Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

mikemac2 · 03-12-2018 11:07pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I wouldn't mind moving to a European city such as Berlin, but Im way too lazy to learn a language other than English.

Germans speak better English than most Irish people in my experience!

Wibbs · 03-12-2018 11:08pm

theguzman wrote: »

The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground.

Complains about regressive societies, yet...

theguzman wrote: »

Probably Qatar

Jesus.

:D:pac:

Hey good luck to you, but pretty much no matter where you go in the world the locals are complaining about something and often with good reason. If you can stay long enough somewhere to earn enough cash before the grass is greener wears off then cool.

Rezident · 03-12-2018 11:11pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I wouldn't mind moving to a European city such as Berlin, but Im way too lazy to learn a language other than English.

I love Berlin too. A friend of mine moved there over a year ago but she still hasn't been able to find a permanent job!

RobbingBandit · 03-12-2018 11:14pm

500 will come for every 1 that leaves gods save the European union it's the best union ever, well except that credit union in Cork the EU could learn a thing or two about pulling the wool over peoples eyes from those guys.

hmmm · 03-12-2018 11:15pm

All the talk is of even higher taxes to pay for the "entitlements" of certain groups. I've no doubt that yet again these taxes will fall on the mid to higher paid workers, and they'll probably have another go at raiding pensions.

mikemac2 · 03-12-2018 11:16pm

Please take Ray D'Arcy with you

He told the nation he was leaving also. Maybe he needs a push

Grayson · 03-12-2018 11:19pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I wouldn't mind moving to a European city such as Berlin, but Im way too lazy to learn a language other than English.

I keep thinking about retiring in continental europe someday. Probably somewhere warmer.

I'd love to live somewhere in northern europe before that though.

_Kaiser_ · 03-12-2018 11:19pm

This will be unpopular but howandever...

It's hard to argue with the OP in many ways and some of the responses are just typical of people in this country - this unwavering blind allegiance to a country that in many ways is no better than some of the third world places we collectively like to look down on.

Yes we have a largely peaceful, politically stable (or I suppose you could also say stagnant) country with a generally liberal attitude to most things and those are certainly valuable and positive traits but there's so much else that is badly wrong too. This has become more evident in particularly the last few years with the lack of progress on key issues but the generally successful attempts to distract people with lots of easy-win social referenda instead.

There's the headline things like healthcare, tax, housing (whether it's too much or not enough) - all of which seem to be perpetually a problem that we never get meaningful traction on but there's more fundamental issues too... The parochial "me fein" attitudes that are only matched by the begrudgery and inability to accept anything or anyone that doesn't fit the Irish norms (all the "bye now" comments are evidence of that).

Add to that the half-assed "be grand" approach to pretty much everything (with predictable results) and people constantly trying to get one over on each other or "the man" (whether it be trying to get out of legitimate speeding tickets, or trying to find an angle to everything), and it's small wonder that things are the way they are really.
We get the politicians and system we deserve and it's unfortunately still a very accurate reflection of most of Irish society. We all give out about the latest political scandal or outrage but many privately admit that they'd do exactly the same things given half a chance, which is why it persists.

"Well if you don't like it, leave!" I hear all the indignant types shout. I've considered it in the past, but these days I have a child who I don't see enough as it is and I'm rapidly approaching my mid-40s so the chance has passed me by at this point anyway. That doesn't mean that I have to just accept that "it's how it is" though.

Could things be worse? Definitely, and a lot worse! But they could be a lot better too and to be fair we're only doing this "independence" stuff a hundred years and so we're still learning in many ways, but it would be great if we collectively started to objectively look at the flaws and the gaps and started to demand better of our society as a whole.

03-12-2018 11:19pm

Sure, Ireland sucks at times, buts it's my home for better or worse.
Never had any interest in leaving.

Best of luck to OP though.

MarkHenderson · 03-12-2018 11:20pm

theguzman wrote: »

I have decided to pack my bags in 2019 and leave Ireland, hopefully permanently.

The reason I am leaving is I no longer want to live in such regressive society where I am taxed into the ground. There is no incentive to do anything properly in the way I would like to do it.

Overall combined taxation rates are close to 80% and we don't get any useful public services.

Some quick facts below

VAT is 23%

Income tax is 20% on the first €43,550, 40% on earnings above this.

Mineral Oil Tax on Petrol is 54.1% plus Carbon Tax of 4.5% + VAT @ 23%
Mineral Oil Tax on Diesel is 42.5% plus Carbon Tax of 5.3% + VAT @ 23%

Stamp Duty is 1% of Purchase Price on purchase of a home on the first 1 million, 2% after first million.

