Which conspiracy theories are real and which are not?

The Late Late Show · 23-07-2019 5:04pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

In fact UFOs are widely reported since 1945, it not a new phenomenon that just appeared recently. Sightings have occurred across the world, so its obvious there something there. I just note there secret documentation online and you will see high level generals discussing the topic frankly and openly. They did not think it was imaginary or fantasy. There plenty of good cases where dozens and hundreds of people saw hard solid objects in the sky flying around near nuclear sites, nato bases, cities and town and villages during the 60s and 80s.

Most UFO sightings are identifiable. Project blue book was a major US airforce investigation to debunk UFO sightings and after 12,000 cases were looked at, there, they were left with 700 individual sightings they could not explain .

You personally want to see alien spacecrat and its pilots, correct?

Claiming there no evidence in my view is wrong. Just an example Col Halt, was a deputy commander of a Nato base in the UK during the early 80s) and he recorded their sighting on tape in the 80s (real time) and just listening to the tape you will experience their reaction, mood and the drama unfolding in front of them and you can hear what they saw on tape. I posted this real tape recording on this site somewhere take a listen to it, you find it on youtube also. There many events like this to be just imaginary.

Regards to why would aliens speak English. UFO phenomenon origins are speculated about for years. There many theories the pilots are us from the future, they live in parallel world just like our own and visit us. They are interdimensional beings who have been here longer then we have. There also speculation they are species of human who split off to form their own small colony on earth and are hiding out amongst us ( this is division based on flood bible lore) Keep in mind this just speculation and nobody knows.

There also a theory some of the pilots are human biological hybrids. Today science shows it not impractical or nonsense. Long list of UFO stories of beings taking DNA samples from people and not saying this is true and actually happening, just outlining the claims made by alleged UFO abductees.

Now the worldest best fighter pilots are seeing advanced ships in the sky and reporting back, so there no denying there craft there of an unknown origin.

Anything is possible and have read books, newspaper articles and TV documentaries about UFOs and the related Area 51. Now of course there could well be top secret flying machines developed by superpowers and not officially acknowledged, If man could go to the moon, surely they can create other advanced technologies?

The flood is a major issue too. Made famous by the bible, it actually did happen and is usually attributed to the ice age ending. Another issue was about how primitive North America was compared to Central and South America when these places were discovered. Some say a major flood or similar event destroyed a civilisation there causing the likes of the Aztecs and Mayans to move further south. Aztecs call this story Aztlan and Europeans called it Atlantis. Needless to say, a lot got embellished and things were added as they went along. Space and world origin fiction continues with films like Star Wars, Justice League and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But there is some truth in all these too.

The Nal wrote: »

There have been UFO sightings for thousands of years.

Some claim 'aliens' built the likes of the pyramids and that a world religion linked Egyptian pyramids to Irish burial mounds to Central American pyramids. Stories of continents across the sea from Europe such as the Atlantis legend and then discovering this continent actually was there all along with a population with similar flood stories. Some articles like this have interesting claims:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/

Many claim that the ancient world was a massive advanced empire comprising of a set of related states ranging from Iran in the east to the Americas in the west with Europe in the middle. The Mayans, Egyptians, Greeks, Persians and Romans were then the remnants of this.

Whether one believes in UFOs, Atlantis, advanced as today earlier civilisations and so on, the fact remains that despite the history of Native Americans as supposedly coming across from what are now China, Korea, Japan and Russia to what is now Alaska and then working their way south, the North American continent was very primitive when first discovered by Europeans when compared to the South American and Mexican areas as well as Southern parts of the USA. Is the theory of starting from Alaska and moving south false? And if native Americans have European and Persian ancestry, does this imply that perhaps they may have crossed from Europe or Africa and started off much further south.

Cheerful Spring2 · 25-07-2019 4:19pm

The Late Late Show wrote: »

Anything is possible and have read books, newspaper articles and TV documentaries about UFOs and the related Area 51. Now of course there could well be top secret flying machines developed by superpowers and not officially acknowledged, If man could go to the moon, surely they can create other advanced technologies?

