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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Ridiculous idea and I'm glad I live near the border.

    Vodka, anyone? https://groceries.asda.com/product/vodka/smirnoff-premium-vodka/18883


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    dfeo wrote: »
    The government are set to bring in minimum alcohol pricing.

    A slab of 24 cans will have a minimum price of €48 and a bottle of spirits will be a minimum of €28.

    Ultimate nanny state bolloxogy and pandering again to the vitners association.

    I'm on touch site, so link to follow.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1124/834033-alcohol-research-rcsi/

    (Misspelling in the headline ... no surprises coming from that North Korean unionised crap rag anyway.)

    This is absolute nonsense in my opinion. Even the cheapest of beers (shop own brand) will have to be sold at €2 per can (1 Euro per unit of alcohol). Naggins will be a minimum of €8, 70cl bottles will be €28, cans of beer €2 and a whopping €40 for a litre of spirits.

    We are heading on a slippery slope towards a fascist Nazi-style dictatorship. Ireland is a First World country, I believe in capitalism. If someone over the legal drinking age wants to buy a can of beer at 50 cents and a shop is offering the cans at such a price, then why should a Hitler-style government stop them?


    We have a winner for the "What ignorant pleb terminology can I rob from the British tabloids" category: "nanny state" used in the first post. And Nazis. And fascists. And anti- trade unions. Impressive.


  • #64
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,057 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »
    Ridiculous idea and I'm glad I live near the border.

    Vodka, anyone? https://groceries.asda.com/product/vodka/smirnoff-premium-vodka/18883

    Yes. For the first time in a long time living on the border is a good thing :P

    I can get a slab of 24 beers for €25 already in this place

    They'll probably lower prices a bit too when / if minimum pricing comes in here.


  • #65
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,106 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    TallGlass wrote: »
    Just thinking about it there also. Would it not have made more sense to restrict the alcohol content of products? IE, bring cans down to 2/3% max and spirits down to 21% max. I really fail to see how price is going to stop an alcoholic from buying the same amount of drink. You don't see people addicted to heroin saying '**** lads, too expensive for me today, I will have to take a break'. Oh wait. Forgot they problem doesn't exist according to this government cause heroin is illegal.

    Class.

    21%? I drink Whiskey. I can't think of a single one that's that low. Sure some Irish distillers might be able to make a product with a lower percentage but every single foreign whiskey would have to be removed from the shelves. No more scotch :(


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Anything the brings the cost to me down of funding these idiots with alcohol problems is welcome.

    I'm sick of them clogging up our A&E departments, killing hundreds of people on Irish roads each year, missing innumerable work days which my taxes have to subsidise, assaulting innocent people on our streets, and destroying the lives of chislers and their long-suffering partners because of their addiction. All of society suffers because of their weakness/selfishness.

    At the very, very least all alcohol advertising should be banned in its entirety. It's not as if these drug companies are advertising because it's ineffective at increasing the purchase of their drug.

    The same unevolved troglodytes (with apologies for the tautology) who scream "nanny state" at this one would have also been outraged at the
    "interference" which fire, food and safety regulations symbolised when they were first introduced in a different era.


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  • #67
    9or10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 664 ✭✭✭9or10


    entropi wrote: »
    Although there is certainly a problem with a portion of the population and their ability to control their drinking habits, this is a self-serving exercise and will benefit nobody but vintners. I foresee a repeat of people flocking up North for cheaper alcohol for certain.

    The last part is probably true, so how does that benefit vintners?


  • #68
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,548 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    RasTa wrote: »
    I spent €25 on 3 beers and two of them were 330ml. This won't affect me so I hope it's brought in and pushes more people towards nicer plonk.

    It will because businesses will always try to price their way away from the cheaper stuff.

    More expensive cheap stuff. More expensive expensive stuff.

    Thems are how it works buddy


  • #69
    Dr Crayfish
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Yes. For the first time in a long time living on the border is a good thing :P

    I can get a slab of 24 beers for €25 already in this place

    They'll probably lower prices a bit too when / if minimum pricing comes in here.