Stamp Duty is 6% on all non Residential Property, e.g. Farmland or Commerical Property.

Universal Service Charge

Rate Income Band
0.5% Up to €12,012
2.5% From €12,012.01 to €19,372.00
4.75% From €19,372.01 to €70,044.00
8% From €70,044.01 to €100,000.00
8% Any PAYE income over €100,000
11% Non-PAYE (Self-employed) income over €100,000

Local Property Tax if you own your own home varies with most people having €300 to €600 of a levy to pay, depending on the value of your home.

Vehicle Registration Tax variesbut generates billions for the state each year on new and second hand cars imported from the UK.

CAT Inheritance tax is 33% So imagine you go through life and pay all these taxes and maybe save money and then you reach a point where you want to hand it over to your children or appointed heir, the state will then come along and take 33% of it off you, this is money which was prevsiouly taxed already.

There is many many more taxes which I haven't mentioned but the effective rate of tax is 80% and then you see people effectively working themselves into an early grave, busting their guts to keep the country moving for what?

With these levels of taxation you'd imagine we'd be living in a Socialist utopia,

Instead we have a total disgrace of a Health care system which exists as a dumping ground for the failed careers of Administrators. Nurses and Doctors who work here must be masochists to tolerate such a disaster.

Social Housing, there is thousands homeless, I don't care what their status or immigration documentations state, once again the money is there to fix this. If any of us drones who are paying these huge taxes fall on hard times the safety net is not there.

Public Transport, it might aswell not exist and where it does it is vastly over-priced.

Justice and Policing, neither exist other than to enforce these brutal taxation regimes, don't pay your taxes and you will likely spend longer in prison than a career thief or murderer. Rotating doors makes Ireland a criminals paradise.

Ireland has Nordic Taxation levels and developing country levels of public services.

Taxation is theft because you pay for nothing other than lies from corrupt politicians.

Why would a person bother working, you are better to draw welfare and have nothing to your name and just enjoy life because work does not pay in Ireland. I don't loathe these people, as a matter of fact I envy them. Why bother trying to do the right thing in Ireland when the Govt will tax it and take it away from you. Why bother respecting any law because you will not be punished.

Bank debt interest repayments. It's easy to blame things on a small minority on welfare but i find it gas nobody ever mentions it.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 03-12-2018 11:21pm

klaaaz wrote: »

No it doesn't by a long shot. Moaning about taxes and yet the taxes are lower here than other European countries. Sweden has a 56% top marginal tax rate, Denmark is 60%. Belgium is 50%(plus a muncipal 7%), Netherlands is about 52% and don't try to own property or a car in the Netherlands, you'll be quickly crying to come back to Ireland in that case!

Those are a few percentages off the top marginal tax here (incl prsi and usc). And clearly they get more in return.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-12-2018 11:32pm

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Good read. It’s also kind of a **** hole. Manky weather, dirty, too many ****heads.

Except yourself, of course.

P_1 · 03-12-2018 11:36pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This will be unpopular but howandever...

It's hard to argue with the OP in many ways and some of the responses are just typical of people in this country - this unwavering blind allegiance to a country that in many ways is no better than some of the third world places we collectively like to look down on.

Yes we have a largely peaceful, politically stable (or I suppose you could also say stagnant) country with a generally liberal attitude to most things and those are certainly valuable and positive traits but there's so much else that is badly wrong too. This has become more evident in particularly the last few years with the lack of progress on key issues but the generally successful attempts to distract people with lots of easy-win social referenda instead.

There's the headline things like healthcare, tax, housing (whether it's too much or not enough) - all of which seem to be perpetually a problem that we never get meaningful traction on but there's more fundamental issues too... The parochial "me fein" attitudes that are only matched by the begrudgery and inability to accept anything or anyone that doesn't fit the Irish norms (all the "bye now" comments are evidence of that).

Add to that the half-assed "be grand" approach to pretty much everything (with predictable results) and people constantly trying to get one over on each other or "the man" (whether it be trying to get out of legitimate speeding tickets, or trying to find an angle to everything), and it's small wonder that things are the way they are really.
We get the politicians and system we deserve and it's unfortunately still a very accurate reflection of most of Irish society. We all give out about the latest political scandal or outrage but many privately admit that they'd do exactly the same things given half a chance, which is why it persists.