The flood is a major issue too. Made famous by the bible, it actually did happen and is usually attributed to the ice age ending. Another issue was about how primitive North America was compared to Central and South America when these places were discovered. Some say a major flood or similar event destroyed a civilisation there causing the likes of the Aztecs and Mayans to move further south. Aztecs call this story Aztlan and Europeans called it Atlantis. Needless to say, a lot got embellished and things were added as they went along. Space and world origin fiction continues with films like Star Wars, Justice League and Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. But there is some truth in all these too.

Some claim 'aliens' built the likes of the pyramids and that a world religion linked Egyptian pyramids to Irish burial mounds to Central American pyramids. Stories of continents across the sea from Europe such as the Atlantis legend and then discovering this continent actually was there all along with a population with similar flood stories. Some articles like this have interesting claims:

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/11/131120-science-native-american-people-migration-siberia-genetics/

.

Years ago in the 90s- authors and investigative minded people like Graham Hancock were ridiculed by mainstream archeologists and skeptics for writing books and supporting the idea there was many human civilizations on earth pre 6000 years ago.

He had ride out the criticisms and take it and then Gobekli Tepe was found in Turkey buried deep down underneath the sand. Now dated to about 11,000 years ago or older. Archaeologists were convinced there was no humans civilizations before the Sumerians culture.

Hancock also supports and is convinced the Great Pyramid at Giza was built earlier then the time stated by mainstream historians and archaeologists. He was supported when Robert Schoch went to Egypt and carried out experiments and new investigation of the Sphinx, he found evidence water erosion had affected the Sphinx. Since the Sphinx is located in the dry desert, he realised the date given for the building of the Sphinx was not accurate. Hancock and others are falsely accused they believe Aliens build the Sphinx, not true, they have always believed the Sphinx was built by older unknown human civilization and was not the Egyptians.

Regards Atlantis. Plato mixed fiction with non-fiction. Clearly its impossible for Athens to be a centre piece in a battle with Atlantis. Athens as a state never existed during timeline he gave. The timeline he gave matches the melting of the Ice in Northern Europe and other earth changes that were occurring 11,000 years ago.. Plato also used real historical names and places in Greece and Egypt to convey and reveal the origin story about Atlantis.

Dohnjoe · 25-07-2019 5:49pm

Hancock is a bit of a woo doctor

Graham Bruce Hancock (/ˈhænkɒk/; born 2 August 1950) is a British writer and journalist. Hancock specialises in pseudoscientific theories[1] involving ancient civilisations, Earth changes, stone monuments or megaliths, altered states of consciousness, ancient myths, and astronomical or astrological data from the past.

His works propose a connection with a 'mother culture' from which he believes other ancient civilisations sprang.[2] An example of pseudoarchaeology, his work has neither been peer reviewed nor published in academic journals.[1][3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock

Would take his views with a large pinch of salt

Cheerful Spring2 · 25-07-2019 6:04pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Hancock is a bit of a woo doctor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock

Would take his views with a large pinch of salt

Your close minded atttitude does not change the fact most his theories have turned out be right.

Micheal Shermer one of most well known Skeptics apologised countless times to Graham on Joe Rogan podcast for misrepresenting his books in his skeptical mag. Michael even brought on university teacher to help him and he too started backtracking and accepted Hancock and his friend knew their stuff about ancient cultures and the past.

You never watch this of course, you just want to post your own ramblings.

Its excellent debate and well worth a watch. Dohnjoe stuck in past and thinks the world has not moved on from these silly debates.

Dohnjoe · 25-07-2019 6:20pm

Hancock isn't taken very seriously by real archaeologists and historians (you can read their views on his theories on history forums) He's considered more of an entertainer with some far out theories

Cheerful Spring2 · 25-07-2019 6:30pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Hancock isn't taken very seriously by real archaeologists and historians (you can read their views on his theories on history forums) He's considered more of an entertainer with some far out theories

All this discussed in the podcast. You wrong. Graham often speaks with mainstream archaelogists in the field and they agree on differents things about the past. This podcast is a valuable because they go over all the arguments the Skeptics talk about. If you to what to learn watch the podcast, if you prefer not to change your views, ok too, but you're living in the past. New discoveries have changed our understanding of the world and i mentioned one Gobekli Tepe in Turkey.

