups I doubt Israel would be happy if tech companies there went and employed large numbers of forgein nationals.

    Unskilled immigrant labour is a race to bottom to suit employers simple as. Irish people will not accept the abysmal pay and conditions on offer in the likes of the hospitality sector so they'll employ cheap forgein labour who are willing to work for the minimum wage and every hour god sends in order to sent money home and out of our economy.

    Presumably because they can’t get the skilled labour here in this country? In the case of the multinationals anyway?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Since my prevous thread was locked by a politically biased moderator,

    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...xford-housing/

    I was watching the News this evening and there is outcry over a Private Developer choosing not to to sell houses for to be used as Social Housing. The estate seems to be quiet a nice development, imagine you might buy a house there for €210k - €265k (as it mentions in the article). You bust your gut every day for the next 20 maybe 30 years trying to repay the mortgage or maybe it was your life savings already or money inherited etc.

    How disgusting would it be for you to see the house next door then let out to some socialised tenant for under €50 per week, or you might be renting privately there for €200 - €300 per week yourself.

    I am firmly in favour of cutting back heavily on the social housing spend and like Margaret Thatcher implementing a mass Privatisation of the current social housing stock. Allow people the chance to own their own homes for the first time in their lives or in multi-generation cases. Force these people to take responsibility in their lives and give them something to lose for change.

    I was in Dublin yesterday when a group of Housing protestors completely blocked the O'Connell Bridge, it severely disrupted my travel and I had to take a taxi instead. The taxpayer should not be responsible for housing people and there needs to be a thing called personal responsibility.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Daisy78 wrote: »
    Presumably because they can’t get the skilled labour here in this country? In the case of the multinationals anyway?

    So why are we bending over backward to them then if they can't employ Irish people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So why are we bending over backward to them then if they can't employ Irish people?

    The pay alot of money into the Irish exchequer as we are a Corporate Tax Haven, e.g. you are a German consumer who buys an iPhone in Germany, Apple routes the profits of this sale through their Irish subsidiary where they pay a few cents tax on the dollar.


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So we give all these benefits to multinational tech companies such as grants and low corporation tax in order to employ Irish people only for them to go and employ forgein nationals.

    What a load of bollocks.

    Tech companies are employing literally anyone who can pass their interview process. They're hiring non-Irish people because there aren't enough Irish people who meet their qualifications. And even with that, there's still a massive shortage of qualified engineers.

    If you think the tech sector is refusing to hire skilled Irish people in favor of "cheap" foreign labour, then you should really become a tech recruiter and make bank introducing these people to these tech companies.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Daisy78


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So why are we bending over backward to them then if they can't employ Irish people?

    What? So ask them to leave the country even though they may have already employed a substantial number of Irish people?!! How in gods name does that make sense. If there is a lack of suitably skilled individuals in the country what are they to do. If multinationals pulled out of Ireland in the morning we would be in dire straits, you might have cheaper housing alright but a whole new set of problems to go with that!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    theguzman wrote: »
    The pay alot of money into the Irish exchequer as we are a Corporate Tax Haven, e.g. you are a German consumer who buys an iPhone in Germany, Apple routes the profits of this sale through their Irish subsidiary where they pay a few cents tax on the dollar.

    So the Irish people dont see the benefit only the government


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So the Irish people dont see the benefit only the government

    So, if taxes + creating well-paying jobs - with the employees paying tax on their income of course - does not equal a benefit to the people, then what exactly does? If you wanna argue corporate taxes could be higher, cool, but claiming corporate taxes don't benefit the people seems like a weird statement to make.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So the Irish people dont see the benefit only the government

    In theory you would say they see the benefit of the taxes collected in reality thats debatable since there is effectively nothing back out of your taxes, and we won't even bother to suggest the HSE or Policing and Justice as everyone knows they don't exist in any meaningful way in Ireland. If you are on the dole for life and live in socialised housing then yes you are benefiting from the low corporate rate, but then you could argue they took your jobs, which those people never had any interest in to begin with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    theguzman wrote: »
    Since my prevous thread was locked by a politically biased moderator,

    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...xford-housing/

    I was watching the News this evening and there is outcry over a Private Developer choosing not to to sell houses for to be used as Social Housing. The estate seems to be quiet a nice development, imagine you might buy a house there for €210k - €265k (as it mentions in the article). You bust your gut every day for the next 20 maybe 30 years trying to repay the mortgage or maybe it was your life savings already or money inherited etc.