"Well if you don't like it, leave!" I hear all the indignant types shout. I've considered it in the past, but these days I have a child who I don't see enough as it is and I'm rapidly approaching my mid-40s so the chance has passed me by at this point anyway. That doesn't mean that I have to just accept that "it's how it is" though.

Could things be worse? Definitely, and a lot worse! But they could be a lot better too and to be fair we're only doing this "independence" stuff a hundred years and so we're still learning in many ways, but it would be great if we collectively started to objectively look at the flaws and the gaps and started to demand better of our society as a whole.

Not unpopular at all though likely containing a few home truths that might be tough to swallow in certain quarters.

I wonder if this is a result of us becoming more international in our outlooks? For example seeing how things work in other countries and wondering, "it works there, why can it not work here?"

hill16bhoy · 03-12-2018 11:52pm

Given that the OP has stated they are pro-Irexit and anti-freedom of movement, it'd be tremendously ironic if they planned to move to another EU country.

Given that the OP has stated they are anti-immigration, it's tremendously ironic they're planning to emigrate at all.

I do hope the "way of life" in whatever country they go to survives their arrival, given that "survival of our way of life" (whatever that is) is one of their stated reasons for being anti-immigration.

whisky_galore · 04-12-2018 12:14am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This will be unpopular but howandever...

It's hard to argue with the OP in many ways and some of the responses are just typical of people in this country - this unwavering blind allegiance to a country that in many ways is no better than some of the third world places we collectively like to look down on.

Yes we have a largely peaceful, politically stable (or I suppose you could also say stagnant) country with a generally liberal attitude to most things and those are certainly valuable and positive traits but there's so much else that is badly wrong too. This has become more evident in particularly the last few years with the lack of progress on key issues but the generally successful attempts to distract people with lots of easy-win social referenda instead.

There's the headline things like healthcare, tax, housing (whether it's too much or not enough) - all of which seem to be perpetually a problem that we never get meaningful traction on but there's more fundamental issues too... The parochial "me fein" attitudes that are only matched by the begrudgery and inability to accept anything or anyone that doesn't fit the Irish norms (all the "bye now" comments are evidence of that).

Add to that the half-assed "be grand" approach to pretty much everything (with predictable results) and people constantly trying to get one over on each other or "the man" (whether it be trying to get out of legitimate speeding tickets, or trying to find an angle to everything), and it's small wonder that things are the way they are really.
We get the politicians and system we deserve and it's unfortunately still a very accurate reflection of most of Irish society. We all give out about the latest political scandal or outrage but many privately admit that they'd do exactly the same things given half a chance, which is why it persists.

"Well if you don't like it, leave!" I hear all the indignant types shout. I've considered it in the past, but these days I have a child who I don't see enough as it is and I'm rapidly approaching my mid-40s so the chance has passed me by at this point anyway. That doesn't mean that I have to just accept that "it's how it is" though.

Could things be worse? Definitely, and a lot worse! But they could be a lot better too and to be fair we're only doing this "independence" stuff a hundred years and so we're still learning in many ways, but it would be great if we collectively started to objectively look at the flaws and the gaps and started to demand better of our society as a whole.

Imho, the "it'll be grand'" mindset is at once charming and crippling at the same time. It's the reason why health, housing and planning of any sort are fcuking dire. The vain expectation that it will all somehow work out in the end.

The rebellious side of our nature can turn into all kinds of selfish and self-serving behaviour, high up and low down... cute hoorism, stroke pulling and working the system. Feather your own nest and fcuk everyone else and society as a whole.

04-12-2018 12:20am

The good ship Brexit Britain is sailing next year OP. Take care though.....

bazz26 · 04-12-2018 12:21am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Yeah, but they are border control 2018 champions.

And they don't need to build a wall either.

_Kaiser_ · 04-12-2018 12:22am

P_1 wrote: »

Not unpopular at all though likely containing a few home truths that might be tough to swallow in certain quarters.

I wonder if this is a result of us becoming more international in our outlooks? For example seeing how things work in other countries and wondering, "it works there, why can it not work here?"

I think there's certainly an element of that, even more frustrating given that we do already copy a lot of ideas and policies from elsewhere (usually the UK) but also repeat the same mistakes they did or give it enough of an "Irish twist" that it makes the situation worse.

I think ultimately it comes down to the lazy, apathetic and half-assed "be grand" approach I mentioned . Nothing is ever done with the long term in mind, everything is reactive, and always with the "what's in it for me" mindset. We don't think big picture and rarely beyond the boundaries of our own locale. This is why we have supposedly national TD's completely beholden to local interests - and of course a whole (largely redundant) local government infrastructure on top so the hangers on can get a piece of the pie as well.