Dohnjoe · 25-07-2019 7:47pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

All this discussed in the podcast. You wrong. Graham often speaks with mainstream archaelogists in the field and they agree on differents things about the past.

Of course they agree, because he is using the same tools and references they are - the problem is he extrapolates zany theories and connections

Here's the rationalwiki on him
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock

He believed the "face on Mars" was literally real.

Here are responses to "askhistorians"
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8rlbwy/is_graham_hancock_a_reliablevalid_source/

I would agree he's more of a pseudo-archeologist and pseudo-scientist - and there's a big market for that kind of stuff

Ipso · 25-07-2019 9:13pm

Doesn’t his recent book claim that at one point ancient America was on a technological level comparable with Victorian England, and every single piece of evidence was wiped out but it can all be inferred from a mammoth bone.
Anyway, his ideas seem to be a rehash of Ignatius Donnelly's.

The Late Late Show · 26-07-2019 12:32am

I remember reading Ignatius Donnelly's stuff once and while I don't believe it, I also note that science as in present day science cannot explain everything. When and how did time begin? Big bang? What created the material in it? What was there before the universe? All these questions and NO SCIENTIST can solve the infinity issue.

No modern scientist really understands the dinosaurs, what they really looked like and how intelligent they were. A lot of it relies on assumptions. No human being today lived among them did they? Similar about the New World/The Americas/Atlantis: no one lived among the ancients of the place and there is some reason why Mesoamerica and South America were then much more advanced than North America.

Donnelly and others like him certainly wrote embellished 99% made up stuff but it did not mean it was all wrong either. Let's look at Atlantis theory in general: first of all, I DO believe in an 'Atlantis'. Some sort of a common sunworshipping pyramid orientated culture existed across the world and certainly, advanced cultures existed in many diverse locations. Could 2 cultures from America and Europe/Africa/Asia meet? Of course they could. Sea travel was very possible.

What 'Atlantis' never was of course was another continent out there in the Atlantic between Africa/Europe and the Americas. The 'real Atlantis' was the Americas and their advanced civilisations. What 'Atlantis' was not either was a culture as advanced and more advanced than now. I do not believe real cultures like the Mayans or Olmecs had air travel, electricity, space travel or nuclear weapons as some claim.

Professional science is based on formulae. Science does not 100% rule out anything but ignores everything that cannot be proven. For some sciences, this is easy: in Maths, 1+1 = 2 or 2 x 3 = 6 and so on. In physics, gravity pulls all solids and liquids back to the ground. In chemistry, an acid and a base form a salt. But archaeology and the study of prehistory are far less exact sciences. Therefore, a lot gets based on theories and scientists have to weigh up which theories make the most sense. No scientist worth his/her reputation will ever say they have all the answers and those who do are not telling us the truth.

Dohnjoe · 26-07-2019 1:30am

Indeed but good historians (and archaeologists, anthropologists, etc) use rigorous methods. Bad historians don't. There's a difference between the two.

On top of that there are a lot of historians in the world, and through the consensus of good historians we can build pictures of various time periods with varying degrees of accuracy

However when an isolated bad historian comes along making unique assumptions/theories - then the skeptic hat needs to be firmly on

Cheerful Spring2 · 26-07-2019 2:17am

The Late Late Show wrote: »

I remember reading Ignatius Donnelly's stuff once and while I don't believe it, I also note that science as in present day science cannot explain everything. When and how did time begin? Big bang? What created the material in it? What was there before the universe? All these questions and NO SCIENTIST can solve the infinity issue.

No modern scientist really understands the dinosaurs, what they really looked like and how intelligent they were. A lot of it relies on assumptions. No human being today lived among them did they? Similar about the New World/The Americas/Atlantis: no one lived among the ancients of the place and there is some reason why Mesoamerica and South America were then much more advanced than North America.

Donnelly and others like him certainly wrote embellished 99% made up stuff but it did not mean it was all wrong either. Let's look at Atlantis theory in general: first of all, I DO believe in an 'Atlantis'. Some sort of a common sunworshipping pyramid orientated culture existed across the world and certainly, advanced cultures existed in many diverse locations. Could 2 cultures from America and Europe/Africa/Asia meet? Of course they could. Sea travel was very possible.