    How disgusting would it be for you to see the house next door then let out to some socialised tenant for under €50 per week, or you might be renting privately there for €200 - €300 per week yourself.

    I am firmly in favour of cutting back heavily on the social housing spend and like Margaret Thatcher implementing a mass Privatisation of the current social housing stock. Allow people the chance to own their own homes for the first time in their lives or in multi-generation cases. Force these people to take responsibility in their lives and give them something to lose for change.

    I was in Dublin yesterday when a group of Housing protestors completely blocked the O'Connell Bridge, it severely disrupted my travel and I had to take a taxi instead. The taxpayer should not be responsible for housing people and there needs to be a thing called personal responsibility.

    Wow !....I just saw the post you mention,noting your small concession to that peculiar criticism....well done you :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Shai wrote: »
    What a load of bollocks.

    Tech companies are employing literally anyone who can pass their interview process. They're hiring non-Irish people because there aren't enough Irish people who meet their qualifications. And even with that, there's still a massive shortage of qualified engineers.

    If you think the tech sector is refusing to hire skilled Irish people in favor of "cheap" foreign labour, then you should really become a tech recruiter and make bank introducing these people to these tech companies.

    Multinational corporations deserve every bit of criticism they receive, and that's not nearly enough.

    Analogy time:

    Your house is in so-so order, and you invite your excessively wealthy uncle to move in with you, the entire pretence being that he will improve your house. Fix that dodgy bathroom, say.

    But an invitation isn't enough. You need to pay huge amounts (infrastructure, lost tax, rebates, incentives) of money for him to bother his hole.

    So he moves into your house at last. He then starts inviting other people to live in your house so as they can do the work (you can't, that's the excuse).

    So for all the minor, superficial improvements your wealthy leech is supposedly offering for housing him, all the extra people he's invited over are taking a toll on your house. It's more cramped, things breaking down from overuse etc.

    But you must walk on eggshells and handle with kid gloves in case he goes over to another relatives house at the drop of a hat.

    At what point would you say, as you say, "this is a load of bullocks!"? :p

    But he does park his rolls Royce outside your house, and that certainly looks good. Might even attract a few other con men too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    theguzman wrote: »
    Since my prevous thread was locked by a politically biased moderator,

    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...xford-housing/

    I was watching the News this evening and there is outcry over a Private Developer choosing not to to sell houses for to be used as Social Housing. The estate seems to be quiet a nice development, imagine you might buy a house there for €210k - €265k (as it mentions in the article). You bust your gut every day for the next 20 maybe 30 years trying to repay the mortgage or maybe it was your life savings already or money inherited etc.

    How disgusting would it be for you to see the house next door then let out to some socialised tenant for under €50 per week, or you might be renting privately there for €200 - €300 per week yourself.

    I am firmly in favour of cutting back heavily on the social housing spend and like Margaret Thatcher implementing a mass Privatisation of the current social housing stock. Allow people the chance to own their own homes for the first time in their lives or in multi-generation cases. Force these people to take responsibility in their lives and give them something to lose for change.

    I was in Dublin yesterday when a group of Housing protestors completely blocked the O'Connell Bridge, it severely disrupted my travel and I had to take a taxi instead. The taxpayer should not be responsible for housing people and there needs to be a thing called personal responsibility.

    I am 100% behind you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    beejee wrote: »
    Multinational corporations deserve every bit of criticism they receive, and that's not nearly enough.

    Analogy time:

    Your house is in so-so order, and you invite your excessively wealthy uncle to move in with you, the entire pretence being that he will improve your house. Fix that dodgy bathroom, say.

    But an invitation isn't enough. You need to pay huge amounts (infrastructure, lost tax, rebates, incentives) of money for him to bother his hole.

    So he moves into your house at last. He then starts inviting other people to live in your house so as they can do the work (you can't, that's the excuse).

    So for all the minor, superficial improvements your wealthy leech is supposedly offering for housing him, all the extra people he's invited over are taking a toll on your house. It's more cramped, things breaking down from overuse etc.

    But you must walk on eggshells and handle with kid gloves in case he goes over to another relatives house at the drop of a hat.

    At what point would you say, as you say, "this is a load of bullocks!"? :p

    But he does park his rolls Royce outside your house, and that certainly looks good. Might even attract a few other con men too.

    Have you another solution to how we would bridge the 10 BILLION the big corporations pay in tax each year if they leave?


