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Housing Crisis and Immigration?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    ifElseThen wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=b9_21267543_83_08-11-2017_

    Average no. of applications for family members under the Family Reunification provisions = 20.
    The largest application being for 70 family members. Significant and unquantifiable impacts on the provision of housing, education, welfare supports.

    Minister of State, David Stanton

    holy moly. i wonder how many of these applications are approved.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    beejee wrote: »
    ...

    And this market is going to "cool off" the way the economy had a "soft landing"

    Exactly. Unless we change policy. The stooges who bleat on about 'forever homes' should wake up to the reality that paying rents to private landlords, or buying to use as social housing, and hotels bills are costing more, but 'forever homes' has a snappier ring to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Are immigrants the cause of the housing crisis? No.

    Do immigrants exacerbate the problem? Yes. How could they not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭BeerWolf


    Government encouraging ghettos?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Government encouraging ghettos?

    i dont think they actively encourage ghettos but they facilitate their creation by having absolutely no planning in place for our rapidly increasing immigration levels. No planning whatsoever.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Exactly. Unless we change policy. The stooges who bleat on about 'forever homes' should wake up to the reality that paying rents to private landlords, or buying to use as social housing, and hotels bills are costing more, but 'forever homes' has a snappier ring to it.

    Have you a costing of all these social houses versus money spent on emergency accommodation?

    Bare in mind 1700 “ social houses” houses at a cost of 300k would equate to half a BILLION euro.

    So how many houses are you suggesting and give us the costing and where the money will come from?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    ... canteen chef who likes to practice Irish phrases on everybody who visits the canteen. His daughter started learning Irish in school, so he's learning it to help her with homework. He's from Cameroon...

    -Works to support himself
    -Respectful of native culture and laws
    -Grateful to Ireland for what it offers

    The only three boxes I would ask an immigrant to Ireland to tick.

    The rest who fail this simple test can go jump though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Exactly. Unless we change policy. The stooges who bleat on about 'forever homes' should wake up to the reality that paying rents to private landlords, or buying to use as social housing, and hotels bills are costing more, but 'forever homes' has a snappier ring to it.


    If people were in appropriate accommodation the social housing crisis would be alleviated, at least to a degree. Having elderly people clattering around in 3 and 4 bedroom houses is not helping the situation. Once the kids hit 21 and are not in college the house should be reassigned to a family with non-adult children and the parents moved into a one bedroom apartment.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    There's a shortage of housing. And you reckon building more is not going to solve anything. :confused::confused::confused:

    It probably won't to be fair. If there are 60,000 immigrants coming here annually, you'd need about 20,000 new houses annually to match their demand. And that is just to keep up with immigrants. So yes, the houses we are building just about matches the demand from immigrants.

    The housing problem in Dublin in particular is very complex, too complex for the current government to solve. Its not just as simple as "build more houses".
    It can take at least 5 years to design, get planning permission for and build new houses. The problem is we need those new houses today, not in 5 years. You can't just finger click new houses from thin air.
    Balanced regional development is one area where housing demand can be addressed, but there is zero appetite in government for that, or the Facebooks and Googles who come here. They all want to locate close to Dublin city centre. This of course will cause a massive rise in housing demand in Dublin.

    Immigrants alone aren't the problem though. Overall its a complex issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    beejee wrote: »
    I persisted?! Really now :p

    Just as well you fact checked that insignificant thing, now millions of minds will be walking around with "undefined area of Dorset Street" versus "Dorset street".

    Hallelujah.

    Meanwhile, the topic is about the city. The first post has the link to the prime time program and everyone can watch it, and then decide how important the designation of Dorset Street pertains to the bigger picture and debate.

    The only problem here us that your "insignificant" Dorset Street interpretation IS correct.

    I suspect your correspondent knows this,but if not,then a quick stroll from Granby Row to Binns Bridge and back should confirm those 7% stats.

