Taxi drive complaint - NTA

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 10:56pm

usernamegoes wrote:

Anyone being interviewed with the potential of a criminal prosecution has these rights and they must have them told to them. The NTA is the prosecution authority under the 2013 Act not the Garda. Authorized officers of the NTA therefore do the interviewing.

I understand that but refusing to accept a fare isn't a criminal offence. They wouldn't interview him under caution when there is no criminal offence. Even if they did interview him under caution it's not the type of information they can share. The under caution part shouldn't be shared with you. It has no bearing on your complaint.

I think a taxi driver, Losty Dublin, already pointed out that private bookings like radio companies & Web based aps are exempt from from the law refusing a fare. Vandriver pointed out that you put in your destination when you book an Uber cab so the driver already knows where you are going before he accepts the job.

I'm sorry but it all sounds made up to me

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:06pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I can't speak for other drivers but when I was in the trade and on the way to a booked pickup and saw somebody trying to hail and asked me, I'd let them know I was on my way elsewhere but if they were en route then yeah I would. Different story if you were doubling back but if it was handy then hell yeah, why not.

Some canny base staff at cab firms would do similar with their drivers; if they knew you could pick up a fare en route to another fare then they'd get you to do both.

Sue me if you want for doing this

This is what I expect happened. Most drivers are on their way to a fare already these days and some would chance their arm pulling in, in the hope your going in the right direction. Personally as a driver I wouldn't do it unless I was creeping in traffic I'd explain the situation.
I wouldn't do it for fear of what the op has done, as an annoying as it can be for the Op whats the point in chasi g it up. More hassle for him especially if it goes to court. I'd just tell the nta to leave it if it was me personally.

punisher5112 · 10-02-2019 11:10pm

When is something going to be done about the abuse of bus stops especially by taxis.

It's shocking the amount I can't get in safely to get the elderly on/off safe or wheelchair users.

It's actually getting worse.

usernamegoes · 10-02-2019 11:12pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I understand that but refusing to accept a fare isn't a criminal offence. They wouldn't interview him under caution when there is no criminal offence. Even if they did interview him under caution it's not the type of information they can share. The under caution part shouldn't be shared with you. It has no bearing on your complaint.

I think a taxi driver, Losty Dublin, already pointed out that private bookings like radio companies & Web based aps are exempt from from the law refusing a fare. Vandriver pointed out that you put in your destination when you book an Uber cab so the driver already knows where you are going before he accepts the job.

I'm sorry but it all sounds made up to me

Yes it is an criminal offence Read sub-s4 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2013/act/37/section/23/enacted/en/html#sec23

NTA agreed with me that the taxi was plying for trade or engaged for trade therefore s23(2) applied.

Believe it or not. Posted so that others will know what to do if the same thing happens to them.

For those interested here's the email I got back (redacted for privacy)

Dear Mr. usernamegoes,

I refer to the above complaint.

I am to advise that the driver in this case was interviewed under caution on the 09 January 2019. The detail of your complaint was outlined to the driver and he was afforded the opportunity to respond. Having considered the detail of your complaint together with the responses of the driver it was decided that the appropriate resolution in this case was to issue the driver with a Fixed Payment Notice in the sum of €80.00 for the unreasonable refusal of a fare.

The matter is now closed and the National Transport Authority will take no further action in this case except where the driver fails to make payment within the statutory period. However, your complaint will be retained on file should similar complaints arise against this driver in the future. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for drawing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely,

XXXXXXX,
Compliance Officer

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:15pm

usernamegoes wrote: »

It's getting harder and harder to get a taxi. No new normal licenses have been issued since 2011; look at NTA stats.

Is a wheelchair accessible vehicle not a normal vehicle? They can carry just as many passengers as a saloon and extra luggage and on top of that the licence is significantly cheaper than the saloon licences used to cost.
The reason for the lack of people taking up taxi driving is the difficult test(which I agree should be hard, and no GPS can replace local knowledge, Google maps doesn't know everything) and the extortionate insurance premiums during the first 3 years.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:17pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

When is something going to be done about the abuse of bus stops especially by taxis.

It's shocking the amount I can't get in safely to get the elderly on/off safe or wheelchair users.

It's actually getting worse.

start your own thread buddy totally off topic.

KevinCavan · 10-02-2019 11:18pm

This kind of behaviour puts everybody off using taxis and off taxi drivers.

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 11:20pm

usernamegoes wrote:

Believe it or not. Posted so that others will know what to do if the same thing happens to them.