    Go on Einstein, stick it to the man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So the Irish people dont see the benefit only the government

    My god.

    I worry for the future.


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    beejee wrote: »
    <snip for brevity>
    to be clear, your main argument against the tech sector is that they're creating so many well-paying jobs that there's a need to hire non-Irish people? Am I reading this right?
    beejee wrote: »
    He then starts inviting other people to live in your house so as they can do the work (you can't, that's the excuse)
    I'm not sure why think that's an excuse? That's very much reality. Of course there's some Irish people who can do the work. Those all get hired. But it's not nearly enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Shai wrote: »
    So, if taxes + creating well-paying jobs - with the employees paying tax on their income of course - does not equal a benefit to the people, then what exactly does? If you wanna argue corporate taxes could be higher, cool, but claiming corporate taxes don't benefit the people seems like a weird statement to make.

    Our current government has no interest in reinvesting the revenue it receives in tax back into improving our society.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Our current government has no interest in reinvesting the revenue it receives in tax back into improving our society.

    What does it does it do with the 70-something billion it collects every year?

    The schools, hospitals and roads must have built themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Our current government has no interest in reinvesting the revenue it receives in tax back into improving our society.

    It spends twenty billion on welfare and much the same on health :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    What does it does it do with the 70-something billion it collects every year?

    The schools, hospitals and roads must have built themselves.

    Tell that to the thousands of Irish people on trollies in hospitals, on the housing list, on school waiting lists and living hand to mouth they see great benefit from the governments tax revenue it receives from multinational corporations. We need less talk and more action with how our taxes are spent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Have you another solution to how we would bridge the 10 BILLION the big corporations pay in tax each year if they leave?


    Go on Einstein, stick it to the man.

    I'm identifying the problem. That you are a hound dog for privatisation and such pure capitalism is your issue, and doesn't automatically make me a communist/socialist/whatever narrative you've dreamed up for yourself.

    Sustainability, independence and balance is a foundation of healthy society and country. Mocking someone for identifying a key economic problem marks you out as benefactor of said imbalance. Or a fool.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    beejee wrote: »
    I'm identifying the problem. That you are a hound dog for privatisation and such pure capitalism is your issue, and doesn't automatically make me a communist/socialist/whatever narrative you've dreamed up for yourself.

    Sustainability, independence and balance is a foundation of healthy society and country. Mocking someone for identifying a key economic problem marks you out as benefactor of said imbalance. Or a fool.

    Yeah anyway.

    Did you find that 10 billion you want taken out of the exchequer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Shai wrote: »
    to be clear, your main argument against the tech sector is that they're creating so many well-paying jobs that there's a need to hire non-Irish people? Am I reading this right?


    I'm not sure why think that's an excuse? That's very much reality. Of course there's some Irish people who can do the work. Those all get hired. But it's not nearly enough.

    If a multinational crosses the line from beneficial to detrimental it's a problem. Obviously :p

    If they have to hire add so many people from abroad, then they are surplus to requirement. They don't belong here on our tab.

    Would love to see the employment breakdown of these subsidised, filthy rich corporations here. We'd have a better idea of their impact then as opposed to some blind tax number that's meaningless on its own.

    But that's for another thread anyway, this is purely numbers of people and housing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    beejee wrote: »
    If a multinational crosses the line from beneficial to detrimental it's a problem. Obviously :p

    If they have to hire add so many people from abroad, then they are surplus to requirement. They don't belong here on our tab.

    Would love to see the employment breakdown of these subsidised, filthy rich corporations here. We'd have a better idea of their impact then as opposed to some blind tax number that's meaningless on its own.

    But that's for another thread anyway, this is purely numbers of people and housing.

    Jesus wept.

    Do you know there is 600,000 foreign people working in the service industry in Ireland

    What about foreign doctors nurses etc?

    Are you saying we don’t need the 600,000 people to help keep the country ticking?

    And what about the Irish people working in these corporations?

    Do their jobs matter to you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Yeah anyway.

    Did you find that 10 billion you want taken out of the exchequer?

    Are you talking about the question you asked yourself, forgot to ask me, then called me Einstein, sarcastically, for not answering?

    All you're trying to do is deflect attention from a serious problem by way of simultaneously jeering and stating in a roundabout way that we must accept the problem, that "of course it can't be solved!"

    You don't believe for a second that I'm going to post some gigantic economic policy to restructure our dependence. Of course not.

