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Cycle train

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Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 512 ✭✭✭Dakotabigone


    Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

    I'd say there would a much larger tailback of traffic should those ~60 children be in ~60 cars.
    Duffryman wrote: »
    I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

    Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

    I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?

    The adults need to be there to keep the children safe. They should probably do smaller groups of children than the one we saw on RTE though. The point is to keep the group together, hence stopping traffic on the roundabout. Honestly, if all those kids were in cars for that 3km, traffic would be moving a lot slower.

    With the volume of children the 'bus' is carrying, you couldn't have them all on the footpath. Part of the point of the 'bus', one would assume, is to show how many children could be cycling to school when it is made safer for them to do so.
    Duffryman wrote: »

    Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.

    Using a useable cycle lane falls into that same category. Lest we forget, many cycle lanes are not fit for purpose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Duffryman wrote: »
    ....Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator....
    WTF?

    Road Traffic Gereral Bye Laws 1964:
    23.—(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

    SIGNALS TO OTHER ROAD USERS.

    Intended course of action

    Signal to be given

    I am going to slow down or stop.

    Extend the right arm and hand fully with the palm turned downwards, and move the arm slowly upwards and downwards.

    I am going to turn to the left.

    In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the right arm and hand to the right, and rotate them in an anticlockwise direction.

    In the case of a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

    I am going to turn to the right.

    Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

    (2) Whenever a driver wishes to indicate to a pointsman the direction he wishes to take, he shall give either a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or a signal by using a direction indicator :

    SIGNALS TO POINTSMEN.

    Intended course of action

    Signal to be given

    I want to go straight ahead.

    Extend the forearm and hand upwards with the palm to the front.

    I want to turn to the left.

    In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle, point the right forearm and hand (with the fingers extended) to the left.

    In the case of a cycle or an animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

    I want to turn to the right.

    Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

    (3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom it is intended.

    (4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.

    We do indeed. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?

    Yes, in the same way that all traffic jams are Formula 1 in slow motion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Duffryman wrote: »

    Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.

    Have a look at these and tell me again if you think courtesy is the big issue

    http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

    Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

    If that's the best reason not to have the cycle bus that you can come up with, they are on very solid ground.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Still, there's precedent for road users to get punished for holding up traffic.

    If you've drivers slowed to 10km/h for 3km, you might get one hell of a tailback.

    The lads running the cycle train need to be aware of that.

    Or maybe somebody could show the drivers in the tailback how to overtake safely?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,002 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yes, but they also need to have respect.

    It goes both ways.

    Just in terms of the 'respect goes both ways' point, cyclists don't kill motorists by making mistakes. It's a completely false equivalence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,257 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00


    The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

    Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

    What are you on about?? :confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Mooretaxi wrote: »
    Great to see the kids cycling to school but how can the adults get away with the blatant disregard for the traffic? Cycling in the middle of the road and stopping the bike on the roundabout blocking the traffic that would have had the right of way on the roundabout etc.
    I’m all for kids being able to cycle but at the very least the people organizing this publicity event should have led by example, it’s quite possible that the next time one of those kids come to a roundabout that they think they automatically have the right of way
    https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/0125/1025475-schools-galway-cycling/

    In summary. You want traffic to give up their right of way, for other traffic, because you think it has right of way, when it doesn't.

    Also you think this is a blatant disregard for the traffic, because of your blatant disregard for traffic (cyclists).
    Safety, and not capacity, is the over-riding principle for good roundabout design.

    My experience is cycling in lane is the safest way around a round about. Go around it like a car. Drivers for some reason treat a cyclist in lane with the same respect as a car, spacing etc. But if you leave space for a car to pass you, they will push you to the side or ignore you like you're not there. Which is why a cycle lane on a roundabout rarely works. Hence....
    4.8.2 Integration or Segregation and Roundabout Capacity
    No Cycle Lanes on Roundabouts

    Cycle lanes should not be included in the circulating section of roundabouts. Cyclists should be either mixed with traffic on roundabouts in a single circulating lane (i.e. cycle logos in the traffic lane, no cycle lane) or else segregated from traffic by physical means.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    ...A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo....
    He was fined and banned because he ignored the fixed penalty notice and subsequently, he didn't appear in court.

