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Housing Crisis and Immigration?

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    beejee wrote: »
    Has anyone else noticed a trend in "big plot" films over the last couple years?

    I can think of several where the plot involves eliminating huge swathes of people to save the planet. I haven't seen it, and don't intend to, but isn't that latest avengers film the same? Just from bits and pieces ive read it seems the bad guy has the same intention.

    Won't be long before its a cliché :p

    You're just pulling sentences out of your arse at this stage.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Housing crisis. Or are you talking about building more houses because of broadband in rural areas?

    We built more houses last year than any year since 2008.

    People need to relax and realise in a few years things will level out.

    This asking for a multi billion social housing build will only end one way.

    Ghost estates and too many houses.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    You're just pulling sentences out of your arse at this stage.

    A trite observation, but more the point is that the idea of overpopulation, "too many people", is something that's entering the mainstream conscious.

    Ive seen a few band-aid ideas in this thread, but nothing to assert that immigration is not the most important factor in housing problems.

    Maybe the lack of challenge is due to the acceptance of the idea?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    We built more houses last year than any year since 2008.

    People need to relax and realise in a few years things will level out.

    This asking for a multi billion social housing build will only end one way.

    Ghost estates and too many houses.

    I'm not so sure about levelling out. Going by another comment, over 60'000 people arrived into the country last year, and probably most into Dublin.

    The numbers could be much worse, but that means that to simply sustain the extortionate prices of Dublin 10's of thousands of rooms would need to have been built to keep pace, not actually improve.

    That's asking a lot, especially when the numbers are increasing generally over time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    beejee wrote: »
    I'm not so sure about levelling out. Going by another comment, over 60'000 people arrived into the country last year, and probably most into Dublin.

    The numbers could be much worse, but that means that to simply sustain the extortionate prices of Dublin 10's of thousands of rooms would need to have been built to keep pace, not actually improve.

    That's asking a lot, especially when the numbers are increasing generally over time.

    Building houses for anyone who says they need or want them isn’t the way.

    That just creates a monster that can’t be stopped and back into bust.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Free prams.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Building houses for anyone who says they need or want them isn’t the way.

    That just creates a monster that can’t be stopped and back into bust.

    I agree. I suppose it leaves 3 options.

    One is to keep building in a race that can't be won, as you say it's a bit daft.

    Two would be to continue drip feeding construction, but that equals perpetual housing crisis.

    Last option is to address the root problems and tackle it all head on. REITS, empty housing, foreign mega-landlords, Irish mega landlords etc. But the main antagonist that prevents these ideas having effect is never ending people arriving.

    I think people will slog along with option one and two, even though the frustration will continue to build up and up. But the slightest wobble in the economy and option three will be the only thing considered.

    That frustration is going to materialise sooner or later, so the country can deal with it now while there is control, or observe it later when it's out of hand. We have a fantastic reputation for foresight here, so... :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    We built more houses last year than any year since 2008.

    People need to relax and realise in a few years things will level out.

    This asking for a multi billion social housing build will only end one way.

    Ghost estates and too many houses.

    So steady the course and all will resolve itself. Grand so.
    beejee wrote: »
    A trite observation, but more the point is that the idea of overpopulation, "too many people", is something that's entering the mainstream conscious.

    Ive seen a few band-aid ideas in this thread, but nothing to assert that immigration is not the most important factor in housing problems.

    Maybe the lack of challenge is due to the acceptance of the idea?

    You're citing the latest Avengers movie ffs...

    We only need build enough that the market cools. Not everyone can afford a house, however the numbers who can are dwindling and government policy is helping that along.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    It's about time we started shipping people that don't and won't work out of Dublin as well as ending this ridiculous forever home nonsense. I'd rather live next door to a working immigrant than a dosser Irish person any day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    So steady the course and all will resolve itself. Grand so.



    You're citing the latest Avengers movie ffs...

    We only need build enough that the market cools. Not everyone can afford a house, however the numbers who can are dwindling and government policy is helping that along.

    I wasn't citing that avengers film. I was pointing to a trend in film plots.

    Your incorrect post got me to look though. Here's an article pulled off google

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/15/infinity-war-okja-overpopulation-cinema-ready-player-one-downsizing

    "crisis du jour" as they put it.

    Mainstream consciousness was my point. I think you may be suffering from "bitch eating crackers syndrome" :p

    And this market is going to "cool off" the way the economy had a "soft landing"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    There's a lovely Brazillian lady in work who cleans our toilets. Her English is improving every day.

    My boss is Puerto Rican.