    In fairness I'm pretty sure crates of Guinness are 25e in Dunnes right now


  • #70
    Cupcake_Crisis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    If they were taking that extra money and funnelling it directly into addiction services or alcohol education I'd probably have no problem with this. But the world and his wife knows that it'll just be used to pay someone's already over inflated wage packet.

    It'll have the opposite effect. People will just start making monthly trips up north to stock up.


  • #71
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »
    If they were taking that extra money and funnelling it directly into addiction services or alcohol education I'd probably have no problem with this. But the world and his wife knows that it'll just be used to pay someone's already over inflated wage packet.

    It'll have the opposite effect. People will just start making monthly trips up north to stock up.

    Beer Barron will be daily.


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  • #72
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Anything the brings the cost to me down of funding these idiots with alcohol problems is welcome.

    I'm sick of them clogging up our A&E departments, killing hundreds of people on Irish roads each year, missing innumerable work days which my taxes have to subsidise, assaulting innocent people on our streets, and destroying the lives of chislers and their long-suffering partners because of their addiction. All of society suffers because of their weakness/selfishness.

    At the very, very least all alcohol advertising should be banned in its entirety. It's not as if these drug companies are advertising because it's ineffective at increasing the purchase of their drug.

    The same unevolved troglodytes (with apologies for the tautology) who scream "nanny state" at this one would have also been outraged at the
    "interference" which fire, food and safety regulations symbolised when they were first introduced in a different era.

    Clogged up a&e, hundreds killed on the roads every year and huge work days lost.
    Presumably youve got evidence to back up those sensationalist facts yeah?


  • #73
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,929 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Anything the brings the cost to me down of funding these idiots with alcohol problems is welcome.

    I'm sick of them clogging up our A&E departments, killing hundreds of people on Irish roads each year, missing innumerable work days which my taxes have to subsidise, assaulting innocent people on our streets, and destroying the lives of chislers and their long-suffering partners because of their addiction. All of society suffers because of their weakness/selfishness.

    At the very, very least all alcohol advertising should be banned in its entirety. It's not as if these drug companies are advertising because it's ineffective at increasing the purchase of their drug.

    The same unevolved troglodytes (with apologies for the tautology) who scream "nanny state" at this one would have also been outraged at the
    "interference" which fire, food and safety regulations symbolised when they were first introduced in a different era.
    Minimum pricing will do nothing to impact any of this. It will solely affect alcohol bought in off-licenses/supermarkets for consumption at home. How many people do you see being admitted to A&E following a bottle of wine at home, or fighting in the streets at 3am after having a few beers with friends watching tv? I'd wager none. They're all coming out of pubs & clubs which are unaffected by this law and lobbied for it for no other reason than to stifle competition.


  • #74
    0ph0rce0
    Registered Users Posts: 3,913 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    More bollocks i see, We'll give you a fiver a month back in tax but try and **** you every other way pretending that we care about your health.

    Same sneaky ****e to get money out of you. They really are a bunch of *****.

    Everything now days has some made up tax or levy on it, They won't get involved in anything to help the common folk but just try to drive up the price for everything as the higher the price the higher amount of money they get in

    Take the motor insurance for instance, Everyone knows the companies are taking the piss but they won't get involved with insurance companies because every motor policy has a 5% government levy, The higher the premium the higher amount of euro they take in. Same with everything in the country.

    Still love Ireland though. Up the ra


  • #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Yes. For the first time in a long time living on the border is a good thing :P

    I can get a slab of 24 beers for €25 already in this place

    They'll probably lower prices a bit too when / if minimum pricing comes in here.

    Isn't it the plan though not to bring it in until theres MU pricing in NI as well? 2018 isn't it?


  • #76
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    17-pdr wrote: »
    Isn't it the plan though not to bring it in until theres MU pricing in NI as well? 2018 isn't it?
    **** it day trip to France it is then.