    Had he paid the FPN and/or appeared in court there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would have been banned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

    Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    beauf wrote: »
    Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.
    Yet you will hear idiots saying that they are late for work because they were held up by a cyclist. No mention of the 500 private cars that were only 20% occupied that they encountered on their route.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Eh no. Slow vehicles frequently pull in to allow cars to pass.

    You need to be considerate of other road users.
    A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo.

    I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.

    Cars pulling in to let fastest cars fast is a rare as hens teeth.

    The motoring forum has endless threads of people complaining being held up by slower drivers and demanding everyone drive at the max speed limit. They don't even seem to know that not all vehicles have a same limit.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    There is a certain irony about people in cars complaining about traffic. They seem to forget they they themselves are the traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    WTF?

    Road Traffic Gereral Bye Laws 1964:
    These bye-laws were revoked, but similar provisions still apply.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print
    18 Signals by Drivers

    18. (1) A driver intending to slow down, stop, or alter course, shall either give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp, as appropriate, or give the appropriate hand signal set out in Table A in the Second Schedule.

    (2) A driver shall indicate the direction in which the vehicle is to be driven to a member of the Garda Síochána by giving either a signal by using a direction indicator or the appropriate hand signal set out in Table B in the Second Schedule.

    (3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom such signal is intended.

    (4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Cycle bus, not cycle train

    Train as in multiple vechicles or pack animals following each other.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,594 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    beauf wrote: »
    This is 60 cars taken off the road.

    Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Duffryman wrote: »
    I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

    Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

    I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?

    Without the adults protecting the children, cars would speed past them closely and scare and endanger them. Do you think that’s ok?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.

    How do you know that they parents drive to work or even work in the first place?

    Every school should have something like this operate. It’s delightful to see and happy children should cheer up even the grumpiest of adults in cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Without the adults protecting the children, cars would speed past them closely and scare and endanger them. Do you think that’s ok?

    Not only that some driver's do not have any spacial awareness at all.

    I see it a lot where the dithering idiot hasn't a breeze and is within an inch of taking them out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,358 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Cyclists are 'traffic' too and a bicycle is defined as a 'vehicle' in road traffic legislation.

    Why differentiate them? Do you see cyclists as some sort of second class road users?


    Of course they are, but you cannot proceed on to a roundabout just because the cyclist in front of you had a clear road. It is not clear that they are not doing that, they seem to following the person in front.



    This is a disgrace, especially cycling across zebra crossings, which should be reserved for pedestrians, the most vulnerable class of road user. Encouraging children to break the law is never a good plan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I see two sides to this.

    The parents are right to block the road to protect large numbers of kids on bikes.

    On the other hand, it's a bit self indulgent to think your kid and their enjoyment is so important that you can block everyone else going about their business.

    As a once off it's fine, but if this becomes a thing they need to have more consideration for other road users.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    hmmm wrote: »
    I see two sides to this.

    The parents are right to block the road to protect large numbers of kids on bikes.

    On the other hand, it's a bit self indulgent to think your kid and their enjoyment is so important that you can block everyone else going about their business.

    As a once off it's fine, but if this becomes a thing they need to adhere to the cycle lanes.

    Regardless of when I’m in the car, on the bike or on the bus, I get held up by motorists. It’s very self indulgent of them blocking me from going about my business.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,358 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Regardless of when I’m in the car, on the bike or on the bus, I get held up by motorists. It’s very self indulgent of them blocking me from going about my business.


    If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,643 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    "cyclists should pull in to let cars pass"

    you'd be pulling in every 10 seconds if you followed that advice. Wait until it's safe, then overtake, same as anywhere else.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.
    If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

    The people on bikes in the cycle bus are going about their business lawfully (apart from the guy stopping on the roundabout) but I’m sure you agree that him stopping is better than a distracted driver taking out a dozen children. As for crossing at the zebra crossing. I don’t know the road but surely the safety of people should be paramount and if it’s safer then great.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    If motorists are going about their business lawfully then that is congestion. This film shows people obstructing the road deliberately because they consider their business more important.

    People sitting in a car knowing it's the most congested city in Ireland are deliberately causing congestion.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/galway-bad-traffic-3-3727711-Dec2017/

    Cyclists are perfectly lawful in using the roundabout as they do.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.

    Off the road on this route. Did that really need explaining.

    Drivers spend endless threads complaining about school time traffic. Some of it gets removed and they are still complaining.

    The only solution to that is stop driving to work and causing your own problem.


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