    Reality can sometimes conflict with the preferred statistics,and many politicians will steadfastly plough on,whilst their electorate scratch their heads in bewilderment...usually however,it's reality that triumphs ;)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,587 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Heres one I dont get. According to the CSO there are 6,084 Nigerians in Ireland. According to World Bank data in 2017 there was $2.1bn of remittances sent out of the Irish economy to people in other countries. Of that $2.1bn almost a quarter ($471 million) was sent in remittances from Ireland to Nigeria. Which means that for every Nigerian here they sent $77,000 back to Nigeria from Ireland which is approx €68,000. Something doesnt add up here, either Nigerians are using Ireland for some sort of a massive banking scam or there are way more Nigerians in Ireland than the 6,084 the CSO thinks. It could be a mix of both scenarios, I find it hard to believe there are only 6,084 Nigerians in Ireland.

    Whatever is going on something is not right about it.

    https://www.pewglobal.org/interactives/remittance-flows-by-country/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Heres one I dont get. According to the CSO there are 6,084 Nigerians in Ireland. According to World Bank data in 2017 there was $2.1bn of remittances sent out of the Irish economy to people in other countries. Of that $2.1bn almost a quarter ($471 million) was sent in remittances from Ireland to Nigeria. Which means that for every Nigerian here they sent $77,000 back to Nigeria from Ireland which is approx €68,000. Something doesnt add up here, either Nigerians are using Ireland for some sort of a massive banking scam or there are way more Nigerians in Ireland than the 6,084 the CSO thinks. It could be a mix of both scenarios, I find it hard to believe there are only 6,084 Nigerians in Ireland.

    Whatever is going on something is not right about it.

    https://www.pewglobal.org/interactives/remittance-flows-by-country/


    Wonder who is currently investigating this?
    Yep, not being touched with a ten foot pole by any Irish government agency/department.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    ... According to the CSO there are 6,084 Nigerians in Ireland. ...

    By their nationality or by the country of origin? Does this number exclude those who got their Irish citizenship?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    BeerWolf wrote: »
    Government encouraging ghettos?

    They've form. Ballymun, Fatima etc.
    Have you a costing of all these social houses versus money spent on emergency accommodation?

    Bare in mind 1700 “ social houses” houses at a cost of 300k would equate to half a BILLION euro.

    So how many houses are you suggesting and give us the costing and where the money will come from?

    Thanks.

    We've covered this. Riddle me this binman, why would anyone in their right mind become a property developer to build houses only to sell at a loss?
    Also, a tenant paying rent, to you, or you subsidising the tenants rent to another landlord, which would you prefer?
    Feel free to run away like you did last time ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Originally Posted by ifElseThen viewpost.gif
    https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/radio...83_08-11-2017_

    Average no. of applications for family members under the Family Reunification provisions = 20.
    The largest application being for 70 family members. Significant and unquantifiable impacts on the provision of housing, education, welfare supports.

    Minister of State, David Stanton
    Recently, the head of a Dublin City Housing group complained about the pressure that asylum reunification was causing to her program. Here is how it works: They would be told to find housing for an asylum seeker whose asylum application was approved. The problem was after they found housing for this one asylum seeker, there would be follow-up requests for 9 or 11 more homes for the relatives of the original asylum seeker. This is the number she used.

    When the Irish government are getting reunification applications as high as 70, then someone is really taking the piss. Are we expected to take in whole villages because one person from there gets asylum in Ireland?
    Imagine the costs involved with this reunification program.

    It is really a surreal world we have in Ireland, and it's only a matter of time before the workers/contributors paying for this fiasco will finally fight back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    beejee wrote: »

    Actually hard to believe. Lots of areas where irish people are in the severe minority, with Dorset street in particular being only 7% irish.


    Yes it is hard to believe. I hope you don't think i am starting to argue. I don't want to do that. You seem a nice polite person. :P

    BUT have you considered that it MIGHT NOT actually be true?