    I was just handed my lunch by the canteen chef who likes to practice Irish phrases on everybody who visits the canteen. His daughter started learning Irish in school, so he's learning it to help her with homework. He's from Cameroon.

    I'd rather have these 3 people as neighbours than Deco, Jacinta and their ever growing brood of ill behaved, future criminal children.

    If we're dividing up the population based on arbitrary categories like whether or not they are scumbags, or whether they were born in a different country before deciding if they should be our neighbour, then I'm all for it!

    Do you play tennis OP? I think anybody who plays tennis should be evicted, made homeless and kicked out of the country.

    Am I doing this right?

    Ahhh, isn't that nice, cute story.

    Did the woman who cleans your toilet come to Ireland to clean toilets.
    If she came as a student she will never back to Brazil.

    Why are we in Ireland so keen on importing poor people from south America.

    I can't understand it.

    Where will they live, in shared dormitory style squeezed 5 and 6 to a room. What utter nonsense.

    We are feckless in Ireland, that's for sure.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    The housing crisis is caused by lack of construction. If we are ever going to get serious about fixing that, one thing we will need is for immigrant labour to come here and help build homes.

    And where will that labour come from? The majority of labour we have had to work in the construction industry has been from Poland and Eastern Europe. With the Polish and Eastern European economy growing more and more people from there are deciding to stay at home.

    See the problem the majority of immigration now is coming from outside the EU mostly third world countries. I have yet to hear of any large numbers of immigrants from Asia or Africa working in construction they don't have the skills or the work ethic to work in these sectors. The fact is many are playing the system looking for as much gratis as they can come by.

    According to the documentary 25% of people on the DCC housing are non national deport or make that 25% ineligible and you can cut the housing list significantly. This is Ireland the Irish come first.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    spurious wrote: »
    Free prams.


    Free cars for bein black.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Anyone see the two “homeless mothers” on tv3 news there?

    One has 5 kids and the government won’t give her a house big enough.


    Aghhhhhhhh someone make it stop.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    I think the Brazilians are lovely a much better type of human than the local pondlife currently inhabiting inner city Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    theguzman wrote: »
    I think the Brazilians are lovely a much better type of human than the local pondlife currently inhabiting inner city Dublin.

    I think theyre gorgeous, lovely, amazing. Except for the ones that committed murder there a while back, but you know, besides them, 100% of all brazilialn people cant be put on too high a pedestal.

    Oh and there are the ones running all those rickshaws selling drugs out the back of them, anyone about town at night will know what im talking about. But besides them, 100% of them are great.

    Just counter-balancing hyperbole!

    This idea of comparing an entire race of people from abroad as perfect against the lowest shyte in our own society is played out. Its old and stupid at this point.

    "I'd rather live beside hardworking, lovely martians than horrible irish people"....startling! But whats that got to do with anything though, really? Its not like youre going to identify great people from abroad and be able to swap them with terrible people from here.

    Youre still going to have the same people here you don't like, plus rolling the dice on who else arrives in. Its not an "either" situation, its an "in addition" situation, and that IS relevant to housing problems.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    theguzman wrote: »
    I think the Brazilians are lovely a much better type of human than the local pondlife currently inhabiting inner city Dublin.

    You’ve met all 208.5 million Brazilians??


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    You’ve met all 208.5 million Brazilians??

    A Brazilian of them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,268 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    It's about time we started shipping people that don't and won't work out of Dublin as well as ending this ridiculous forever home nonsense. I'd rather live next door to a working immigrant than a dosser Irish person any day.

    Or how forcing businesses and corporations to start training people with no work experience at entry level jobs, otherwise how in the name of god can they get work experience in first place.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    It's about time we started shipping people that don't and won't work out of Dublin as well as ending this ridiculous forever home nonsense. I'd rather live next door to a working immigrant than a dosser Irish person any day.

    How about living next door to several non working immigrants instead then.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,918 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    On Monday and Tuesday were spent travelling around the midlands and the one thing that caught the eye was the amount of closed up houses and shops that could be used for housing people if done up and rented out. There is plenty of properties not being used and if a scheme to regenerate was introduced would create work and help provide accommodation.
    The media have created the housing crisis mantra for Dublin, but this is only one place in Ireland where housing is required throughout the country. The rest of the country has a housing problem and needs some action to take place, all the towns we traveled through had people working in them who need housing also.
    At the moment in Ireland there is two types of people, the ones who work and the ones who want entitlement. As for immigrants who work fair play to them and in Ireland we have short memories about people travelling to work in other countries. What are our brothers and sisters in Australia, America, uk working called only Irish immigrants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    On Monday and Tuesday were spent travelling around the midlands and the one thing that caught the eye was the amount of closed up houses and shops that could be used for housing people if done up and rented out. There is plenty of properties not being used and if a scheme to regenerate was introduced would create work and help provide accommodation. The media have created the housing crisis mantra for Dublin, but this is only one place in Ireland where housing is required throughout the country. The rest of the country has a housing problem and needs some action to take place, all the towns we traveled through had people working in them who need housing also. At the moment in Ireland there is two types of people, the ones who work and the ones who want entitlement. As for immigrants who work fair play to them and in Ireland we have short memories about people travelling to work in other countries. What are our brothers and sisters in Australia, America, uk working called only Irish immigrants.