The waste, the corruption, disinterest, and the outright incompetence is staggering in this country and it poisons everything - public services, core infrastructure projects, political behaviour... And yet we tolerate it and even expect it.

As you said, in many cases it's not even having to invent the wheel, it's making it turn properly and yet we generally can't even manage that.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 04-12-2018 12:28am

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's hard to argue with the OP in many way

People aren't disagreeing eith some of the issues the OP has, but he's seems to be blind to the fact that his opinion is probably reflected in most counties, esp in relation to taxation (just look at France). He's having a moan.... and to be honest, I imagine that's as far as he'll actually go.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

a country that in many ways is no better than some of the third world places we collectively like to look down on.

You need to examine some of those countries if you think we are no better. We have issues, no doubt. But in terms of places to live, esp if you want to start looking at 3rd World countries, we (generally speaking) are very fortunate (and it shouldn't be taken for granted) to have been born in Ireland.

Pinch Flat · 04-12-2018 12:30am

Can’t wait to see OPs post about Qatar in a few months. I’m sure it’ll all be grand. The craic will be 90 over there.

limnam · 04-12-2018 12:37am

NIMAN wrote: »

But I'm sure if you put your mind to it, you could provide us with a list of negatives about Australia.

Too fckn hot!

All those arseholes in thier GAA tops!

theguzman · 04-12-2018 12:40am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Can’t wait to see OPs post about Qatar in a few months. I’m sure it’ll all be grand. The craic will be 90 over there.

I'm a serious person, getting scuttered drunk is not something I do, the two last times I went to a pub was to take part in a quiz or for pub grub. I have traveled extensively around the world and actively avoid Irish people due their toxic relationship with Alcohol, my partner is not Irish and I have a different viewpoint to alot of Irish people on many things. Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

wakka12 · 04-12-2018 12:41am

Must be trolling if somebody thinks qatar is a better place to live..qatar and many of its neighbouring gulf states are everything a country shouldnt be.. completely excessive and wasteful in every aspect and totally morally bankrupt

04-12-2018 12:42am

theguzman wrote: »

I'm a serious person, getting scuttered drunk is not something I do, the two last times I went to a pub was to take part in a quiz or for pub grub. I have traveled extensively around the world and actively avoid Irish people due their toxic relationship with Alcohol, my partner is not Irish and I have a different viewpoint to alot of Irish people on many things. Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

your grammar is mediocre fyi

j8wk2feszrnpao · 04-12-2018 12:44am

theguzman wrote: »

getting scuttered drunk is not something I do

The craic doesn't have to mean getting scuttered drunk.

theguzman wrote: »

Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

What a generalizing load of b@ll@x.

igCorcaigh · 04-12-2018 12:45am

Money isn't everything. Points about lack of comeback from our taxes are very valid of course.

But to not care about the broader society you live in, to the extent that one would consider ditching this society for one like Qatar?

That seems very 'I'm alright Jack' to me.
Best of luck OP. Hope you enjoy the low tax lifestyle

04-12-2018 12:50am

Anyone as desperately unhappy in Ireland as the OP won't be long at all being desperately unhappy in the next place.

I'd say good luck but...you make your own luck or you make your own excuses ime. OP seems to have a long list of the latter as to why the country that educated, fed and housed him done him so wrong.

KevinCavan · 04-12-2018 12:55am

Housing is the the biggest issue here at the moment. Don’t own a house and ur fcuked, paying extortionate rent and unable to save a deposit. I don’t blame anybody who’s renting wanting to leave. It can feel like the government doesn’t care about average Joe here in Ireland. It is true that we get very little bang for our buck when it comes to the taxes we pay. In other countries childcare, dental care and medical care are all provided for free or heavily subsidized, by governments that use tax money wisely.

Pinch Flat · 04-12-2018 12:55am

theguzman wrote: »

I'm a serious person, getting scuttered drunk is not something I do, the two last times I went to a pub was to take part in a quiz or for pub grub. I have traveled extensively around the world and actively avoid Irish people due their toxic relationship with Alcohol, my partner is not Irish and I have a different viewpoint to alot of Irish people on many things. Mediocrity is celebrated here whilst success is vilified.

I didn’t mention anything about alcohol...

engiweirdo · 04-12-2018 1:00am

Because my hometown is ****e and the rest of Ireland is incredibly poor value.

Why I am leaving Ireland in 2019

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