    Most of the housing in Dorset st is terrible anyhow.

    But also we have worse issues in Dorset street THERE IS A SEX SHOP :eek:

    https://www.todayfm.com/news/dublin-adult-shop-ordered-remove-raunchy-window-display-859844

    Also this might be hard to believe but a high percentage of immigrants work in the HSE particularly looking after the elderly.

    Anyway i hope i said that politely. :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    They've form. Ballymun, Fatima etc.



    We've covered this. Riddle me this binman, why would anyone in their right mind become a property developer to build houses only to sell at a loss?
    Also, a tenant paying rent, to you, or you subsidising the tenants rent to another landlord, which would you prefer?
    Feel free to run away like you did last time ;)

    You didn’t answer any of my questions about costing and where the money will come from.

    As usual you write back some point which is totally irrelevant.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    You didn’t answer any of my questions about costing and where the money will come from.

    As usual you write back some point which is totally irrelevant.

    The same place the money for rents we pay to private landlords, the same place as the money we pay for hotels, the same place as the money for broadband, the same place as money for children's hospital overrun incompetence. We've covered this you and I so cut the crap chief.
    How about you answer my questions which are completely relevant? Too busy calling property developers to tell them to 'stop the madness yis are losing a fortune'? Give over.

    'As usual' what? You can't use you stock 'no solutions' reply because I handed you your arse the other week ;)

    why would anyone in their right mind become a property developer to build houses if only to sell at a loss?
    A tenant paying rent, to you, or you subsidising the tenants rent to another landlord, which would you prefer?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    The same place the money for rents we pay to private landlords, the same place as the money we pay for hotels, the same place as the money for broadband, the same place as money for children's hospital overrun incompetence. We've covered this you and I so cut the crap chief.
    How about you answer my questions which are completely relevant? Too busy calling property developers to tell them to 'stop the madness yis are losing a fortune'? Give over.

    'As usual' what? You can't use you stock 'no solutions' reply because I handed you your arse the other week ;)

    why would anyone in their right mind become a property developer to build houses if only to sell at a loss?
    A tenant paying rent, to you, or you subsidising the tenants rent to another landlord, which would you prefer?

    You handed me my arse the other week???? When??

    You didn’t answer my questions on how many houses a costing and where the money will come from.

    You say the rent we pay landlords.

    That was how much last year?

    You think that will cover a massive social housing build costing billions?

    Building a house for 300k and a tenant paying 50 a week if they even pay it is never gonna work financially.

    So yeah I’d rather we kept paying rent and not spend billions for people to get discount housing because their ”entitled” to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    You handed me my arse the other week???? When??

    You didn’t answer my questions on how many houses a costing and where the money will come from.

    You say the rent we pay landlords.

    That was how much last year?

    You think that will cover a massive social housing build costing billions?

    Building a house for 300k and a tenant paying 50 a week if they even pay it is never gonna work financially.

    So yeah I’d rather we kept paying rent and not spend billions for people to get discount housing because their ”entitled” to it.

    You claimed I was just giving out and never have any solutions and I posted a link where I'd given you solutions previously. In others words you got caught out waffling. Now we've had this exact conversation a number of times and you persist in posting the same nonsense like it's never been discussed.
    Your question; no matter what it costs to build, it's cheaper than buying built from market. That's a cold fact wheels.

    When you own the house and are recouping weekly rent based on income, (this is about everyone not just the Indo chancer of the week), a rent you set. You are getting money coming in and you own a house. Paying out rents is only maintaining the problem and at a high rent cost.
    Right now we are even buying houses and then renting them out as social housing anyway. So it's happening just not in the most cost effective way. Building is cheaper than buying. That's a fact, you continue to cut your nose to spite your face. Costly mind.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    You claimed I was just giving out and never have any solutions and I posted a link where I'd given you solutions previously. In others words you got caught out waffling. Now we've had this exact conversation a number of times and you persist in posting the same nonsense like it's never been discussed.
    Your question; no matter what it costs to build, it's cheaper than buying built from market. That's a cold fact wheels.