What 'Atlantis' never was of course was another continent out there in the Atlantic between Africa/Europe and the Americas. The 'real Atlantis' was the Americas and their advanced civilisations. What 'Atlantis' was not either was a culture as advanced and more advanced than now. I do not believe real cultures like the Mayans or Olmecs had air travel, electricity, space travel or nuclear weapons as some claim.

Professional science is based on formulae. Science does not 100% rule out anything but ignores everything that cannot be proven. For some sciences, this is easy: in Maths, 1+1 = 2 or 2 x 3 = 6 and so on. In physics, gravity pulls all solids and liquids back to the ground. In chemistry, an acid and a base form a salt. But archaeology and the study of prehistory are far less exact sciences. Therefore, a lot gets based on theories and scientists have to weigh up which theories make the most sense. No scientist worth his/her reputation will ever say they have all the answers and those who do are not telling us the truth.

Perhaps but marine biologists found doggerland a large piece of land that sunk into the North Sea. Ireland and England and France was once just a giant piece of connected land in the past. So it is possible there was an ancient lost civilization lost to time that lived there. If you touch upon the Atlantis story it said it sunk after a destructive event occurred on earth. If you follow the story it claimed you find the land underneath the sea or ocean?

High strangeness part. You only have to review Irish myths and folklore and even there they talk about abductions and time travel, little people and fairies ( tuatha de dannan) Fairies in Irish lore are actually blond like looking human semi gods and strangely enough you find similar descriptions in UFO stories after 1945.

Discovery of Göbekli tepe has changed our understanding of the world back then. It was widely believed only a decade ago hunter-gatherers 11,000 years ago never settled and build temples and complex bulildings. Gobekli tepe has changed all this and now we have this mysterious site thats almost 6000 years older then Stonehedge. We don't know anything about this culture and were it came from. There finding large stones with 3D engraved images and this is sophicated stone work for hunter-gatherers. The fact Pyramids exist in South America and Egypt does suggest a sharing of ideas occurred between cultures who supposedly never met each other or interacted.

Cheerful Spring2 · 26-07-2019 2:34am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Of course they agree, because he is using the same tools and references they are - the problem is he extrapolates zany theories and connections

Here's the rationalwiki on him
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Graham_Hancock

He believed the "face on Mars" was literally real.

Here are responses to "askhistorians"
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/8rlbwy/is_graham_hancock_a_reliablevalid_source/

I would agree he's more of a pseudo-archeologist and pseudo-scientist - and there's a big market for that kind of stuff

Graham does not do all his work on his computer. You quoting people or listening to people who have never done any field work. Most of their knowledge is based on what they read in history books written by someone else. I appreciate Graham going to these places in Egypt and South America and doing field work and talking to people involved in digging and exploring ancient sites. I trust someone who did the hard work, over someone who pontifying on a reddit site. Most historians are book-related evidence investigators and nothing more.

Graham said the face on Mars was real. Can you provide some context and a link to what he said.

Cheerful Spring2 · 26-07-2019 2:45am

Ipso wrote: »

Doesn’t his recent book claim that at one point ancient America was on a technological level comparable with Victorian England, and every single piece of evidence was wiped out but it can all be inferred from a mammoth bone.
Anyway, his ideas seem to be a rehash of Ignatius Donnelly's.

You have show us all were he said that.

Mainstream Archeologists found a site older than Clovis and again mainstream accepted historical ideas collapsed.

Well done the Smithison for publishing this and they highlighted the opposition to this and their silly dogmatic approach.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/jacques-cinq-mars-bluefish-caves-scientific-progress-180962410/

Some of the sites could be 40,000 to 70,000 years old.
https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/charleston/scientists-have-unearthed-ancient-artifacts-that-are-upending-the-history-of-mankind/Content?oid=4092912

Dohnjoe · 26-07-2019 9:51am

Other historians and archaeologists don't go into the field? Of course they do. What a bizarre thing to write.

Graham said the face on Mars was real. Can you provide some context and a link to what he said.

Here's the blurb on his Mars book. Scientists believe water once flowed on Mars and that it had a denser atmosphere. The rest of this is stuff is an absolute leap of imagination.

