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HSE - :( fukkk

  • 09-09-2020 4:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭


    Can anybody shed any light, as to how there are so many inefficient incompetent individuals working in the HSE ? Like proper uncaring lazy...., earning in this case about 55 grand ? Of public money !

    I was availing of a certain physical rehabilitative treatment that needed to end at the onset of covid, I spoke at the time to the therapist that I was due to have a minor procedure that would prevent me from attending further appointments for a time, they said theyd be in touch anyway once covid was looking better for them to check, see how things were going and reschedule etc.

    Back from the gym now, letter on my doorstep saying I’ve been discharged from their services (“because ‘I’ hadn’t been in contact”).... no call, no anything to check... I’m in need of this assistance to nail the final leg of my recovery.... but this fûcking... My other half was at this appointment and confirmed what was said during the consultation... so not my imagination...

    It’s just one speed bump after another with HSE people and their contractors.... been a taxpayer for 25 years yet up against an individual who can’t take a proper notation of an agreed pathway forward from a consultation... if there had been doubt, or question of why I hadn’t been in touch, maybe errr... lift the phone ? It took several minutes to type, print , process the letter, spending 45 seconds, lifting a phone, seeing what the issue was (ok, it’s them) “ hey Strumms, your next consultation, did we get wires crossed, we haven’t heard... ohhh ok, sorry wires crossed let’s schedule.... “ no drama...

    Have I just been unlucky ? Genuine question, but through this treatment / recovery it’s a constant battle to obtain consistent degrees of competency, efficiency and fairness as well as just what you ‘need’ to get better....

    Anybody’s thoughts, opinions, similar experiences welcome, am I just unlucky ? Thanks !


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    Strumms wrote: »
    Can anybody shed any light, as to how there are so many inefficient incompetent individuals working in the HSE ? Like proper uncaring lazy...., earning in this case about 55 grand ? Of public money !

    I was availing of a certain physical rehabilitative treatment that needed to end at the onset of covid, I spoke at the time to the therapist that I was due to have a minor procedure that would prevent me from attending further appointments for a time, they said theyd be in touch anyway once covid was looking better for them to check, see how things were going and reschedule etc.

    Back from the gym now, letter on my doorstep saying I’ve been discharged from their services (“because ‘I’ hadn’t been in contact”).... no call, no anything to check... I’m in need of this assistance to nail the final leg of my recovery.... but this fûcking... My other half was at this appointment and confirmed what was said during the consultation... so not my imagination...

    It’s just one speed bump after another with HSE people and their contractors.... been a taxpayer for 25 years yet up against an individual who can’t take a proper notation of an agreed pathway forward from a consultation... if there had been doubt, or question of why I hadn’t been in touch, maybe errr... lift the phone ? It took several minutes to type, print , process the letter, spending 45 seconds, lifting a phone, seeing what the issue was (ok, it’s them) “ hey Strumms, your next consultation, did we get wires crossed, we haven’t heard... ohhh ok, sorry wires crossed let’s schedule.... “ no drama...

    Have I just been unlucky ? Genuine question, but through this treatment / recovery it’s a constant battle to obtain consistent degrees of competency, efficiency and fairness as well as just what you ‘need’ to get better....

    Anybody’s thoughts, opinions, similar experiences welcome, am I just unlucky ? Thanks !

    This is probably just a clerical error, there isn't someone overseeing every letter that goes out and at times, communication can break down between medical professionals and Admin staff. There isn't capacity to phone every patient that doesn't make contact either.

    Have you tried contacting them and explaining the situation?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    This is probably just a clerical error, there isn't someone overseeing every letter that goes out and at times, communication can break down between medical professionals and Admin staff. There isn't capacity to phone every patient that doesn't make contact either.

    Have you tried contacting them and explaining the situation?

    Thanks,

    No I literally just checked the post about 30 minutes ago when I got back, so I’ll try ring tomorrow and negotiate another appointment if I can. I was on a waiting list for over six months and if I’ve been fûcked to the back of a Q... I’ll end up having to go private and saying goodbye to the best part of a grand or more...