I'm not a taxi driver nor do I use the aps. It still makes no sense to me but thanks for going to the trouble of posting. If I am wrong I'm sorry for doubting you.

usernamegoes · 10-02-2019 11:20pm

iamtony wrote: »

Is a wheelchair accessible vehicle not a normal vehicle? They can carry just as many passengers as a saloon and extra luggage and on top of that the licence is significantly cheaper than the saloon licences used to cost.
The reason for the lack of people taking up taxi driving is the difficult test(which I agree should be hard, and no GPS can replace local knowledge, Google maps doesn't know everything) and the extortionate insurance premiums during the first 3 years.

No, it's an unnecessary barrier to entry.

I for one couldn't care if my driver just follows the GPS, get rid of the rule for Uber-stlye services and people know what they're dealing with if the route isn't as "expert" as someone who passed an exam.

Insurance could be dealt with via group coverage by the Uber-style operator. Pass a law which permits same. I am sure a group policy would work out cheaper than one guy trying to negotiate it themselves

magentis · 10-02-2019 11:22pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

When is something going to be done about the abuse of bus stops especially by taxis.

It's shocking the amount I can't get in safely to get the elderly on/off safe or wheelchair users.

It's actually getting worse.

Spot on.

They feel like they can jam on and pick up passengers anywhere they want,often in moving traffic.Obstructing bus stops and sitting on clearways,taking stupid chances on the road.The insurance premiums they pay are well justified and should be higher.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:22pm

KevinCavan wrote: »

This kind of behaviour puts everybody off using taxis and off taxi drivers.

Yeah your right it is unfortunately, although I will say most don't do this kind of thing. Its very common In other countries.

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 11:24pm

iamtony wrote:

Is a wheelchair accessible vehicle not a normal vehicle? They can carry just as many passengers as a saloon and extra luggage and on top of that the licence is significantly cheaper than the saloon licences used to cost. The reason for the lack of people taking up taxi driving is the difficult test(which I agree should be hard, and no GPS can replace local knowledge, Google maps doesn't know everything) and the extortionate insurance premiums during the first 3 years.

Taxi drivers don't consider them normal vehicles as they cost so much to buy in the first place. The plates /licences everyone wanted was the non wheelchair plates. Less outlay.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:29pm

usernamegoes wrote: »

No, it's an unnecessary barrier to entry.

I for one couldn't care if my driver just follows the GPS, get rid of the rule for Uber-stlye services and people know what they're dealing with if the route isn't as "expert" as someone who passed an exam.

Insurance could be dealt with via group coverage by the Uber-style operator. Pass a law which permits same. I am sure a group policy would work out cheaper than one guy trying to negotiate it themselves

yeah in theory you wouldn't mind but I Google maps will always use the fastest route which can be much much longer and more expensive. As an example going from the airport to stillorgan it will send you around the m50 which would cost about 60 quid while the direct route through the city is about 35. Many many examples of this. And also it doesn't allow for bus lanes which will be quicker etc.

Also uber wouldn't be any cheaper in the city for most journeys were not expensive as taxis go worldwide where uber can come in and massively undercut. Here it might be 20% cheaper then ad on the extra time spent in traffic and the fare would be roughly the same for the most part. Be careful what you wish for.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:33pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Taxi drivers don't consider them normal vehicles as they cost so much to buy in the first place. The plates /licences everyone wanted was the non wheelchair plates. Less outlay.

so you think we should just say Fook the disabled person they don't need more taxis! Why not get rid of the disabled spot on buses cause you had to stand one day and there could of been 2 extra seats.
We have enough saloons we need more wheelchair vehicles simple as that.

Spook_ie · 10-02-2019 11:34pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Taxi drivers don't consider them normal vehicles as they cost so much to buy in the first place. The plates /licences everyone wanted was the non wheelchair plates. Less outlay.

But as of when they were the only licenses being issued they became the norm, saloon licenses, unless you've nominated a death transfer using form S15N and accepted after death by form S15A, are literally dying out.

If you want more taxis then they should consider schemes how to remove vrt for wheel chair taxis and make the entry cheaper, they already subsidise WATs by a grant scheme but it's not sufficient IMO

punisher5112 · 10-02-2019 11:35pm

iamtony wrote: »

start your own thread buddy totally off topic.

How is it off topic it's a complaint but the funny part is the nta doesn't want to know.....

I've had it happen where I've booked a taxi on my taxi and 6 agreed and as soon as they got close they cancelled as they would have got a fare at the entrance.

This was at club 92. I walked to the N11 to actually get a taxi to then go pick up the wife back at the club.