  • #77
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    For every government decision you have to see who the lobby group behind it is. Insurance premiums are sky high because the legal profession has the government in it's pockets and they're basically saying "listen here buddy, we got a nice gravy train going here, it would be very unwise to piss in our soup".
    Builders used to be very powerful, that's why they could build cardboard rabbit hutches just about anywhere and shoddy as you like, because they could flog €40k (if that) worth of timber and cardboard for €350k.
    This decision is exactly the same, vintners lobbyist whispering in the government's ears "listen here now buddy, people don't go to the pub anymore, now we don't fancy having to compete, lowering our prices or, God help us, come up with something new instead of the same auld sh*te, so you'd want to do something about that now and pronto!".
    Add to that the fact that half the government are either publicans or in the legal profession and we can see exactly who has written themselves a license to gut the public like kippers and make an absolute killing for themselves.
    Government in Ireland is simply about what lobby group has the most influence and gets to rip off the people.
    Absolutely none of it has anything to do whatsoever with anyone being concerned about anyone's health. As long as they have your money you could lie dead in the gutter for all these greedy bastards care.
    Same lie as "carbon tax" having anything to do with any kind of environmental concerns.
    And plenty of turkeys here banging the table and demanding Christmas already, what's taking so long.


  • #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Dr Crayfish wrote: »
    In fairness I'm pretty sure crates of Guinness are 25e in Dunnes right now

    They won't be that price if this crazy idea goes through. But they will still be that price in the north.


  • #79
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    bear1 wrote: »
    Clogged up a&e, hundreds killed on the roads every year and huge work days lost.
    Presumably youve got evidence to back up those sensationalist facts yeah?

    Cost to the health care system of alcohol related illnesses €1,200 m
    Cost of alcohol related suicides 167 m
    Cost of alcohol related road accidents 526 m
    Cost of alcohol related crime €1,189 m
    Cost of output lost due to alcohol related absence from work 330 m
    Cost of alcohol related accidents at work 197 m
    Cost of alcohol related premature mortality 110 m

    Total €3,719 100

    That's millions

    https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj8rcHK5c7QAhWHtxQKHQePDQ0QFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Falcoholireland.ie%2Fdownload%2Freports%2Falcohol_costs%2Fcosts-to-society-of-problem-alcohol-use-in-ireland-hse-2010.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEhldidxbhKf7zUbQ1aVofdml8Bjw


    But I still don't see how this measure :-) will combat our drinking culture, Irelands relation to its alcohol consumption is a long & complicated one,& it has survived wars, recessions Celtic tigers and back again.


  • #80
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Cost to the health care system of alcohol related illnesses €1,200 m
    Cost of alcohol related suicides 167 m
    Cost of alcohol related road accidents 526 m
    Cost of alcohol related crime €1,189 m
    Cost of output lost due to alcohol related absence from work 330 m
    Cost of alcohol related accidents at work 197 m
    Cost of alcohol related premature mortality 110 m

    Total €3,719 100

    That's millions

    https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj8rcHK5c7QAhWHtxQKHQePDQ0QFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Falcoholireland.ie%2Fdownload%2Freports%2Falcohol_costs%2Fcosts-to-society-of-problem-alcohol-use-in-ireland-hse-2010.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEhldidxbhKf7zUbQ1aVofdml8Bjw

    So the government came up with an idea that will not increase revenue, but simply drive up the black market, won't affect pub trade and encourage home brewing and illegal hooch.
    So the problem will only get worse but there won't be more money to deal with it.
    Can you see where this might be a daft idea?