    That's because you aren't looking for an answer in the least. You're simply another one of those people in the way.

    Go fish :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 226 ✭✭Shai


    Can I just say that you seem to be awfully quick to take people's jobs away. Can I ask, beejee, what you do for a living?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    beejee wrote: »
    Are you talking about the question you asked yourself, forgot to ask me, then called me Einstein, sarcastically, for not answering?

    All you're trying to do is deflect attention from a serious problem by way of simultaneously jeering and stating in a roundabout way that we must accept the problem, that "of course it can't be solved!"

    You don't believe for a second that I'm going to post some gigantic economic policy to restructure our dependence. Of course not.

    That's because you aren't looking for an answer in the least. You're simply another one of those people in the way.

    Go fish :)

    So that’s a no then.

    There is no problem like you think there is.

    You’re listening and reading too much nonsense on Facebook pages.

    In the real world we need foreign investment to help the country tick over.

    Like it or not that’s fact.

    That’s why I keep asking about the 10 billion which you have no answer for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Jesus wept.

    Do you know there is 600,000 foreign people working in the service industry in Ireland

    What about foreign doctors nurses etc?

    Are you saying we don’t need the 600,000 people to help keep the country ticking?

    And what about the Irish people working in these corporations?

    Do their jobs matter to you?

    Do you know that if YOU can sign up two people to "the plan" you can make money out of them?

    And if those two people can sign up 4 more, they can live of their backs?

    "do the people at the bottom of the pyramid scheme not matter to you?" :)

    We need more people because we have more people so we need more people because we have more people so we need more people because we have more people so we need more people.

    It's going to collapse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭Cordell


    beejee wrote: »
    If a multinational crosses the line from beneficial to detrimental it's a problem. Obviously :p
    That line have not been crossed.
    beejee wrote: »
    If they have to hire add so many people from abroad, then they are surplus to requirement. They don't belong here on our tab.
    They are not here on our tab. They pay their corporate taxes, and most important they employ highly skilled highly payed people that pay their taxes and spend their money in the Irish economy.
    beejee wrote: »
    Would love to see the employment breakdown of these subsidised, filthy rich corporations here. We'd have a better idea of their impact then as opposed to some blind tax number that's meaningless on its own.
    They are not subsidized. They may get tax breaks, but those are not subsidies.
    Privately operated public transport and VHI type of health insurance are subsidized (with the above mentioned tax moneys).
    beejee wrote: »
    But that's for another thread anyway, this is purely numbers of people and housing.
    Exactly. People employed by the multinationals drive the housing prices up, there is no way around it. But that does not mean that we have a problem with corporations paying too many people to much money, or does it? Should Ireland go back to being a poor country, will that make you happy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    theguzman wrote: »
    Since my prevous thread was locked by a politically biased moderator,

    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/201...xford-housing/

    I was watching the News this evening and there is outcry over a Private Developer choosing not to to sell houses for to be used as Social Housing. The estate seems to be quiet a nice development, imagine you might buy a house there for €210k - €265k (as it mentions in the article). You bust your gut every day for the next 20 maybe 30 years trying to repay the mortgage or maybe it was your life savings already or money inherited etc.

    How disgusting would it be for you to see the house next door then let out to some socialised tenant for under €50 per week, or you might be renting privately there for €200 - €300 per week yourself.

    I am firmly in favour of cutting back heavily on the social housing spend and like Margaret Thatcher implementing a mass Privatisation of the current social housing stock. Allow people the chance to own their own homes for the first time in their lives or in multi-generation cases. Force these people to take responsibility in their lives and give them something to lose for change.

    I was in Dublin yesterday when a group of Housing protestors completely blocked the O'Connell Bridge, it severely disrupted my travel and I had to take a taxi instead. The taxpayer should not be responsible for housing people and there needs to be a thing called personal responsibility.

    Saw that myself last night. There was a lady on it saying she was in line for one of those houses via Social Housing but obviusly not now. Maybe if she decided to do something about her predicament she could afford one same as most peiople who work. Seems like she wanted a freebie from the government. As you say it would stick in the throat if you spent your hard earned cash on one of those houses and the person next door gets one for almost nowt...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Cordell wrote: »
    They are not subsidized. They may get tax breaks, but those are not subsidies.


    As we have seen from Luxembourg, Italy, Holland, and Ireland, preferential tax arrangements can be and are often defined by the Competition Commissioner as illegal-state-aid. Subsidies by another name.


This discussion has been closed.
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