They obviously stopped for people out on the road and most likely got a better price as I have seen before where they would say give €50 but the fare would be €20 or so.

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 11:37pm

iamtony wrote:

yeah in theory you wouldn't mind but I Google maps will always use the fastest route which can be much much longer and more expensive. As an example going from the airport to stillorgan it will send you around the m50 which would cost about 60 quid while the direct route through the city is about 35. Many many examples of this. And also it doesn't allow for bus lanes which will be quicker etc.

I'm not disagreeing with you but Another side to the coin is that the sat nav knows where there is traffic. The day that poor lady died on the finglas exit my Tom Tom directed me away from it and saved me an hour or more sitting in traffic.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:39pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

How is it off topic it's a complaint but the funny part is the nta doesn't want to know.....

I've had it happen where I've booked a taxi on my taxi and 6 agreed and as soon as they got close they cancelled as they would have got a fare at the entrance.

This was at club 92. I walked to the N11 to actually get a taxi to then go pick up the wife back at the club.

They obviously stopped for people out on the road and most likely got a better price as I have seen before where they would say give €50 but the fare would be €20 or so.

omg you had trouble getting a taxi after niteclub:eek:
And don't get me started on bus drivers:pac:
P. S I never stop in a bus stop unless I reeeaaallyyy have to.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:41pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you but Another side to the coin is that the sat nav knows where there is traffic. The day that poor lady died on the finglas exit my Tom Tom directed me away from it and saved me an hour or more sitting in traffic.

I use Google maps for every journey, even collecting my kids from school for this reason but I know better than it for the most part. It might be sending me one way cause traffic is heavy on the normal route but I know I've a bus lane on that road and it wouldn't effect me.
Its a wonderful guide but I wouldn't like my taxi driver using it as gospil that's for sure.

Spook_ie · 10-02-2019 11:44pm

iamtony wrote: »

I use Google maps for every journey, even collecting my kids from school for this reason but I know better than it for the most part. It might be sending me one way cause traffic is heavy on the normal route but I know I've a bus lane on that road and it wouldn't effect me.
Its a wonderful guide but I wouldn't like my taxi driver using it as gospil that's for sure.

Googlemaps to a driver is the same as a decent set of tools to an electrician etc. It's a tool to help and if you don't know how to use your tools you're just a cowboy.

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 11:44pm

iamtony wrote:

so you think we should just say Fook the disabled person they don't need more taxis! Why not get rid of the disabled spot on buses cause you had to stand one day and there could of been 2 extra seats. We have enough saloons we need more wheelchair vehicles simple as that.

Ah no. I didn't say that. I just pointed out how the taxi drivers view them and why there isn't a big uptake of them. You'll need a taxi driver to give you real facts but the disabled cars cost something like 20k more to put on the road. There's plenty would like to be taxi drivers but they can't afford the disabled cars. If they had regular plates then you'd have more cars on the road. The test isn't putting too many off. It's the cost of the disabled cars

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:50pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Ah no. I didn't say that. I just pointed out how the taxi drivers view them and why there isn't a big uptake of them. You'll need a taxi driver to give you real facts but the disabled cars cost something like 20k more to put on the road. There's plenty would like to be taxi drivers but they can't afford the disabled cars. If they had regular plates then you'd have more cars on the road. The test isn't putting too many off. It's the cost of the disabled cars

yeah they aren't cheap that's for sure but I think they are doing the right thing.
There isn't a lack of saloon taxis in the city, the ratio of taxis to population is much higher than most major cities in the world.
The problem is everyone wants them at the same time. I can show you photos from Friday night just gone I seen in taxi WhatsApp groups like the old Carlsberg add with so many taxis clogging up the streets.
And the people who complain are generally the ones who only use them a few times a year and have trouble getting out of town at 4 am Saturday night and think there should be a neverending stream of taxis passing by with the light on. If that was the case on a Saturday night you can bet the rest of the week we would be complaining of thousands of taxis(or ubers if some got their way) causing traffic jams all over the city.

Sleeper12 · 10-02-2019 11:51pm

Spook_ie wrote:

If you want more taxis then they should consider schemes how to remove vrt for wheel chair taxis and make the entry cheaper, they already subsidise WATs by a grant scheme but it's not sufficient IMO

Definitely need something like this.

iamtony wrote:

I use Google maps for every journey, even collecting my kids from school for this reason but I know better than it for the most part. It might be sending me one way cause traffic is heavy on the normal route but I know I've a bus lane on that road and it wouldn't effect me. Its a wonderful guide but I wouldn't like my taxi driver using it as gospil that's for sure.