  • #81
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    The flying mouse wrote: »
    Cost to the health care system of alcohol related illnesses €1,200 m
    Cost of alcohol related suicides 167 m
    Cost of alcohol related road accidents 526 m
    Cost of alcohol related crime €1,189 m
    Cost of output lost due to alcohol related absence from work 330 m
    Cost of alcohol related accidents at work 197 m
    Cost of alcohol related premature mortality 110 m

    Total €3,719 100

    That's millions

    https://www.google.es/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj8rcHK5c7QAhWHtxQKHQePDQ0QFggqMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Falcoholireland.ie%2Fdownload%2Freports%2Falcohol_costs%2Fcosts-to-society-of-problem-alcohol-use-in-ireland-hse-2010.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEhldidxbhKf7zUbQ1aVofdml8Bjw


    But I still don't see how this measure :-) will combat our drinking culture, Irelands relation to its alcohol consumption is a long & complicated one,& it has survived wars, recessions Celtic tigers and back again.

    That's a 6 year old report.
    And it doesn't prove that hundreds are dying on the roads due to it nor does it answer any of the other stuff the poster claimed.
    And the 3 billion is over how long a period?


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  • #82
    brightspark
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭brightspark


    If they want to make it more expensive, just raise the duty.

    ALL drinks are going to increase in price as a result of minimum pricing, who is going to buy Dutch Gold if it's the same price as Carlsberg? so the brewers will increase the price of every can to maintain the price differentials.

    I'd prefer to pay 50c extra in duty for every drink and know it's going into the tax pot instead of paying 50c extra to Diagio and other drinks companies.

    Minimum pricing is only of benefit to the drinks industry, and of course the substantial number of politicians who either own pubs or have relations who do.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    bear1 wrote: »
    Clogged up a&e, hundreds killed on the roads every year and huge work days lost.
    Presumably youve got evidence to back up those sensationalist facts yeah?

    If you're questioning what's happening in Irish A&Es I sense you're one of these post-truth Trump/Farage sorts for whom truth and facts don't actually matter - or else you've never actually visited an A&E, which is unlikely. Just in case facts do matter, however:

    1) A&E and alcohol:

    Almost 30% of all injury attendances in A&E departments are alcohol-related, the HSE has said.

    There were over 17,000 drink-related discharges from hospitals in 2013 and this absorbs 10 per cent of the public health budget, it says.




    2) Deaths in Irish society from alcohol:


    Three people die from alcohol a day in Ireland, report shows (June 2016)

    Alcohol is a factor in one in 10 cases of breast cancer and one in three presentations for self-harm. The report says an estimated 167,170 people suffered an alcohol-related assault (June 2016)




    3) Deaths on Irish roads & alcohol:


    Source 1: Well, according to this November 2016 report: "23,949 people have died on Irish roads since records began in 1959"

    23,949/57 = an average of 420 road deaths per year in Ireland.

    Source 2: As for the link between alcohol and these accidents: "Ireland has a chronic drink driving problem. 18,851 drivers were arrested on suspicion of drink driving in 2007. A total of 18,053 drivers were arrested on suspicion of drink driving in 2008. That’s an average of around 347 drivers arrested each week for drink driving in the Republic of Ireland."

    Source 3: Two in five fatal road traffic collisions in Ireland are alcohol-related.




    4) Alcohol & pressure on Irish health system

    Every night, 1,500 hospital beds are occupied for alcohol-related reasons




    5) Alcohol & absenteeism/lost Irish productivity

    'In Ireland, the value of output lost due to alcohol-related absences from work was of Eur 330 million (9% of the total costs of absences from work) and the cost of alcohol-related accidents at work at EUR 197 million (5% of total work-related accident costs), in 2007. The total cost of alcohol (EUR 3.9 billion) represented 1.9% of GDP in Ireland in 2007 (Byrne, 2010)'


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    Anita Blow wrote: »
    Minimum pricing will do nothing to impact any of this.

    But the international evidence says quite the opposite - as much as the alcohol industry in this fair and pleasant land would contend otherwise. Nobody is saying mimimum pricing is the sole solution, just that it is part of the solution to a complex issue. It suits the people who are opposed to any clampdown on our legalised druglords who constitute the alcohol industry to misrepresent this proposal as the sole solution in order to discredit it. No lobby in this state is as well-funded and well-connected as the alcohol industry is. None.