    When you own the house and are recouping weekly rent based on income, (this is about everyone not just the Indo chancer of the week), a rent you set. You are getting money coming in and you own a house. Paying out rents is only maintaining the problem and at a high rent cost.
    Right now we are even buying houses and then renting them out as social housing anyway. So it's happening just not in the most cost effective way. Building is cheaper than buying. That's a fact, you continue to cut your nose to spite your face. Costly mind.

    Look we’re never gonna agree.

    Why did the councils sell off all the social housing they had?

    Because it was too costly to keep them.

    But you think we go again with billions and it will be somehow different.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Look we’re never gonna agree.

    Why did the councils sell off all the social housing they had?

    Because it was too costly to keep them.

    But you think we go again with billions and it will be somehow different.

    No. Greed. They saw the Celtic Tiger and jumped in feet first. They sold off social housing only to create more out in the burbs, then sell off the land to private developers.

    Building social housing is the only way to go, but there's less private profit to be made.

    On your point about 'entitled'.
    You do not want them building social housing to give to people.
    They are however, buying houses for social housing to give to people.
    I'm looking for the best value is all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭vriesmays


    Building social housing is the only way to go, but there's less private profit to be made.
    Much existing social housing are in arrears. Why would the councils build more.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    vriesmays wrote: »
    Much existing social housing are in arrears. Why would the councils build more.

    Because he said so...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    I really don't think you understand all of what I am saying. The freedom of space is a burden not something my mother nor her neighbours want. The constantly complain that it is way too much to maintain. It isn't just the houses either the gardens are too much.
    As most older houses are larger and if back in family use those families get the luxury of larger houses.
    I dont see how you don't see how this is not a priority. It would be quick to do, reduce congestion, better use of local amenities with no need to build more, provide extra money for pensions etc...

    This is not small scale stuff but a huge amount of housing stock in Dublin. The majority of houses built from 50s up to the 80s in Dublin are under occupied. That is a huge amount of property. Even if it is only a small portion of these houses it could be easily 10% increase in the city's capacity.

    Couldn't agree more. There's a serious lack of forward thinking here from our government. There are a huge amount of pensioners who would downsize tomorrow if it was an option in an area where they can walk to the local shops/post office etc. or even get a bus but there just isn't that option.

    My own parents are an example. They live in a 4 bedroom ex council house that they bought but it is just a burden now to them. We've had to get a stair lift and adapted bathroom built for them to use the house and they still find it a lot to keep up.

    A few years ago there was talk of building housing for the elderly which was a gated community with emergency call bells etc. and they would have jumped at the chance but it never happened so they're stuck where they are.

    They can't go to an anonymous apartment building where the lift might break down so what options do they have?

    There's a serious lack of one and two bedroom units all over Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    There was 24 social houses built down the end of my row, 20 of them are foreign national families who like deco and Jacinta would sleep on the floor if work was in the bed.

    I don`t think the contributors are the problem

    Total lie. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    vriesmays wrote: »
    Much existing social housing are in arrears. Why would the councils build more.

    The same people will be living in homes the council buy.
    Maybe they should fix the system?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Because he said so...

    Way to be an arse wheels ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    Is there a more general thread to discuss the housing crisis? Have been passed on for a loan despite having every single last document they require and meeting all their requirements, as they are constantly coming up with more and more obstacles. Are only rich people entitled to get houses, to be able to live? Does Ireland hate the working class so deeply?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,589 ✭✭✭corks finest


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Its the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about because you would be branded a racist or far right. Year to April 2018 immigration counted for 50% increase in our population compared to year to April 2017.

    UK got sick of it, we will eventually....
    I'm sick of it,call me what you will, Paddy neeeds to look after Paddy end of


This discussion has been closed.
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