    Hopefully it is clerical, I guess tomorrow will tell... :) thanks.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    Yes honestly Strumms do you expect every single patient to be rung, it's just an impossibility and those letters are usually standard bar changing the name.
    If there was a breakdown from the side of the hse, on the letter you received will be contact details.
    Ring and ask to speak to the manager and get their email address and follow up the phone call with an email outlining the same,
    that you wish to appeal for whatever reason.
    This will get it resolved for you if you have grounds but tarring everyone in the hse as incompetent or uncaring is totally untrue and unfair.
    I work for the HSE and have worked in the office all through covid like many others to get the hospital bills paid ect,
    that's before you even talk about the nurses and doctors and cleaners ect in a hospital covid ward,
    is there bad apples, of course there is like everywhere else in life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Yes honestly Strumms do you expect every single patient to be rung, it's just an impossibility and those letters are usually standard bar changing the name.
    If there was a breakdown from the side of the hse, on the letter you received will be contact details.
    Ring and ask to speak to the manager and get their email address and follow up the phone call with an email outlining the same,
    that you wish to appeal for whatever reason.
    This will get it resolved for you if you have grounds but tarring everyone in the hse as incompetent or uncaring is totally untrue and unfair.
    I work for the HSE and have worked in the office all through covid like many others to get the hospital bills paid ect,
    that's before you even talk about the nurses and doctors and cleaners ect in a hospital covid ward,
    is there bad apples, of course there is like everywhere else in life.

    I expect efficiency. I expect efficient communications, i expert promises to be followed up on, she promised a phone call...I didn’t mind if it’s email or letter as long as I receive the info and help I need I’m not too fussy.

    I was promised though a call. Instead I got a letter informing me because ‘I’ wasn’t chasing them to help me, I was being discharged. I was promised a call to arrange further treatment, which is NEEDED I didn’t get one, instead I got discharged. Unsatisfactory, incompetent, unbelievable.

    Bad apples everywhere but if they are allowed to sow seeds unchecked the whole system is fûcked.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,714 ✭✭✭ThewhiteJesus


    Strumms wrote: »
    I expect efficiency. I expect efficient communications, i expert promises to be followed up on, she promised a phone call...I didn’t mind if it’s email or letter as long as I receive the info and help I need I’m not too fussy.

    I was promised though a call. Instead I got a letter informing me because ‘I’ wasn’t chasing them to help me, I was being discharged. I was promised a call to arrange further treatment, which is NEEDED I didn’t get one, instead I got discharged. Unsatisfactory, incompetent, unbelievable.

    Bad apples everywhere but if they are allowed to sow seeds unchecked the whole system is fûcked.

    The problem about getting a promise on a call is how do you prove it, hence my advice to follow up by email, this go’s for any professional body, anyway I hope you get sorted


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The problem about getting a promise on a call is how do you prove it, hence my advice to follow up by email, this go’s for any professional body, anyway I hope you get sorted

    I actually prefer email but any and all correspondences with HSE departments with me are via letter... presumably this is because a lot of HSE clients are older people who might not be doing email....

    Still it’s grossly inefficient as regards my situation.... patients shouldn’t really have to chase up appointments ... appointments should be assigned as and when needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Actually it's a pretty common occurrence unfortunately ,I've had a similar case recently referred by Gp to see consultant due to having symptoms of a degenerative disease ,got the initial letter Saying I'm on the waiting list to be seen ,no worries there , during lock down had an phone consultation with my gp who asked why I didn't follow up about my appointment that I missed and was now removed from the waiting list to see a consultant ,no appointment was ever issued but the secretary's are able to cancel appointments / put down someone missed and remove them from a waiting list and put the blame on the patient


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Executive my where the sun don't shine, think about it...

    Health service executive... sounds like you're going to be well looked after like an executive...

    Same aul sht banded about in Ireland, service of excellence.

    The Mid western health board was way better, same old goons sitting around table's in suits trying to make a fck up sound like you're buying gold but it's only Chinese imported copper...


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Gatling wrote: »
    Actually it's a pretty common occurrence unfortunately ,I've had a similar case recently referred by Gp to see consultant due to having symptoms of a degenerative disease ,got the initial letter Saying I'm on the waiting list to be seen ,no worries there , during lock down had an phone consultation with my gp who asked why I didn't follow up about my appointment that I missed and was now removed from the waiting list to see a consultant ,no appointment was ever issued but the secretary's are able to cancel appointments / put down someone missed and remove them from a waiting list and put the blame on the patient

    Ok, so YOU KNOW exactly what I’m talking about... when my health was A1 I just remember those “best health service in the world” lines you’d hear... in fairness the best of the HSE is rather excellent but there are just so many speed bumps with them, far too many and too often.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Strumms wrote: »
    Ok, so YOU KNOW exactly what I’m talking about... when my health was A1 I just remember those “best health service in the world” lines you’d hear... in fairness the best of the HSE is rather excellent but there are just so many speed bumps with them, far too many and too often.