    So all the research that has been occurring about housing is bull****?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 348 ✭✭ifElseThen


    Gov need to incentivise desk/office jobs to transition to remote jobs, even on a part/time basis.
    I'd move further out of Dublin if I only had to come into the office 2 days a week.

    This would then benefit rural towns. Of course they'd want to remove those "Local Needs Apply" rules they have in place around the country when it comes to housing etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭ Kairo Broad Sleepwalker


    Edgware wrote: »
    But Miguel Ivanka etc will follow the traditional immigrant path and try to improve their circumstances and maybe even buy a house.
    Deco will continue to bleed the system and Jacinta will be happy as long as she has a house "near me Ma and me sisters"

    There was 24 social houses built down the end of my row, 20 of them are foreign national families who like deco and Jacinta would sleep on the floor if work was in the bed.

    I don`t think the contributors are the problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn


    Have you tried hiring a chef lately? Restaurants in Galway have restored to offering accommodation as part of the package.

    Have they tried sprucing up their employment offers with higher wages?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    We are at pretty much full employment now in Dublin. The IDA should cease promoting Dublin and look to promote the rest of the country. Until we are getting 40,000 dwellings per month being built, growth is unsustainable in Dublin. I know a lot of medium salaried immigrants from other European countries who came here for sales/basic tech jobs and the majority have gone home or moved on, mainly because of the rental crisis.

    Any talk of jobs being created now means people from abroad coming over to the country. It is time to let the growth and immigration of the past few years settle in with a focus on fixing the rental crisis, figuring out where we are going generally, what infrastructure etc is needed as a priority.

    My main fix would be to tax institutionals as they pay no tax and reduce the tax dramatically which is paid by landlords in conjunction with abolishing USC in order to free up more cash for people to spread around the economy.
    The IDA do try and promote outside Dublin but multi nationals want basic infrastructure such as airports and motorways. Cork and Limerick have some chance but Donegal Mayo etc are not in the running.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Or how forcing businesses and corporations to start training people with no work experience at entry level jobs, otherwise how in the name of god can they get work experience in first place.


    Volunteer like the rest of us did or start at the bottom rung in retail/food service like the rest of us did. Besides if you're motivated enough to find a job you will, I was referring to the wasters that aren't even looking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Volunteer like the rest of us did or start at the bottom rung in retail/food service like the rest of us did. Besides if you're motivated enough to find a job you will, I was referring to the wasters that aren't even looking.


    Should all volunteers be paid, I think so?

    I do believe those that say, as inequality rises, so to does social mobility, many get stuck in low paid jobs for long periods of time, some indefinitely.

    Why aren't these 'wasters' looking?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Should all volunteers be paid, I think so?

    They're not volunteers then are they?
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Why aren't these 'wasters' looking?

    Because they're wasters, probably second or third generation and benefits are too good if you plop out some crotch goblins.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭Cordell


    beejee wrote: »
    So the problem can be identified, but don't worry about it and continue being unhappy?
    No, absolutely not.
    While do I agree that the level of immigration is probably too high, and Ireland needs to do more about filtering them especially when it comes to welfare and benefits, I also believe that immigration is not a cause in itself. Lack of planning and lack of supply is the main cause, and also LL taking houses off the rental market because of adverse rules and regulations is a huge part of the problem.
    Having any level of social housing in areas where the demand greatly outweighs the supply is another cause.
    beejee wrote: »
    And people wonder how bad situations get worse and worse. In my opinion either something will be done to rectify this disastrous course, or else it will naturally explode in a much more uncontrollable and violent way. Pick your poison.
    Absolutely, nothing should be shielded from debate.
    beejee wrote: »
    No one is really trapped, of course, they can always live in the underwater cities dotted around Irelands coastline and get all those aqua farming jobs :P
    Where there is an abundance of jobs there will be an abundance of people doing those jobs hence expensive housing. This is how it works, you can't have it both ways.


This discussion has been closed.
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