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Is sociology a real science?

  • 04-08-2020 9:36am
    #1
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭


    My other half studied sociology up to a masters level, and maintains that it isn’t.


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Comments

  • #2
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I studied it for years, and yes it is.
    It has been taken over by politics (even when I studied the subject it was extremely leftist).


  • #3
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    It's a proper, respectable discipline alright, but as Biko points out it's been largely railroaded by American-style "identity politics" buffa-biscuit.


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    It's a social science, based on surveys and observations. Is it in the same league as astrophysics. No.


  • #5
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    biko wrote: »
    I studied it for years, and yes it is.
    It has been taken over by politics (even when I studied the subject it was extremely leftist).

    She did use a lack of objectivity as her main argument, so I’m assuming that’s what she meant.


  • #6
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,155 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    It's a social science, based on surveys and observations. Is it in the same league as astrophysics. No.

    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    KaneToad wrote: »
    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?


    The Science of Literalism. Literally.

    A graduate yourself, I imagine.


  • #8
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,512 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Was always seen as an “easy” subject to take on for first year for anyone doing a “wishy-washy” Arts degree in UCD back in my day.

    Has that changed at all?

    The tide is turning…



  • #9
    El Tarangu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭El Tarangu


    KaneToad wrote: »
    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?

    Yes.

    Maths -> Physics -> the other phyiscal ones -> the social ones -> economics -> psychology


  • #10
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gailforecast wrote: »
    She did use a lack of objectivity as her main argument, so I’m assuming that’s what she meant.


    Your girlfriends opinion on whether it is or it isn’t science is hardly objective either, is it?

    It’s one of the sciences alright, but like any discipline or subject, it’s corrupted by human influence.

    It’s a well observed phenomenon btw since the inception of the social sciences. It’s only in recent decades however, ironically due to the rising popularity of the social sciences, that it’s become more noticeable -


    The over-sampling of American college students may be skewing our understanding of human behavior, finds an analysis by researchers from the University of British Columbia. In a forthcoming issue of Brain and Behavioral Sciences, anthropologist Joe Henrich, PhD, and psychologists Steven Heine, PhD, and Ara Norenzayan, PhD, review the available database of comparative social and behavioral science studies. They found that people from Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic (WEIRD) societies — who represent as much as 80 percent of study participants, but only 12 percent of the world’s population — are not only unrepresentative of humans as a species, but on many measures they’re outliers.


    Are your findings ‘WEIRD’?


  • #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    In some parts of the world yes. In Ireland with our class of academics, not so much. I'm sure we have one or two standouts in the field but we've some real time wasters too.


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  • #12
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    KaneToad wrote: »
    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?
    Obviously maths.


  • #13
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    KaneToad wrote: »
    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?
    Obviously maths.


  • #14
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Well, it's an 'ology', innit?


  • #15
    wench
    Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭wench


    KaneToad wrote: »
    There is a league of sciences?
    What is top of these rankings?
    https://xkcd.com/435/


  • #16
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Maths isn't a science


  • #17
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Your girlfriends opinion on whether it is or it isn’t science is hardly objective either, is it?

    It’s one of the sciences alright, but like any discipline or subject, it’s corrupted by human influence.

    It’s a well observed phenomenon btw since the inception of the social sciences. It’s only in recent decades however, ironically due to the rising popularity of the social sciences, that it’s become more noticeable -


    The over-sampling of American college students may be skewing our understanding of human behavior, finds an analysis by researchers from the University of British Columbia. In a forthcoming issue of Brain and Behavioral Sciences, anthropologist Joe Henrich, PhD, and psychologists Steven Heine, PhD, and Ara Norenzayan, PhD, review the available database of comparative social and behavioral science studies. They found that people from Western, educated, industrialized, rich and democratic (WEIRD) societies — who represent as much as 80 percent of study participants, but only 12 percent of the world’s population — are not only unrepresentative of humans as a species, but on many measures they’re outliers.


    Are your findings ‘WEIRD’?

    How can an individuals opinion be anything other than subjective? However I dare say having studied the subject to a masters level, her opinion is fairly valid.


  • #18
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Maths isn't a science

    Maths follows a rigorous structure of events leading to a tentative conclusion, so I would say it’s certainly more of a science than sociology.