    Yes I do ,and I've heard it happening with others too ,
    But from what I can gather it's not decisions made by a doctor or consultant it a secretary who actually cancels the appointments under the failed to respond to letters that were not sent to you or others to clear space on the waiting lists ,

    It shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances especially when your waiting to be seen by a specialist or consultant while having genuine medical conditions


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Obviously this is very frustrating, but look at it this way dude, the HSE is the largest employer in the state, they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland.

    There are bound to be errors. It's not exactly the most well funded (or admittedly run) place. You have just been unlucky. The anger is understandable, but the situation itself is rectifiable once you make contact with them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    jim o doom wrote: »
    Obviously this is very frustrating, but look at it this way dude, the HSE is the largest employer in the state, they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland.

    There are bound to be errors. It's not exactly the most well funded (or admittedly run) place. You have just been unlucky. The anger is understandable, but the situation itself is rectifiable once you make contact with them.

    This is someone's health care at risk. Not to be dismissed casually as " just one of those things."

    OP if you need to, take it higher. There is a complaints procedure for that reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Graces7 wrote: »
    This is someone's health care at risk. Not to be dismissed casually as " just one of those things."

    OP if you need to, take it higher. There is a complaints procedure for that reason.

    You are overstating the issue. The op said "Anybody’s thoughts, opinions, similar experiences welcome, am I just unlucky ? Thanks !" The op also mentioned that they are near the end of their treatment.

    I was merely sharing my thoughts and opinions, that the health service is over burdened and that errors do happen (ie yes the OP was unlucky), and that the best course of action is to obviously contact the unit they were dealing with.

    My dad had great experiences with the health service when he had cancer, I've had mixed experiences (broken shin, got something like an MRSA infection in the surgical wound and a host of other experiences), my wife has had mixed experiences. You can get lucky, you can get unlucky.

    First sensible step is to contact the unit, not engage in a complaint procedure that will have an unknown outcome and that probably won't help the recovery situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    jim o doom wrote: »
    You are overstating the issue.

    Not at all. Long experience.

    . You can get lucky, you can get unlucky.

    What an attitude! :eek: About health care? Unbelievable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Strumms wrote: »
    I expect efficiency. I expect efficient communications, i expert promises to be followed up on, she promised a phone call...I didn’t mind if it’s email or letter as long as I receive the info and help I need I’m not too fussy.
    Bad apples everywhere but if they are allowed to sow seeds unchecked the whole system is fûcked.

    And in a very real sense we get the standard of " care" we allow to happen.
    If we accept it as acceptable when it isn't we perpetuate it.

    Taking it higher is often the only way. And it works. and works well and swiftly


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,441 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    There exists a mid level of management who’s job is to minimise spend. They act callously and ruthlessly to attain this.

    My oh has to interact with these people and they are shameless and driven in their efforts to manage budgets rather than manage care. Best example was when at a meeting she was asked to stop using the term “patients” and refer to them as “service users” as it was less emotive for decision making. These were critically and terminally ill cancer patients they were discussing.

    She’s currently working on her exit strategy as she can’t be dealing with this stuff any more.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Graces7 wrote: »
    And in a very real sense we get the standard of " care" we allow to happen.
    If we accept it as acceptable when it isn't we perpetuate it.

    Taking it higher is often the only way. And it works. and works well and swiftly

    works well and swiftly - have you any examples of this to prove your point?

    My wife had a hip operation that drastically reduced her mobility and caused her constant and significant pain, and despite me angrily complaining, the consultant refused to do anything, she had to in fact go to a totally different surgeon who worked out of Cappagh orthopedic and the issue took a couple of years to fix through a more invasive surgery than the initial keyhole one.

    Complaining did NOTHING for us. My view of the health service is based on me, my wife's and my families experiences with the health service. It is a realistic view.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    jim o doom wrote: »
    works well and swiftly - have you any examples of this to prove your point?