    Source 1: Minimum unit price ’50 times more effective’ than alcohol floor price (BBC, 2014)

    Source 2: Does minimum pricing reduce alcohol consumption? The experience of a Canadian province.... Conclusion: Increases in minimum prices of alcoholic beverages can substantially reduce alcohol consumption.


  • #85
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.
    bear1 wrote: »
    That's a 6 year old report.
    And it doesn't prove that hundreds are dying on the roads due to it nor does it answer any of the other stuff the poster claimed.
    And the 3 billion is over how long a period?

    Incredible. You're seriously denying the extraordinary financial and social consequences of alcohol abuse for this state. Do you live here? We can be sure you're not a garda, teacher, nurse, doctor, counsellor or social worker if you do. And that you're very young with little experience of working life to see the missed days.

    Alternatively, you know what's happening but prefer the latest right-wing fashion of post-truth all the way.


  • #86
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,032 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    tipp_Gunner wrote: »
    The cost wont go up in the Dáil bar me thinks somehow :)

    MUP won't cause any pub prices to change.


  • #87
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,032 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    punisher5112 wrote: »

    This is just another stealth tax.

    Note that MUP is not a tax.


  • #88
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,032 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    lertsnim wrote: »
    With motorways Northern Ireland is only a few hours away. A day trip to Wales is also nice. Stupid government. Anyone that believes this is a health initiative is in dreamland. Pure tax raising exercise.

    Note that MUP is not a tax.

    Note that the plan is to introduce it at the same time as NI.


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Geuze wrote: »
    Note that MUP is not a tax.

    Ahh and i thought our caring government were out to save us from the evils of alcohol......just the competition to their friends in the vitners association more like


  • #90
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Incredible. You're seriously denying the extraordinary financial and social consequences of alcohol abuse for this state. Do you live here? We can be sure you're not a garda, teacher, nurse, doctor, counsellor or social worker if you do. And that you're very young with little experience of working life to see the missed days.

    Alternatively, you know what's happening but prefer the latest right-wing fashion of post-truth all the way.

    Are you an for real?
    I haven't denied it but you stated hundreds are killed on the roads each year due to drink driving and yet the "source" you quoted said since records began in 1959 and then you took the average.
    You must not be so good at stating facts if that is how you are basing your answers.
    Take 2015 for example.
    166 people died and that's a drop of approx 30 people from 2014 and yet according to you hundreds die per year. Wrong.
    A&e and is Clogged up, are you saying that the only people in a&e are people who have been drinking?
    My age and profession have nothing to do with you or your sensationalist claims but quoting the rsa over a 50 year period is idiotic.
    Be at least somewhat credulous with your facts.
    How much does drinking cost the state compared to smoking? Drug use? What fatalities on the roads can be attributed to drug use?
    This is nothing more than the state being them usual selves. ****ing morons.
    Love how you are saying Im right wing and a trump lover, pointless even debating with you.


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  • #91
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,472 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Can only see this benefitting the vintners, as the price gap will seem less.

    In addition to the vintners, this will greatly help the established brands as now there will be no ability to 'buy' market share. The practice of going in at special introductory prices is a well used tactic not just in alcohol (Lidl & Aldi used it to great effect when they entered the market). Why would I try a new beer if it cost the exact same as a well known brand I have used for years?

    If the government really believe that this is something worthwhile, I have have seen some studies that suggest that it may well be, then I think they need to go the whole hog and legislate for all pricing of alcohol.

    Pubs should not be allowed to discriminate prices based on time of day. This thing of kacking up the price after 11 (or whatever) is simply gouging and shouldn't be allowed and it abusing the monopoly position (in that at that time only licence premises can serve alcohol).

    Unless there is actually specific targets set for reduction in levels of consumption then this no nothing but a gimmick. Give specific % reductions, put someone up who is responsible (I assume the minister) and review and be transparent.


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