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    If a area of study is longer (much longer) on soft theory than it is on evidence - as is the case with sociology, I don't consider it science as I define the term. Same with subjects like psychology.

    That doesn't mean I don't consider them worthwhile academic pursuits, they clearly are.


  • #20
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gailforecast wrote: »
    How can an individuals opinion be anything other than subjective? However I dare say having studied the subject to a masters level, her opinion is fairly valid.


    That’s exactly my point. Your girlfriends opinions are subjective, but that being true says nothing about whether sociology itself is objective. Having studied the subject to Masters level doesn’t make her opinions on whether sociology is a science or not any more or less valid than anyone else’s - opinions are still subjective.

    The science of sociology itself, is objective, however it’s influenced by humans subjective opinions based upon their own observations. I wouldn’t agree with you that because a person has a Masters in sociology they’re qualified to determine whether the discipline is a science or not. It’s simply the case that it is objective, no matter how your girlfriend feels about it.


  • #21
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    I have an undergraduate degree in physics, a masters in economics, and a PhD that had elements of social science and sociology.

    Those of you who think of sociology as not being a science are completely wrong. Ok, it's very different than physics but the social sciences simply cannot use the same approaches as the hard sciences - just because this is the case it does not make them any less valid.

    The OP suggests that the hard sciences are free from subjectivity. Many academics carrying out statistical analysis don't have statistical training and often time results may be misinterpreted, or worse manipulated or p-hacked.


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  • #22
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That’s exactly my point. Your girlfriends opinions are subjective, but that being true says nothing about whether sociology itself is objective. Having studied the subject to Masters level doesn’t make her opinions on whether sociology is a science or not any more or less valid than anyone else’s - opinions are still subjective.

    The science of sociology itself, is objective, however it’s influenced by humans subjective opinions based upon their own observations. I wouldn’t agree with you that because a person has a Masters in sociology they’re qualified to determine whether the discipline is a science or not. It’s simply the case that it is objective, no matter how your girlfriend feels about it.

    But this isn’t about someone’s opinion, the thread wasn’t called “Is my partner right?”. I’ve no idea why your chasing this line.


  • #23
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gailforecast wrote: »
    But this isn’t about someone’s opinion, the thread wasn’t called “Is my partner right?”. I’ve no idea why your chasing this line.


    I’m chasing it precisely because the question you asked was “Is sociology a real science?” and gave your girlfriends opinion that it isn’t, as though she is in a position to make that determination based upon the fact that she has a Masters in sociology.

    Your question relates closer to philosophy than sociology, but that’s a whole other discussion.


  • #24
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    endacl wrote: »
    Well, it's an 'ology', innit?
    Like astrology?


  • #25
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    TCD Business Economics and Social studies.. not even they have the Chutzpah to call is social "science"


  • #26
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    I’m chasing it precisely because the question you asked was “Is sociology a real science?” and gave your girlfriends opinion that it isn’t, as though she is in a position to make that determination based upon the fact that she has a Masters in sociology.

    Your question relates closer to philosophy than sociology, but that’s a whole other discussion.

    No I don’t think you understood the question correctly, nor have you answered it effectively.


  • #27
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,638 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gailforecast wrote: »
    No I don’t think you understood the question correctly, nor have you answered it effectively.


    Ok then, cheers, I’ll leave you to it so.


  • #28
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Ok then, cheers, I’ll leave you to it so.

    Good, that’s for the best.


  • #29
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    gailforecast wrote: »
    Maths follows a rigorous structure of events leading to a tentative conclusion, so I would say it’s certainly more of a science than sociology.

    And that's what makes it a science? What's your understanding of a real science then?


  • #30
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    endacl wrote: »
    Well, it's an 'ology', innit?

    Jesus that's an obscure one!


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  • #31
    jimgoose
    Registered Users Posts: 20,174 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    riffmongous wrote: »
    And that's what makes it a science? What's your understanding of a real science then?

    Some say that mathematics isn't a science because it doesn't rely on empirical evidence. Others, like Gauss, would have it quite the contrary, that mathematics is queen, mother, grandmother and dotty Auntie Mildred who has way too many cats of the sciences. I suspect we won't solve it satisfactorily here. :pac:


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