    My wife had a hip operation that drastically reduced her mobility and caused her constant and significant pain, and despite me angrily complaining, the consultant refused to do anything, she had to in fact go to a totally different surgeon who worked out of Cappagh orthopedic and the issue took a couple of years to fix through a more invasive surgery than the initial keyhole one.

    Complaining did NOTHING for us. My view of the health service is based on me, my wife's and my families experiences with the health service. It is a realistic view.

    There is a set " complaints procedure" in existence. It was using that that I referred to, not complaining to the person you were dissatisfied with. Which as you learned. does not work as it is too personal and confrontational. Ie complaint to a third party who specialise in these matters. And who has a time limit to act within. With good reason.

    Realistic is an interesting word. You see them as fallible and that you must accept errors that cause suffering? That encourages errors. That may affect others who are the victims of errors by HSE. The way I view HSE is also realistic but does not mean accepting errors where health care is concerned as you do. So you made it personal rather then clinical and objective.

    No examples, as they are too personal. Just that serious and dangerous errors have been swiftly corrected by using the complaints procedure that is provided for patients, after a direct approach was ignored. Setting anger and emotion aside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    jim o doom wrote: »
    Obviously this is very frustrating, but look at it this way dude, the HSE is the largest employer in the state, they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland.

    There are bound to be errors. It's not exactly the most well funded (or admittedly run) place. You have just been unlucky. The anger is understandable, but the situation itself is rectifiable once you make contact with them.

    Bound to be errors ? sorry not good enough. If we lower standards of what is to be expected we are creating a new expectation of inefficiency and happy to excuse it like you are doing.

    A child awaits chemotherapy but gets overlooked... you answer... “they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland. There are bound to be errors”

    A woman needing a heart operation....get overlooked?..... “they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland. There are bound to be errors”

    An error in the HSE, is catering messing up an order, not enough surgical gloves ordered from the supplier , whatever, but we aren’t going to accept errors from whomever it may be, that negatively impacts the care and the health and the recovery and wellbeing of people, of patients... time we started calling out these endemic failures, inefficiencies, and shining a big fuûcking spotlight on them at EVERY level... and shining a big fûcking light onto WHO is responsible, directly.

    Last year when I enquired about hydrotherapy, the consultant was unsure where it was available, the consultant said he’d check it out and be in contact, he never did and never was. Turns out it was available in his own hospital. That’s the sort of carry on, the sort of ineffective, inefficient, careless and uncaring crapology that is absolutely rife though the HSE... front line staff... superheroes... consultants, managers, decision makers and the political wasters... super zeros


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,268 Mod ✭✭✭✭TherapyBoy


    Have you contacted them & informed them that the appointment was cancelled in error?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,993 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    Theres over 2.3m people with a Medical card, GP card or on LTI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Strumms wrote: »
    Bound to be errors ? sorry not good enough. If we lower standards of what is to be expected we are creating a new expectation of inefficiency and happy to excuse it like you are doing.

    Yeah that completely misses the point. The OP asked our opinion if he had just been unlucky. I believe that is the case, I said so, and I suggested he contact the unit.

    Making a complaint before contacting the unit is putting the horse before the cart.

    I said in more than one post to contact the unit and that errors happen. I never suggested we just ignore errors or lower standards, I gave my opinion on what likely occurred and what the OP should then do.

    But feel free to make up an imaginary argument that I never made and defeat it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Strumms wrote: »
    Bound to be errors ? sorry not good enough. If we lower standards of what is to be expected we are creating a new expectation of inefficiency and happy to excuse it like you are doing.

    A child awaits chemotherapy but gets overlooked... you answer... “they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland. There are bound to be errors”

    A woman needing a heart operation....get overlooked?..... “they employ 67,000 people directly and 30k+ indirectly. They are responsible for the health of the entire country. 4.9 million people in Ireland. There are bound to be errors”

    An error in the HSE, is catering messing up an order, not enough surgical gloves ordered from the supplier , whatever, but we aren’t going to accept errors from whomever it may be, that negatively impacts the care and the health and the recovery and wellbeing of people, of patients... time we started calling out these endemic failures, inefficiencies, and shining a big fuûcking spotlight on them at EVERY level... and shining a big fûcking light onto WHO is responsible, directly.