In his most riveting and revealing book yet, Graham Hancock examines the evidence that the barren Red Planet was once home to a lush environment of flowing rivers, lakes, and oceans. Could Mars have sustained life and civilization?

Megaliths found on the parched shores of Cydonia, a former Martian ocean, mirror the geometrical conventions of the pyramids at Egypt's Giza necropolis. Especially startling is a Sphinx-like structure depicting a face with distinguishable diadem, teeth, mouth and an Egyptian-style headdress. Might there be a connection between the structures of Egypt and those of Mars? Why does NASA continue to dismiss these remarkable anomalies as "a trick of light"? Hancock points to the intriguing possibility that ancient Martian civilization is communicating with us through the remarkable structures it left behind.

In exploring the possible traces left by the Martian civilization and the cosmic cataclysm that may have ended it, The Mars Mystery is both an illumination of our ancient past and a warning--that we still have time to heed--about our ultimate fate.

Looks like any other pseudo-scientific fantasy novel, this one teases of a civilisation on Mars - it's aimed at non-critical wishful thinkers, a lucrative market.

Cheerful Spring2 · 28-07-2019 1:41pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Other historians and archaeologists don't go into the field? Of course they do. What a bizarre thing to write.

Here's the blurb on his Mars book. Scientists believe water once flowed on Mars and that it had a denser atmosphere. The rest of this is stuff is an absolute leap of imagination.

Looks like any other pseudo-scientific fantasy novel, this one teases of a civilisation on Mars - it's aimed at non-critical wishful thinkers, a lucrative market.

I saying most of the historians are teachers of history there job isn't to go looking for new evidence of lost civilizations. I fairly certain its expensive to do research in the field and most people are selected for this task. Robert Schoch even spoke about this on Joe Rogan podcast its very hard to fund private investigations. You have to get permits and be granded access if you want to carry out research in another country. In my opinion most of the people you find on history forums are armchair historians and have never been to places they talk about.

Regards your paste info. It not written by Graham is it? If it is please post the source. Someone else take on what he said is useles for this discussion.

Dohnjoe · 28-07-2019 2:09pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I saying most of the historians are teachers of history there job isn't to go looking for new evidence of lost civilizations. I fairly certain its expensive to do research in the field and most people are selected for this task. Robert Schoch even spoke about this on Joe Rogan podcast its very hard to fund private investigations. You have to get permits and be granded access if you want to carry out research in another country. In my opinion most of the people you find on history forums are armchair historians and have never been to places they talk about.

Regards your paste info. It not written by Graham is it? If it is please post the source. Someone else take on what he said is useles for this discussion.

Has Graham Hancock been to Mars? nope. He's using the same photographs and info that all other geologists, Mars experts, etc are using

The difference is, he uses those facts as a basis to leapfrog and springboard to a far-fetched (but exciting and book-selling) narrative

There's a market for that. It's the same way that the TV show "Ancient Aliens" works. They never actually state categorically that "aliens" are involved, they just use a smattering of facts, then indulge in a vast leap to entertain the fantasy that maybe "aliens" were involved

You are the target audience, it's lucrative.

Cheerful Spring2 · 28-07-2019 2:34pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Has Graham Hancock been to Mars? nope. He's using the same photographs and info that all other geologists, Mars experts, etc are using

The difference is, he uses those facts as a basis to leapfrog and springboard to a far-fetched (but exciting and book-selling) narrative

There's a market for that. It's the same way that the TV show "Ancient Aliens" works. They never actually state categorically that "aliens" are involved, they just use a smattering of facts, then indulge in a vast leap to entertain the fantasy that maybe "aliens" were involved

You are the target audience, it's lucrative.

You have not read his new book.

Secondly, you posting info written by someone else.

Graham Hancock believes there is a human face structure on Mars, provide evidence then.

Ancient Aliens is entertainment for UFO believers. David Wilcox is worst than Steven Greer and the reason i have never watched the show beyond season 2.

Dohnjoe · 28-07-2019 3:59pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You have not read his new book.

Secondly, you posting info written by someone else.