I'm in appliance repair and put up 60 to 100 miles a day. Like you I have sat nav on all the time. I suppose I'm the opposite to taxi drivers in that I need the quickest route all the time. I was in lucan the other day and the quickest way to my next job in sandymount was over the west link through the port tunnel and over the road east link. Not cheap as far as tolls are concerned but time is money to me

pgj2015 · 10-02-2019 11:57pm

gmisk wrote: »

That would be fine...but he had his light on and pulled in when we put hands out...then he asks where we are going...and then suddenly he has a fair....it doesnt sound likely does it? Or fair in the least to me.

I will be carrying on with the complaint.

get a life. maybe he thought you were the fare who booked him? then when he pulled in he realized it wasn't you who booked the taxi. big deal if he had the light on or off, get over it. you must not have much to be worried about reporting something like this.

iamtony · 10-02-2019 11:57pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Definitely need something like this.

I'm in appliance repair and put up 60 to 100 miles a day. Like you I have sat nav on all the time. I suppose I'm the opposite to taxi drivers in that I need the quickest route all the time. I was in lucan the other day and the quickest way to my next job in sandymount was over the west link through the port tunnel and over the road east link. Not cheap as far as tolls are concerned but time is money to me

Now you have it. My kids school run again is faster via the m50 but would cost double in a taxi rather than the slightly slower way that I would take a punter on the same journey. Its a bit messed up really but that's the way it is.

punisher5112 · 11-02-2019 12:14am

iamtony wrote: »

omg you had trouble getting a taxi after niteclub:eek:
And don't get me started on bus drivers:pac:
P. S I never stop in a bus stop unless I reeeaaallyyy have to.

Don't be so childish.....

Of course it's hard but 6 accepted my request and cancelled this as they arrived at the main road entrance just outside to the race course.

That's not on.

Don't get you started on bus drivers! What's that got to do with taxi complaints.

pgj2015 · 11-02-2019 12:21am

how about this situation, taxi driver is in city centre, gets a call to pick up customers in foxrock, sees people on street looking for taxi, asks where they are going to see if its on his way, but they are not going that way. drives away, what harm is done? let this go op, dont be taking food off his table or from his kids mouths. its a tough job being a taxi driver, things like this happen.

Spook_ie · 11-02-2019 12:26am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Don't be so childish.....

Of course it's hard but 6 accepted my request and cancelled this as they arrived at the main road entrance just outside to the race course.

That's not on.

Don't get you started on bus drivers! What's that got to do with taxi complaints.

You want to hijack a mytaxi on the way to a pickup, stand at side of road looking at phone then taxis as though you're looking for a roof sign number, due to the way people don't allow their GPS to lock on, it shows on the driver app as being anywhere in a 1 or 2 mile radius, so driver asks are you such n such, you answer they just left in another taxi and away you go, and yeah I'd say easy enough to happen 6 times.

iamtony · 11-02-2019 12:38am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Don't be so childish.....

Of course it's hard but 6 accepted my request and cancelled this as they arrived at the main road entrance just outside to the race course.

That's not on.

Don't get you started on bus drivers! What's that got to do with taxi complaints.

this thread was not a general taxi bashing thread, it was a specific complaint and the op was asking for advice.
I said you were hijacking when you mentioned abuse of bus stops and you said you something about getting elderly and wheelchairs getting off safely so I assumed you were a bus driver.
Word of advise, don't bother using mytaxi after a nightclub or concert or match breaks. Taxi drivers will not wait for you to show up when there's lots of passengers.
Its not nessisarily a taxi driver complaint as much as it is a MyTaxi complaint. Usually a driver will accept a booking head to the destination them realise there's loads of people looking for taxi and just cancel your request.
Too many people think mytaxi is the only way to get a taxi these days, in some instances its easier to go the traditions route. And in general people that can't get a taxi on mytaxi doesn't mean there's a shortage of taxis, try one of the other companies they might not be as busy or use your arm, or a rank even!

Marcusm · 11-02-2019 5:46pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

I can't speak for other drivers but when I was in the trade and on the way to a booked pickup and saw somebody trying to hail and asked me, I'd let them know I was on my way elsewhere but if they were en route then yeah I would. Different story if you were doubling back but if it was handy then hell yeah, why not.

Some canny base staff at cab firms would do similar with their drivers; if they knew you could pick up a fare en route to another fare then they'd get you to do both.

Sue me if you want for doing this

I see this works on a prebooked time based call - say a 7:30pm pickup but on the App it’s generally for immediate vicinity so wouldn’t, to my mind, be appropriate.

Taxi drive complaint - NTA

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