    Last year when I enquired about hydrotherapy, the consultant was unsure where it was available, the consultant said he’d check it out and be in contact, he never did and never was. Turns out it was available in his own hospital. That’s the sort of carry on, the sort of ineffective, inefficient, careless and uncaring crapology that is absolutely rife though the HSE... front line staff... superheroes... consultants, managers, decision makers and the political wasters... super zeros

    Sadly this is a totally accurate appraisal. And as you rightly say is we accept this kind of behaviour we deserve what follows.

    HSE needs to act like a responsible, mature 21st century business dealing with complaints fairly and promptly . rather than the head-in-the-sand vague whataboutery we get now.

    But as long as we treat doctors like gods?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,696 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Sadly this is a totally accurate appraisal. And as you rightly say is we accept this kind of behaviour we deserve what follows.

    HSE needs to act like a responsible, mature 21st century business dealing with complaints fairly and promptly . rather than the head-in-the-sand vague whataboutery we get now.

    But as long as we treat doctors like gods?

    Yup..They should be treated like any and every employee, in any and every industry...they fûck up they are open to criticism and get held to account.

    When they commit to providing you with an avenue of and level of care and help and indeed communication only for zero of that to come good, it’s unsatisfactory.

    If you paid a travel agent a grand for a holiday only for them not to send you tickets you’d be kicking up a shîtstorm.

    If a doctor as part of a health system you’ve been contributing to isn’t providing you with ANY of the help they committed to and which you are entitled to and need... there are Q’s of people ready to defend them.

    I’ve made enquiries but I’m yet to receive a reply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Strumms;lost a reply to the boards gremlin.

    Google Irish Patients Association. There is a time limit re all these things and it ha sbeen exceeded

    also go to the HSE site and read re making a complaint?

    The system DOES work .. pm me if you need,


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Here is a good one!

    I rang the GP yesterday about my prescription that was due. Was told that all patients on my GPs list had been transferred en masse to a different GP!

    Had this happen once before when I had moved up here but the paperwork was not done. A pharmacist told me that they do this when a new dr takes over a practice so he has a patient list,.

    Clearly without asking us. Or giving us the choice to find a GP ourselves.

    AFAIK I am still registered with my old doctor. As on my medical card..As soon as I have my pain meds meds I will ….


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Here is a good one!

    I rang the GP yesterday about my prescription that was due. Was told that all patients on my GPs list had been transferred en masse to a different GP!

    Had this happen once before when I had moved up here but the paperwork was not done. A pharmacist told me that they do this when a new dr takes over a practice so he has a patient list,.

    Clearly without asking us. Or giving us the choice to find a GP ourselves.

    AFAIK I am still registered with my old doctor. As on my medical card..As soon as I have my pain meds meds I will ….

    Another common occurrence unfortunately ,seen it here in Dublin where one gp retired and another gp 25mins away got 3000 new medical card patients dumped on them and pretty much crippled a service the regular patients were left waiting weeks for appointments while medical card patients were able to get appointments ,
    Then a brand new primary care center opened in the area that wouldn't take medical card patients due to being over subscribed.

    There under no obligation to inform you that they have moved you to another service


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Gatling wrote: »
    Another common occurrence unfortunately ,seen it here in Dublin where one gp retired and another gp 25mins away got 3000 new medical card patients dumped on them and pretty much crippled a service the regular patients were left waiting weeks for appointments while medical card patients were able to get appointments ,
    Then a brand new primary care center opened in the area that wouldn't take medical card patients due to being over subscribed.

    There under no obligation to inform you that they have moved you to another service

    Can you show me the legislation that proves this please? Thank you

    Then there d+++++ well should be! I am still legally registered with my GP! My medical card is in HIS name!
    Had they informed us we could have registered elsewhere.

    Trying now to safeguard my medication supplies. Too unwell for all this. Also old and in seclusion. I only found out when I called the surgery to get a prescription.

    When it happened before I had left that area just as my excellent GP was retiring and on that occasion the new GP was a Spaniard with poor English. He kept writing to me over 200 miles away.. I finally asked him for a house visit, saying it would take 6 hours by road and if he let me know when I would advise the ferry... Oh and then got a Medical Council ruling that he was too far away to be my GP.....lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    There have been some interesting developments about this. That is all I can say. But it pays dividends to ask questions in the right official places


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Can you show me the legislation that proves this please? Thank you

    Then there d+++++ well should be! I am still legally registered with my GP! My medical card is in HIS name!
    /QUOTE]

    My registration is valid, with my chosen GP.


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