I don't need to read the book

From the independent's review

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/thursdays-book-the-mars-mystery-a-tale-of-the-end-of-two-worlds-by-graham-hancock-robert-bauval-and-1156438.html

The Mars Mystery retreads old ground with its examination of a couple of blurry photographs of Mars taken in the 1970s, purportedly revealing a mile-long, human-like face and a bunch of pyramids. Rarely can so little evidence have inspired so much speculation. Proponents of "life-on-Mars" theories claim the "face" must be artificial, and evidence of a lost Martian civilisation; NASA claims it's simply a natural rock formation.

Hancock, Bauval and Grigsby link the "face" with Egyptian mythology, the state of the surface of Mars, and the large comets and asteroids whizzing around the solar system. They conclude that the "face" could be a deliberate message to us, "a warning that a Mars-like doom lies in wait for the Earth unless we take steps to avert it."

The logical sloppiness of this book is breathtaking. The authors build much of their case on detailed geometric comparisons between measurements of Egyptian and Mexican pyramids - accurate to fractions of an inch or degree - and measurements of the supposed Martian pyramids. These come from photos in which each pixel (or dot) of the image covers over 2,000 square metres. Whatever one's views on extra-terrestrial life, this is just bad, bad science.

If you genuinely want to find out if a writer is credible or not, you can directly go to r/askhistorians. Likewise you can ask/find out on any archaeology, history, space, geology forum, read credible reviews, etc

If you have a closed mind and have decided all his works are automatically true (and want to lecture others on having closed minds) then no prob, just block out everything that doesn't validate your views/beliefs

batgoat · 28-07-2019 5:55pm

Also to assume academics in history or archaeology are simply teachers is pretty ignorant. Most of their work is research which includes field work. And unlike face on Mars guy, they actually face peer review on those findings.

Dohnjoe · 28-07-2019 8:04pm

batgoat wrote: »

Also to assume academics in history or archaeology are simply teachers is pretty ignorant. Most of their work is research which includes field work. And unlike face on Mars guy, they actually face peer review on those findings.

Indeed and to call a spade a spade here, some people just want to believe in the mystical, the fantastical, the mysterious, the conspiracy, the paranormal

Some "expert" says something they believe in - it must be true
A whole bunch of experts disagree based on scientific and logical reasoning - what do they know

There's also a blind disregard to the quality of that research. Some studies/research are low quality, and some are high quality.

On top of that there also seems to be this "maverick" syndrome (perhaps from watching too many movies) whereby they will believe a lone scientist over the mainstream opinion of scientists. The one versus the many. Which is coincidentally a popular plot mechanism in films, in real life it's much less common.

TLDR; some expertologist says something that sounds good to me, everyone else is wrong

Wibbs · 29-07-2019 7:34am

The Late Late Show wrote: »

When and how did time begin? Big bang? What created the material in it? What was there before the universe? All these questions and NO SCIENTIST can solve the infinity issue.

Time itself began when the universe began, there was no "before".

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The fact Pyramids exist in South America and Egypt does suggest a sharing of ideas occurred between cultures who supposedly never met each other or interacted.

or the simpler explanation that when you try to build a large structure the simplest and most stable one to build is a mound that's bigger at the bottom and smaller at the top and from that you get things like pyramids and ziggurats. Building something like a huge cube would be incredibly difficult even today. Never mind that the pyramids in the Americas and Egypt were built many thousands of years apart.

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-07-2019 1:46pm

batgoat wrote: »

Also to assume academics in history or archaeology are simply teachers is pretty ignorant. Most of their work is research which includes field work. And unlike face on Mars guy, they actually face peer review on those findings.

Not really. Historians work in different workplaces. They work in musuems, libaries, government archives, they employed to teach in schools and universities Most historians are researchers and write books based on their own research. You find me evidence the majority travel around the world exploring and are conducting research, then we can talk.

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-07-2019 1:58pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't need to read the book

From the independent's review

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/thursdays-book-the-mars-mystery-a-tale-of-the-end-of-two-worlds-by-graham-hancock-robert-bauval-and-1156438.html

If you genuinely want to find out if a writer is credible or not, you can directly go to r/askhistorians. Likewise you can ask/find out on any archaeology, history, space, geology forum, read credible reviews, etc

If you have a closed mind and have decided all his works are automatically true (and want to lecture others on having closed minds) then no prob, just block out everything that doesn't validate your views/beliefs

This newspaper article from 1998, you really went back to the past, to find a short negative book review.

This book has three authors also, so how can you tell who believes what?

Graham Hanock was mocked and ridiculed for decades for claiming there was lost civilizations. He is having the last laugh now. Gobekli Tepe is now dated to over 11,0000 years old.

There decription on one of the stones that describes a comet hitting the earth. Graham was saying this over a decade ago.He was attacked for this and called a fraud. Now is very different.

https://www.sciencealert.com/ancient-carvings-in-turkey-show-a-comet-hitting-earth-changing-civilisation-forever

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/04/21/ancient-stone-carvings-confirm-comet-struck-earth-10950bc-wiping/

odyssey06 · 29-07-2019 2:05pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Graham Hanock was mocked and ridiculed for decades for claiming there was lost civilizations. He is having the last laugh now. Gobekli Tepe is now dated to over 11,0000 years old.

Except the lost civilisations he claimed existed are not what was found at Gobekli Tepe.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-there-wasnt-an-advanced-civilization-12-000-years-ago/

Gobekli Tepe does not prove his hypothesis.

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-07-2019 2:10pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Except the lost civilisations he claimed existed are not what was found at Gobekli Tepe.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/no-there-wasnt-an-advanced-civilization-12-000-years-ago/

Gobekli Tepe does not prove his hypothesis.

Yes it does. Only 10 per cent has been dug up. It is a vast temple network with 3D carvings hardly the work of hunter gatherers. Humans were supposedly back then living in sparse groups just trying to stay alive and had no interest in astronomy and building. Gobekli Tepe is evidence of advanced civilization. The scientists issue is they have not found homes yet for these people. It could be they just have not unearthed the ruins yet.

Dohnjoe · 29-07-2019 2:14pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

This newspaper article from 1998, you really went back to the past, to find a short negative book review.

It's a book review from when the book came out

This book has three authors also, so how can you tell who believes what?

All 3 of them, since they put their names to the book

Not really. Historians work in different workplaces. They work in musuems, libaries, government archives, they employed to teach in schools and universities Most historians are researchers and write books based on their own research. You find me evidence the majority travel around the world exploring and are conducting research, then we can talk.

Let me translate this for others

"The archaeologist/historian I believe is correct, because that person did fieldwork on location"
"The views (and consensus) of other archaeologists/historians is irrelevant because they don't conduct fieldwork on location or only some of them do, and so what, what do they know"

Rather than accept that Hancock is not actually very good, not very credible, not taken seriously by other academics and might be wrong - you've decided that all other historians are wrong

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-07-2019 2:30pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's a book review from when the book came out

All 3 of them, since they put their names to the book

Let me translate this for others

"The archaeologist/historian I believe is correct, because that person did fieldwork on location"
"The views (and consensus) of other archaeologists/historians is irrelevant because they don't conduct fieldwork on location or only some of them do, and so what, what do they know"

Rather than accept that Hancock is not actually very good, not very credible, not taken seriously by other academics and might be wrong - you've decided that all other historians are wrong

You have not read the book. You just take the word of someone else who posted a negative review in 1998. You sought out a negative review for your own purposes.

Graham is not dogmatic, he often says he change his mind if new discoveries are found that contradict his views. About the main issue was there ancient lost civilizations on Earth, this theory is know longer nonsense.

Gobeiki Tepe is real mystery right there in Turkey, dated to 11,000 years old, dating is not disputed. You desperately just want to debunk something new and exciting for your own pleasure. Graham in his book Magicians of the Gods proposed a serious of comets struck the earth in the past and in 2017 Experts from Edinburgh University involved in the excavation discovered a stone tablet describing an event" comets hit the earth and climate rapidly changed for them. I not going to mock Graham when one his theories seems to be true.

odyssey06 · 29-07-2019 2:32pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Yes it does. Only 10 per cent has been dug up. It is a vast temple network with 3D carvings hardly the work of hunter gatherers. Humans were supposedly back then living in sparse groups just trying to stay alive and had no interest in astronomy and building. Gobekli Tepe is evidence of advanced civilization. The scientists issue is they have not found homes yet for these people. It could be they just have not unearthed the ruins yet.

Nothing has been found to prove Hancock's hypothesis or to suggest Gobekli Tepe could not have been built by HG.
During a comparable time period, Japan was inhabited by a hunter-gatherer culture, which reached a considerable degree of sedentism and cultural complexity - the Jomon Period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dmon_period

What has been found is completely and utterly insufficient to prove that there was an advanced civilisation for thousands of years BEFORE Gobekli Tepe, remember that Hancock states that it was built by the survivors of a great prehistoric civilization.

Gobekli Tepe isn't even a core part of that great prehistoric civilization "classical period", for want of a better word. It's a remnant.

Hancock is extrapolating back from one site, as the basis for proof of this great prehistoric civilisation. There's no grounds to do so.

I've read some of Hancock's works, the 14 year old in me would love for them to be true.
He is a man of talents, but these individual points of comets & Gobekli Tepe do not amount to proof of his core hypothesis.

Cheerful Spring2 · 29-07-2019 2:43pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Nothing has been found to prove Hancock's hypothesis or to suggest Gobekli Tepe could not have been built by HG.
During a comparable time period, Japan was inhabited by a hunter-gatherer culture, which reached a considerable degree of sedentism and cultural complexity - the Jomon Period:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C5%8Dmon_period

What has been found is completely and utterly insufficient to prove that there was an advanced civilisation for thousands of years BEFORE Gobekli Tepe, remember that Hancock states that it was built by the survivors of a great prehistoric civilization.

Gobekli Tepe isn't even a core part of that great prehistoric civilization "classical period", for want of a better word. It's a remnant.

Hancock is extrapolating back from one site, as the basis for proof of this great prehistoric civilisation. There's no grounds to do so.

I've read some of Hancock's works, the 14 year old in me would love for them to be true.
He is a man of talents, but these individual points of comets & Gobekli Tepe do not amount to proof of his core hypothesis.

11,000 years ago is a long time ago. We expecting to find trash is a bit of a leap. Since they have only unearthed 10 per cent of site, it logical it was work of an advanced civilization. To carry out work like this you need labour and resources and handful of people having done it, seems improbable. Mainstream view of hunter gatherers is wrong then obviously, if they were building large sized temple structures. We were led to believe they are were just survivalists.

I think its big deal to find a 3D tablet at Gobekli tepe with descriptions of an earth changing event, may i am just mad and alone for thinking this?

The Nal · 29-07-2019 2:48pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Gobeiki Tepe is real mystery right there in Turkey, dated to 11,000 years old, dating is not disputed.

Thats been known for 50 years. Hancock had nothing to do with its doscovery. Nada. Zero.

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You desperately just want to debunk something new and exciting for your own pleasure. Graham in his book Magicians of the Gods proposed a serious of comets struck the earth in the past and in 2017 Experts from Edinburgh University involved in the excavation discovered a stone tablet describing an event" comets hit the earth and climate rapidly changed for them. I not going to mock Graham when one his theories seems to be true.

Magicians of the Gods didn't even make it into the history section of the NY Times best sellers. Was listed under Religion, Spirituality and Faith. It and its author have been widely ridiculed by both the scientific and historical communities.

The "comets" he describes were first put forward in the 1600s, its called the Younger Dryas impact and has been talked about for over 400 years. "Seems to be true". I won't ask for proof, because theres none. Just a baseless theory.

Theres nothing new here. Just some chancer making a living from gullible people who buy his books. A Hello magazine historian.

He contends Göbekli Tepe is too advanced to have been built by hunter-gatherers alone, and must therefore have been constructed with the help of people from a more advanced civilization. Unfortunately for Hancock these people left behind no hard evidence for their existence...

It’s a romantic notion, but not the conclusion that the late great German archaeologist Klaus Schmidt came to after excavating Göbekli Tepe for more than two decades beginning in 1994. The site, he says, was used from 11,600 to about 10,000 years before the present

https://www.skeptic.com/reading_room/defant-analysis-of-hancock-claims-in-magicians-of-the-gods/

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/magicians-of-the-gods-review.html#.XT73D-hKjIU

This isn't even a conspiracy theory, its just a fantasy. He sells lots of books though.

Which conspiracy theories are real and which are not?

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